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White House will regulate cow flatulence
Shiva.Rucks
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By Shiva.Rucks 2014-04-01 22:26:56
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Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-04-02 09:32:07
....
Anyhow, serious question for those who know: how are cattle ranched these days? I presume we can't lock them in cube-shaped cages the size of a full-grown steer the way we do with chickens, but would it be feasible to, say, cover over at least some pasture and barn areas to collect the methane liberated prior to manure collection and processing? .... Let me briefly describe a modern dairy operation.
Hundreds to a few thousand cows. they all get milked twice a day and the milking goes on 24/7/365. The assorted covered cow accessible spaces can hold maybe 15% - 20% of the herd.
There are perhaps 50 different ways to raise beef cattle. Most beef cattle never have a roof over their heads until its slaughterhouse time.
You might want to open a newspaper or go to a news website once in a while. please, do elaborate. Oh please don't ask him to do that.
.... inb4 somebody twisting this into a Republican bashing thread In case you didn't notice the white house is in Democratic hands....
Fenrir.Atheryn
サーバ: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-04-02 09:49:00
As the old saying goes, light a match!
Problem solved. Might not work out so well for the cows, but you can't win 'em all.
The cows in Germany apparently already tried it, with minor consequences.
Source
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-04-02 09:51:53
Oh please don't ask him to do that.
I have masochistic tendencies, I apologize.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-02 16:04:37
Having been a small dairy farmer I find this all quite humorous.
My cows would be out on pasture 95% of the time during spring,summer and fall and are fed grain twice a day when milking.
My cows live 8-18yrs and have little need of Antibiotics.
Mega-dairy cows are under a roof being fed corn silage mixed with the minerals they need, to produce as much milk as possible. They get milked 3-5 times per day to maximize profit because they only live 4-5yrs max! They are given Antibiotics regularly and if they have not already dead by 5 yrs old, they are shipped to slaughter and the (meat if thats what you want to call it) is sent to fast food joints. Ever wonder why fast food was cheap?
The humorous part of all this is, my style of dairy farming has been pretty much eradicated by mega-dairys and government regulation meant to curb the horrible ***coming out of them.
The people screwed the most is people like you all "the consumers", who have no idea wtf is going on and most likely have never even seen a cow in your life.
サーバ: Shiva
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Posts: 3618
By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 16:24:17
Having been a small dairy farmer I find this all quite humorous.
My cows would be out on pasture 95% of the time during spring,summer and fall and are fed grain twice a day when milking.
My cows live 8-18yrs and have little need of Antibiotics.
Mega-dairy cows are under a roof being fed corn silage mixed with the minerals they need, to produce as much milk as possible. They get milked 3-5 times per day to maximize profit because they only live 4-5yrs max! They are given Antibiotics regularly and if they have not already dead by 5 yrs old, they are shipped to slaughter and the (meat if thats what you want to call it) is sent to fast food joints. Ever wonder why fast food was cheap?
The humorous part of all this is, my style of dairy farming has been pretty much eradicated by mega-dairys and government regulation meant to curb the horrible ***coming out of them.
The people screwed the most is people like you all "the consumers", who have no idea wtf is going on and most likely have never even seen a cow in your life. Interesting commentary and important points...
But what does it have to do with the proposed regulation?
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-02 16:41:19
Having been a small dairy farmer I find this all quite humorous.
My cows would be out on pasture 95% of the time during spring,summer and fall and are fed grain twice a day when milking.
My cows live 8-18yrs and have little need of Antibiotics.
Mega-dairy cows are under a roof being fed corn silage mixed with the minerals they need, to produce as much milk as possible. They get milked 3-5 times per day to maximize profit because they only live 4-5yrs max! They are given Antibiotics regularly and if they have not already dead by 5 yrs old, they are shipped to slaughter and the (meat if thats what you want to call it) is sent to fast food joints. Ever wonder why fast food was cheap?
The humorous part of all this is, my style of dairy farming has been pretty much eradicated by mega-dairys and government regulation meant to curb the horrible ***coming out of them.
The people screwed the most is people like you all "the consumers", who have no idea wtf is going on and most likely have never even seen a cow in your life. Interesting commentary and important points...
But what does it have to do with the proposed regulation?
It has everything to do with the proposed regulation. When things like this are passed they affect small and mega the same. What people do not understand is the Mega are heavily subsidized by the government. Long story short the government is gonna fine the mega-farms, then turn around and give the money back in the form of a subsidy. The small dairy's (The few that still exists) will be once again crushed by government regulation. While the government and mega-dairys continue on with the massive grip they have on your food supply.
P.S. This is happening in every single form of business one way or the other. Its not hard to recognize once you know what to look for.
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サーバ: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 16:49:58
Ok, valid point.
So do you have no concern for the environmental future of the planet or are you simply protesting that mega-corporations are in bed with government? Put another way, if you were asked to do something about your cattle's methane expulsions (which, for the 40th time, should be a source of profit/income over the medium-to-long term), would you do it, or would you refuse to by protesting the corruption that is grinding down your personal business regardless of what form it takes?
Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-04-02 16:52:24
I guess I have never seen a truly mega dairy Alti.
Every one I have seen has the cows mostly outside when not being milked although many never see much pasturage.
Biggest ones out here run a few thousand cows.
So I guess in the more industrial setting you describe they could collect some methane through floor vents.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-02 17:26:09
Ok, valid point.
So do you have no concern for the environmental future of the planet or are you simply protesting that mega-corporations are in bed with government? Put another way, if you were asked to do something about your cattle's methane expulsions (which, for the 40th time, should be a source of profit/income over the medium-to-long term), would you do it, or would you refuse to by protesting the corruption that is grinding down your personal business regardless of what form it takes?
There is absolutely nothing that can be done for cow farts. (lmao)
I don't know if they are using the cow fart thing for sensationalism or if the people writing this article are just completely stupid. Cow ***in storage pools is what his should be about, its the only thing that can be controlled. The bigger the farm the bigger the pools, I've seen olympic size cow ***pools that more than likely produce quite a bit of methane.
Small dairy's that have cows on pasture produce far less ***per cow, and do not require a storage pool because they don't deal with liquid ***.
Mega-Dairy's have the cows on massive concrete floors that drain into storage pools, then it is syphoned out and spread onto fields. THEN it rains a drains into the rivers, lakes, and streams!
I have heard of a new type of storage for this type of thing, instead of pools and spreading. The liquid ***is put into a high heated system and comes out dry and sterile. Then its used for bedding.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-02 17:31:34
There's been at least a few farms that have actually turned the manure into an energy source for the farm, however it is dangerous and requires a good deal of equipment/monitoring to do, however it actually would be used as a power source.
I'm not saying this is the answer, and it would need to be examined for it's cost and environmental applications, but it would be a potential solution to just storing the ***, literally.
I believe there was a dirty jobs thing on it or something.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-04-02 17:36:57
There is absolutely nothing that can be done for cow farts. Not true. I can't find anything specific on this proposed regulation, but I did find some strategies proposed by Canadian scientists that look to reduce emissions from the cow itself. Feeding Strategies
So far, several feeding strategies show promise. For example, increasing the level of dietary fat by feeding a diet of crushed oilseeds (sunflower seed, canola seed or flaxseed) or dried corn distillers grain reduced the energy lost as methane by up to twenty percent. Similar reductions in methane were also seen when other fat sources, such as whole cottonseed, plant oils, and some ethanol byproducts were added to the diet. Overall methane was lowered by 5 percentage units for each percentage of crude fat added to the dietary dry matter.
Adding more grain in the ration also reduced methane emissions, but the scope for increasing the amount of grain fed to ruminants is fairly limited as this ignores the importance of ruminants in converting fibrous feeds, unsuitable for direct human consumption, to the high quality protein sources milk and meat. Diets based on corn grain, compared with barley grain, reduce methane emissions, as does feeding high quality forages such as corn silage and alfalfa. Ionophores, antimicrobials that target the ruminal bacterial population and increase production efficiency, also reduce methane emissions at least for a short time.
Feed additives
The team is also examining feed additives, including plant extracts (condensed tannins, saponins, essential oils) and rumen modifiers (yeast, bacterial direct fed microbials, and enzymes). In a recent study, they supplemented the cattle diet with commercial active dried yeast products including a new product selected on its ability to improve fiber digestion in the rumen. This combination was found to reduce methane by six percent and demonstrates the possibility of developing yeast products to improve cattle digestion.
Other research teams in New Zealand and in Australia are also exploring innovative ways of eliminating the microbes in the rumen that produce the methane, such as vaccines. This research is expected to lead to practical solutions that can be used to reduce methane from beef and dairy cattle in the future.
Feed conversion efficiency
Because methane production increases as the animal eats more feed, improving feed conversion efficiency, the amount of feed consumed per kilogram of milk produced or weight gained, decreases methane output. Diets that are more highly digestible lower the amount of methane emitted per product produced. It may also be possible to breed more efficient cattle that produce less methane. Researchers in Canada, Australia and New Zealand are currently evaluating methane production in beef and dairy cattle selected for high- versus low-feed conversion efficiency.
http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/science-and-innovation/science-publications-and-resources/technical-factsheets/reducing-methane-emissions-from-livestock/?id=1305058576718TLDR; the same strategies you use to keep yourself from farting excessively can be utilized on cows.
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Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
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Posts: 11131
By Garuda.Chanti 2014-04-02 17:50:04
There's been at least a few farms that have actually turned the manure into an energy source for the farm, however it is dangerous and requires a good deal of equipment/monitoring to do, however it actually would be used as a power source.
I'm not saying this is the answer, and it would need to be examined for it's cost and environmental applications, but it would be a potential solution to just storing the ***, literally.... Mostly objecting to the bolded part.
This is OLD tech. In the hippy back to the land '60s there was a big push to alternative energy. One of the things investigated was methane converters. They found WWII era info on them and took it from there.
Things have improved over the last 50 years though and with current mechanical and biological advances the process had been shortened from 30 days to 15 or 18. Its flow through and the effluent is STILL great fertilizer.
Manure/Methane Digester - Minnesota Conservation Funding Guide
And a home made one:
I so suck at linking Utube....
Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-04-02 18:00:08
.... if you were asked to do something about your cattle's methane expulsions (which, for the 40th time, should be a source of profit/income over the medium-to-long term).... Yes it should be. But a farmer who runs his cows on pasturage produces less cow gas and can't collect the poo which drys quite rapidly into cow pies and doesn't produce methane like cow poo in those collection pools.
....
I don't know if they are using the cow fart thing for sensationalism or if the people writing this article are just completely stupid. Cow ***in storage pools is what his should be about, its the only thing that can be controlled. The bigger the farm the bigger the pools, I've seen olympic size cow ***pools that more than likely produce quite a bit of methane. Cow poo in storage pools is a whole different problem that needs to be addressed too.
Quote: I have heard of a new type of storage for this type of thing, instead of pools and spreading. The liquid ***is put into a high heated system and comes out dry and sterile. Then its used for bedding. Why not fertilizer? Does it burn the nitrogen out?
サーバ: Shiva
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Posts: 3618
By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 18:01:23
There is absolutely nothing that can be done for cow farts. (lmao) You're latching onto the sensational language (people apparently like fart jokes -- I'm not one of them *shrug*) rather than the important bit.
You also ignored my question. Since your kind of farming produces fewer emissions, this should be the perfect time to step up and say, "Look at me, I produce better milk, better beef, I release fewer greenhouse gases, AND I economically convert my waste products into clean energy!" As in, this regulation could be used to better yourself. Or you could whine about gub'mint controlling your life and selling you out to big business. I'm sure that'll help, too.
YouTube Video Placeholder
For future reference: enclose the URL in square-bracket youtube tags (same as how you use square-brackets around i to italicize) and make sure the URL is http:// instead of https://
Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-04-02 18:13:46
I push the YouTube button, I insert the link, it comes up tilt...
By fonewear 2014-04-02 18:14:37
You are signed into youtube that is where the https comes from. I've done it a million times.
サーバ: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 18:16:38
I push the YouTube button, I insert the link, it comes up tilt... Yeah, unfortunately you need to edit the URL to remove the "s" from https:// Youtube videos won't embed from a secure URL. No clue why being logged into Youtube needs to be secured, though.
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
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Posts: 11131
By Garuda.Chanti 2014-04-02 18:17:07
Got it and thanks Fone and Ono.
Waitaminuet Fone. You aren't supposed to make sense. You are slipping.
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By fonewear 2014-04-02 18:17:48
No problem. It frustrates me too. I forget about the "s".
By Altimaomega 2014-04-02 18:28:43
Quote: I have heard of a new type of storage for this type of thing, instead of pools and spreading. The liquid ***is put into a high heated system and comes out dry and sterile. Then its used for bedding. Why not fertilizer? Does it burn the nitrogen out?[/quote]
Yeah, its completely sterile but using it for bedding is a huge plus for cost saving in the long run.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-02 18:33:39
There is absolutely nothing that can be done for cow farts. (lmao) You're latching onto the sensational language (people apparently like fart jokes -- I'm not one of them *shrug*) rather than the important bit.
You also ignored my question. Since your kind of farming produces fewer emissions, this should be the perfect time to step up and say, "Look at me, I produce better milk, better beef, I release fewer greenhouse gases, AND I economically convert my waste products into clean energy!" As in, this regulation could be used to better yourself. Or you could whine about gub'mint controlling your life and selling you out to big business. I'm sure that'll help, too.
Hey thats a great idea, wonder why I never thought of that! Ohhh yea thats right because its illegal for me to sell my milk unless its to a dairy plant....................... Well I guess I could build my own plant and distribute my milk that way, I'll just need to buy 1000 more cows build another barn put in a storage pool... wait a minute ><
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サーバ: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 18:38:14
Yes, be bitchy. It really demonstrates what your priority actually is.
I am not a dairy farmer. I do not know what kind of dairy farm you run. If you don't sell milk, I assume you do sell beef. So my point stands, but you're going to wander off on a tangent because you're not actually interested in doing anything but whinging about how big business and the government want your blood and your first-born and your soul.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-02 18:47:18
Yes, be bitchy. It really demonstrates what your priority actually is.
I am not a dairy farmer. I do not know what kind of dairy farm you run. If you don't sell milk, I assume you do sell beef. So my point stands, but you're going to wander off on a tangent because you're not actually interested in doing anything but whinging about how big business and the government want your blood and your first-born and your soul.
Thats me being sarcastic because you have no clue what your talking about. I didnt wander off on anything it is ILLEGAL for me to sell milk to ANYONE besides a DAIRY PROCESSING PLANT please learn how to read.
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サーバ: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 18:54:41
And that's not my *** point. Which is patently obvious to anyone who can read.
Swear to heaven and earth, some of the people on this forum dodge so constantly that I suspect they're actually Thief players using their SP.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-02 19:00:48
And that's not my *** point. Which is patently obvious to anyone who can read.
Swear to heaven and earth, some of the people on this forum dodge so constantly that I suspect they're actually Thief players using their SP.
WTF are you talking about I answered your question, what did I dodge? [/quote] Swear to heaven and earth, some of the people on this forum dodge so constantly that I suspect they're actually Thief players using their SP.[/quote]
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サーバ: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 19:18:23
The question is not about whether or not you can *** sell milk. The question is whether you're going to either use the opportunity presented by the new regulation to promote your business or instead whine about how it will destroy your business because the government and mega-corporations are determined to destroy you.
Additionally, I've asked two or three times if you have any concern about being environmentally cleaner, as is the goal of the legislation, and you've said nothing on that count.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-02 19:30:39
The question is not about whether or not you can *** sell milk. The question is whether you're going to either use the opportunity presented by the new regulation to promote your business or instead whine about how it will destroy your business because the government and mega-corporations are determined to destroy you.
Additionally, I've asked two or three times if you have any concern about being environmentally cleaner, as is the goal of the legislation, and you've said nothing on that count.
You must be to wrapped up in yourself to understand that, in order to take this "opportunity presented by the new regulation to promote my business" I would have to BECOME A MEGA-DAIRY in order to afford it, thus DEFEATING the opportunity.
As for my concern about the environment and the goal of this. I think Mega-Dairy's are a huge environmental problem. However,
I'm positive w/o doubt that this legislation has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with money and control.
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サーバ: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-02 19:37:52
Yeah, see, you have in no way explained why you'd need to expand your business. Telling me "It's illegal for me to sell milk!" does not translate because I'm not a dairy farmer. You're very bad at making yourself understood. So try really, really hard to take more than 3 seconds bashing your face into your keyboard and explicate why your farm, which produces a higher-quality product at a lower environmental cost, would need to expand in order to promote itself.
Your knee-jerk, talk-radio paranoia in regards to government action is noted and disagreed with. Maybe next time I won't have to ask three times.
Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-02 19:46:06
or instead whine about how it will destroy your business because the government and mega-corporations are determined to destroy you.
You must be to wrapped up in yourself to understand that, in order to take this "opportunity presented by the new regulation to promote my business" I would have to BECOME A MEGA-DAIRY in order to afford it, thus DEFEATING the opportunity.
Chalk 1 up to mega corporations destroying the little guy.
No, this is not a fart joke although it may sound like one.
White House looks to regulate cow flatulence as part of climate agenda
Quote: As part of its plan to reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, the Obama administration is targeting the dairy industry to reduce methane emissions in their operations. I have NO idea how they will handle this udderly daunting feat.
I know somewhat about cows and biology, a bit about methane, and some engineering. Personally I think its going to take something like cyborging cows to do this. Not that our modern dairy Holsteins aren't practically artificial life anyway.
Or maybe engineering gut microbes to utilize that methane.
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