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[Dev] Corsair Adjustments
Ragnarok.Afania
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-02-09 00:31:48
Come'on SE, make use of the lore!
I dunno. Serious cor's should have a Armageddon Death Penalty
Death penalty is hand cannon, and single barrel.
By volkom 2012-02-09 00:32:33
Quote: Come'on SE, make use of the lore! I dunno. Serious cor's should have a Armageddon Death Penalty
Death penalty is cannon, and single barrel. still a pirate weapon and not some alien tentacle in the shape of a laser gun
Bismarck.Sylow
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-09 00:34:04
Well, COR should never be in the same Damage tier as well geared DDs (SAM, MNK, WAR, DRK) because that would be way to broken. As long as they can give out good buffs and hold their own damage wise, they are fine really.
Say if a COR buff will make SAM WAR MNK DRK 20% stronger(I'm not sure the actual number), but COR itself can only do 50% of those DD does, then it's not worth a pt spot.
4 * 1.2 + 0.5 = 5.3 (with cor as you described)
5 * 1.0 = 5.0 (without cor as you described)
So if SAM WAR MNK DRK does 10000 dmg without buff, and 12000 dmg with buff,
DD DD COR doesn't beat DD DD DD
No, not with 2 DD + COR vs. 3 DD, 2.9 vs. 3.0
For some reason I read 4x DD +COR vs.5x DD :P
Bismarck.Sylow
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-09 00:35:28
anyway what we can take from this is that the more melees you're buffing, the less damage you need to do to be useful!
[+]
By volkom 2012-02-09 00:38:51
but just giving buffs makes you useful
[+]
Phoenix.Sehachan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-02-09 05:56:52
After the recent responses about gallant's roll and the tp thing I'm just sure they don't care to listen at all.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Neisan
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 387
By Quetzalcoatl.Neisan 2012-02-09 06:30:12
Still haven't said who the flying flip asked for a defense roll. I honestly didn't believe people playing cor could be -that- stupid.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-02-09 07:24:24
I've seen one serious Corsair with Death Penalty. One that was a useless Japanese cor/whm twit. And that's all I've seen.
Mythics are just ridiculously prohibitive. If the upcoming Nyzul update fixes that, I will work on a Death Penalty myself. I’m also not 100% sure, but – at least at this time – I believe Armageddon pumps out more damage than Death Penalty even under ideal circumstances for Death Penalty. Could be wrong there, though. The math I saw on that was back at like 85-90.
Edit: My point being, I reject the notion that if you're serious about corsair, you need to have Death Penalty. I very much want a Death Penalty...but unless you have nothing to do with your time but play FFXI, it's not realistic. And I doubt there are people out there significantly more dedicated to the job than I am.
Phoenix.Sehachan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-02-09 07:38:39
I can only think of situations where Wildfire is useless but not all magic damage(fire resistan mobs). Then you can use Leaden Salute to put up aftermath, ride some good tp phase and focus on Ice/Thunder shots for the 50% boosted QD and then spam Last Stand or keep using Leaden.
It's quite a difficult situation to be in and even in one where magic dmg is completely useless Last Stand will be stronger on Arma, though tp phase would favour DP.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-02-09 07:48:53
I can only think of situations where Wildfire is useless but not all magic damage(fire resistan mobs). Then you can use Leaden Salute to put up aftermath, ride some good tp phase and focus on Ice/Thunder shots for the 50% boosted QD and then spam Last Stand or keep using Leaden. It's quite a difficult situation to be in and even in one where magic dmg is completely useless Last Stand will be stronger on Arma, though tp phase would favour DP.
Point being...the situations where Death Penalty would shine are few and far between.
Even the fact that Dark Shot does not do damage (at this time) draws away from Death Penalty because the shot you'd use to boost Leaden Salute's damage would do no additional DPS there.
All this said, I'd still leap at the oppurtunity to have one for the thematic context. We'll see what happens when they adjust Nyzul.
Ragnarok.Afania
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-02-09 17:12:39
Point being...the situations where Death Penalty would shine are few and far between.
Even the fact that Dark Shot does not do damage (at this time) draws away from Death Penalty because the shot you'd use to boost Leaden Salute's damage would do no additional DPS there.
All this said, I'd still leap at the oppurtunity to have one for the thematic context. We'll see what happens when they adjust Nyzul.
Even worse, dark shot need to dispel something first to boost leaden salute or else it will have no effect.
If SE can change dark shot so it can do some dmg, after save TP nerf(therefore longer TP phrase that favors higher DPS gun) DP may have more chance to catch up with Arma.
Edit: My point being, I reject the notion that if you're serious about corsair, you need to have Death Penalty. I very much want a Death Penalty...but unless you have nothing to do with your time but play FFXI, it's not realistic. And I doubt there are people out there significantly more dedicated to the job than I am.
I'm pretty causal, but still worked on one even before Arma came out. Just gonna spend 5 years on it instead of 1 year like hardcore players XD
But I'm a COR fanatic, 95% of time I play this job(at least after save TP roll added I played it 95% of time, not sure if I'd still play it this much after nerf), and 95% of time I grind gear for this job(5% of time I grind gear for my 2nd job BLU .-.) If I don't have a long time goal like this I wouldn't have a reason and motivation to keep playing FFXI anymore.
Or more like, I don't really "rush" for it(and other gears in general) as a causal player, just do it slowly when I log on everyday.
Although it's extremely frustrated to find alex on the market at this time. I finished other requirements long time ago, but just finding alex s a pain in the ***, with 100000 other ppl building Mythic on my server.
Also VERY hard to find ppl wanting to do salvage.
It's actually pretty doable if you can trio box and farm salvage, since the hardest part about salvage now is to enter with 3 ppl. But I don't want to spend nearly 40$ a month on a vid game for rushing pixel items, so this option is out for me.
And considering how incredibly useful Arma+WF is at this point of time, I also disagree that you'd need one to be serious. IMO serious CORs that really cared about performance should do 99 Arma instead, not Mythic. I'm just doing DP for the sake of obsession. Tbh sometimes I wish I'd just drop mythic project and spend the gil on 95 Arma instead, for the sake of better performance. But I can't really just stop there since I got A LOT of help during the process....free/cheap alex, assault/nyzul/salvage static, many different Einherjar LS/group(since Einherjar LS/group often die in 2 months..). For me it's a lot of good memory with many different ppl and friends, that getting Mythic is not really a process of pimping yourself anymore(it never was), but rather the end of a long journey of all those time I've spent with ppl in those events.
I really hope SE can make this gun either a lot stronger than it is now, or make it has other supportive abilities(like how empy harp gets 3 songs, or mythic dagger increases song duration etc), so those who helped me during the process can get large benefit from it, like how you'd get a lot of benefit from friend's Aegis, or empy harp, or Ukon. All those weapons provided more game changing and bigger boost to their jobs, I wish DP is a weapon like that.
I guess finish it or not, I'll just stay gimp then. I'm a COR fanatic, but not hardcore/elite/serious. And unlike hardcore/elite players who is always the best, fanatics are blind, and makes dumb choices.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-02-09 19:30:41
I've always explained it to my linkshell as such:
"Corsair is a job I play; a pirate is what I am."
I've been doing the pirate thing since before MMOs and before the PotC movies...all of that. I was a pirate for Halloween every year as a little kid, ffs.
The "fantasy" version of the pirate has just always been something that appeals to me. Then again, my character has a back story, too, that extends prior to FFXI. So...eh. What can I say. I've always been a big RP dork. Ramyrez was a pirate long before SE introduced the Corsair job.
I want to make a Death Penalty, but it's just never been a feesible option. I might give it a go with the new update. Maybe. But Alex is still gonna be priced through the roof as it becomes more available and everyone makes them for the novelty of it now. But we'll see.
Bottom line is that it is, literally, a badass hand canon. Fun stuff there.
Bismarck.Sylow
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-09 19:34:04
I've always explained it to my linkshell as such:
"Corsair is a job I play; a pirate is what I am."
I've been doing the pirate thing since before MMOs and before the PotC movies...all of that. I was a pirate for Halloween every year as a little kid, ffs.
The "fantasy" version of the pirate has just always been something that appeals to me. Then again, my character has a back story, too, that extends prior to FFXI. So...eh. What can I say. I've always been a big RP dork. Ramyrez was a pirate long before SE introduced the Corsair job.
I want to make a Death Penalty, but it's just never been a feesible option. I might give it a go with the new update. Maybe. But Alex is still gonna be priced through the roof as it becomes more available and everyone makes them for the novelty of it now. But we'll see.
Bottom line is that it is, literally, a badass hand canon. Fun stuff there.
You're one of my favorite people on Bismarck.
[+]
Bismarck.Ramyrez
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-02-09 22:05:32
{/blush}
*cough*
*Ahem.*
Of course I am!
01-03-2012 02:28 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
It’s been quite some time since we announced that we would be revamping corsair’s Phantom Roll effects, but I have some additional information about the planned changes.
※Currently these features are in-development and testing and are subject to change.
As long as there are no major development/testing problems, we are planning to introduce these changes on the test server middle or late January.
As usual, please let us know your feedback! | |
01-05-2012 02:06 PM | Rukkirii | Community Rep | |
| Odin.Mirabelle said: One question about the new Gallant's roll. Are the values a flat amount of -DT (like phalanx) or a percentage (like -DT gear)? The damage reduction from Gallant's Roll is not a percentage, the reduction value is the number itself. (Maximum 30 damage)
In case you didn't know, you can stack this with Phalanx making it possible to increase the amount of damage reduced.
In regards to those of you asking about a third roll, we haven't solidified a specific adjustment timing so I don't have any new information for you guys at the moment. But when I do, you bet I'll be giving you guys an update! | |
01-11-2012 05:54 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings all
I have some additional info on corsair adjustments based on some questions from the Japanese forum to share with you all.
Quote: Though Drachen Roll gives magic attack bonus to pets, this does not affect wyvern’s attack breath, and in the case of battles that are dependent on a pet’s magic attack, a dragoon will not be in the party for the bonus. In order to allow for better use of the job bonuses, we are currently looking into swapping the stats on Drachen Roll and Puppet Roll. We are making preparations so that this can be implemented onto the test server along with the other roll adjustments.
[Pre-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
[Post-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Quote: Would it be possible to edit the effect of Blitzer’s Roll?
Currently, if you cast Blitzer’s Roll, the amount of TP gained is reduced and if attackers use store TP it’s not really possible to get the full benefit. Could you edit this so that the effect does not affect TP gain and reduces attack delay like Haste and March? The effect of Blitzer’s Roll is the same as Martial Arts as it reduces the attack duration, so the amount of TP gained is affected. We do not plan on changing the effect to make it similar to Haste/March as these spells have an influence on magic.
Quote: Can you make it possible to cast rolls on a single party member? It could have a 15 second recast and no Double-up possibility. If we had this, it would make it possible to use all of the hard to use pet rolls, etc. It would also be possible to put the new Gallant’s Roll on the tank only. In regards to single target rolls, I will address this and the concept of corsair as a set.
Corsairs have the ability to support party members with their rolls similar to bards; however, while bards spend most of their time during battle supporting party members with songs, corsairs don’t spend the same amount of time on support and were made to have a surplus of time so they can attack. This is why the effect duration and recast time on rolls have been set to be longer than songs.
While it is definitely possible to look into single target effects in order to effectively use rolls, the functionality of corsair would most likely be largely changed due to the increased frequency of roll usage, so we would like to continue to look into this while carefully considering whether it is really appropriate for the corsair style that we envisioned.
Quote: The enhanced cure potency for cures received is good with waltzes too, right? Unfortunately the effect from Healer’s Roll will not enhance the potency of waltzes.
While they are similar effects, the stats are separate and this is the roll for white mages. | |
01-18-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Dearest corsairs,
Just wanted to deliver some feedback that was being discussed on the Japanese forums in regards to Quick Draw and Rolls.
Quote: Personally, I would like to focus on Phantom Roll + Quick Draw + Weapon Skills.
(With the current system for Phantom Roll)
What is currently severely lacking is the number of charges for Quick Draw.
I would like this adjusted so that it would be possible to pull off something like the following rotation: Roll→2 Draws → Roll → 2 Draws…→Weapon Skill → Roll…
As such, I would like the number of charges for Quick Draw to be increased to about 6. Increasing the number of charges will lead to an increase in damage dealt over the same time span, so this is something we have to look into very carefully.
Since Quick Draw is an ability, it can be used quickly and there is not much down time, which means that it is more convenient than ranged attacks and it is possible to deal as much damage as a weapon skill, based on how it is used. If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers.
If we do end up increasing the number of charges, we would have to nerf its effects to maintain balance. Whether or not it would be worth nerfing the effects to increase the number of charges is an issue that we are investigating with the help of your feedback.
In addition, we plan on adding enfeebling effects to Quick Draw in the enfeebling spell adjustments we have planned, so please look forward to these changes as well. | |
01-19-2012 03:30 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep | |
| [dev1069] Corsair Job Adjustments
*This content is currently in development and may differ in the release version.
| |
02-02-2012 04:30 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| As a result of the development team’s investigation as well as feedback we received, we will be once again changing the effect of Gallant’s Roll from “damage reduction” to “increased defense.”
This roll’s defense increase effect will increase a character’s defense by a percentage, so characters with already high defense will benefit largely from this.
As a different idea we looked into “physical damage reduction,” but the effect itself increased by a percentage, which made it not possible to make the effect values very large thus creating the concern that the roll itself wouldn’t be too useful. Paladin’s who have a wealth of damage reduction gear would cap out too easily and attackers/back-line jobs would become disproportionate by having this along with other high defense stats, so we determined this to be an unrealistic route. | |
02-08-2012 05:55 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.
As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.
In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.
Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.
Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.
For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.
Setup
Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)
Results
Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage
Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference. | |
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