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Liberator 119 worth it?
 Cerberus.Kylos
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4310
By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-06-01 08:20:21
It is my favorite model.
Apoc looking like something out of a bad hip-hop video wielded by some ruffian wearing a clock too large.
Oh I know, it's just so bling bling. I don't have one, but one day I might just get it so I can be a gangsta DRK.
Edit: And yeah, it took me a long time to decide whether to do Rag or Apoc, not good at commiting to anything really, but when I do I will go all out for it.
 Phoenix.Urteil
By Phoenix.Urteil 2014-06-01 08:21:33
Get it so you can unlock Catastrophe in the future.
Prepare now.
Fenrir.Jinjo
VIP
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2269
By Fenrir.Jinjo 2014-06-01 08:49:38
Additionally, I almost never use DRK (I think I got to a total of once in the past year, it was a Ceizak delve run), but I enjoy switching to it to stand around in Liberator. DRK has always had the most stylish gear available to it.
By Ophannus 2014-06-01 09:24:32
Quote: Get it so you can unlock Catastrophe in the future.
Prepare now.
They said this will never happen because it would give DRK and RNG a hugely unfair advantage. Remember, with Relic Weapons, the aftermath is tied to the Weapon Skill, not the weapon, therefore any old DRK could Catastrophe and get the Haste boost and any old RNG could spam Coronach and be basically hate free. Mostly every other aftermath/relic WS is pretty terrible, so I doubt they'll unlock it.
 Leviathan.Syagin
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2014-06-01 09:25:24
The debuffs on Lib are crazy also. I hear you can absorb upwards of 50 str, vit etc...
By Ophannus 2014-06-01 09:28:51
Did they ever patch it so that the absorb-stat spells don't decay over time? If they did, it would be pretty sweet(although with ilvl gear maybe not as noticable as you'd think?) Absorb-Acc+Absorb-DEX then eat Red Curry?
Siren.Kyte
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3331
By Siren.Kyte 2014-06-01 09:42:26
Quote: Get it so you can unlock Catastrophe in the future.
Prepare now.
They said this will never happen because it would give DRK and RNG a hugely unfair advantage. Remember, with Relic Weapons, the aftermath is tied to the Weapon Skill, not the weapon, therefore any old DRK could Catastrophe and get the Haste boost and any old RNG could spam Coronach and be basically hate free. Mostly every other aftermath/relic WS is pretty terrible, so I doubt they'll unlock it.
1) No one gives two *** about Catastrophe's haste effect anymore
2) That isn't even true anyways.
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Leviathan.Kaparu
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-06-01 09:51:08
Your ability to be so consistently wrong about everything is downright impressive
Leviathan.Syagin
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2014-06-01 09:58:29
Quote: Get it so you can unlock Catastrophe in the future. Prepare now. They said this will never happen because it would give DRK and RNG a hugely unfair advantage. Remember, with Relic Weapons, the aftermath is tied to the Weapon Skill, not the weapon, therefore any old DRK could Catastrophe and get the Haste boost and any old RNG could spam Coronach and be basically hate free. Mostly every other aftermath/relic WS is pretty terrible, so I doubt they'll unlock it. 1) No one gives two *** about Catastrophe's haste effect anymore 2) That isn't even true anyways. Boy it's kinda feels like you really didn't think that through before typing that out...
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 Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-01 10:14:16
Quote: Get it so you can unlock Catastrophe in the future.
Prepare now.
They said this will never happen because it would give DRK and RNG a hugely unfair advantage. Remember, with Relic Weapons, the aftermath is tied to the Weapon Skill, not the weapon, therefore any old DRK could Catastrophe and get the Haste boost and any old RNG could spam Coronach and be basically hate free. Mostly every other aftermath/relic WS is pretty terrible, so I doubt they'll unlock it.
Don't you have a relic ? just read what your relic ws say...
By Ophannus 2014-06-01 10:18:04
Quote: Don't you have a relic ? just read what your relic ws say...
Not sure if this is directed at me but aftermath is tied to the WS not the Weapon for relic weapons. For Mythic/Empyrean, it's tied to the weapon.
Lakshmi.Saevel
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-06-01 10:23:53
Lib is pretty amazing though people here are WAY overestimating the difference between it and Rag. It's better but not by some world shattering amount, it won't really change anything about your fights in DPS terms. It's not the kind of increase you wee with Koga or Conq.
It's really nice for starting a battle with DS NV Absorb-STR or Acc depending. DRK can get +20% potency and +20s duration in gear. Onyx gear gets you 10s more per piece but lacks skill or magic acc so not sure if it would be worthwhile in important fights. At 99 base potency of absorbs is 22 with a duration of 90s and decays at 1 point per 10s. Without lib you get DS NV of 45 with duration of 110s. With lib your talking 64 with a duration of 110s.
That's all without considering what SE is about to change WS wise. So if your wanting to get a mythic and DRK is what you like to rock, then go for it cause it's actually useful.
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-01 10:24:28
Quote: Don't you have a relic ? just read what your relic ws say...
Not sure if this is directed at me but aftermath is tied to the WS not the Weapon for relic weapons. For Mythic/Empyrean, it's tied to the weapon.
I'll assume you're a troll from now on.
By Ophannus 2014-06-01 10:25:31
Quote: I'll assume you're a troll from now on.
For relics, the Aftermath comes from the Relic WS itself. Lets use Swords for example. Almace is Chance of Crit varies with TP, Chant du Cygne doesn't give Aftermath unless used with Almace. Atonment doesn't give aftermath unless used with Burtgang because those weapons say on their help text Aftermath. Relic weapons do not have an Aftermath stat on them in the help text because the relic ws itself is what grants the aftermath, not using the WS with the weapon on. SE stated back when they let us unlock Empyrean WS that they would not consider letting us unlock Relic WS because the aftermath effects are linked to the weapon skill itself and not the actual weapon. This was their words.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4322
By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-06-01 10:25:33
You don't get Scourge's AM effect of enhanced Crit rate with anything other than Ragnarok. So it's tied to the weapon, as a weapon specific Aftermath Effect.
"Scourge" Valhalla/Ragnarok: Temporarily increases critical hit rate"
Does not apply to the great sword found in Abyssea: Attowha, after 13 ws's have been used.
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By Ophannus 2014-06-01 10:29:49
The weapon skills have "Additional Effect(whatever the aftermath is), TP doesn't do anything else for those weapon skills except increase duration of the aftermath effect.
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-01 10:31:14
Quote: I'll assume you're a troll from now on.
For relics, the Aftermath comes from the Relic WS itself. Lets use Swords for example. Almace is Chance of Crit varies with TP, Chant du Cygne doesn't give Aftermath unless used with Almace. Atonment doesn't give aftermath unless used with Burtgang because those weapons say on their help text Aftermath. Relic weapons do not have an Aftermath stat on them in the help text because the relic ws itself is what grants the aftermath, not using the WS with the weapon on. SE stated back when they let us unlock Empyrean WS that they would not consider letting us unlock Relic WS because the aftermath effects are linked to the weapon skill itself and not the actual weapon. This was their words.
Aftermath part is the only help text for most(all?) relic wpn and it even mention the finished wpn/dyna wpn aftermath only so yeah.
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-01 10:32:12
Quote: Quote Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui View Post
I have the following questions/comments regarding the unlocking of these special weapon skills, and I'm sure a lot of others are thinking the same:
- Relics: There are gaps in a lot of the weapon skills for these weapons. For example, there is no special advantage to Knights of Round or Scourge, while on the other hand unlocking Catastrophe or Coronach would lead to the destruction of balance.
- Mythic: These weapon skills can already be unlocked through the quest "Unlocking a Myth."
- Empyrean/Coin: How will these weapon skills be differentiated for the two weapons?
HINT: Namas and Catastrophe wouldn't be OP because of their aftermath...
Lakshmi.Saevel
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-06-01 10:33:43
Umm .... that doesn't mention anything about AM being part of the WS. Actually I'm pretty positive that's bullsh!t because we have the abysesa weapons that let you use the relic WS every 13ws and you sure as hell don't get AM from those.
Quote: - Relics: There are gaps in a lot of the weapon skills for these weapons. For example, there is no special advantage to Knights of Round or Scourge, while on the other hand unlocking Catastrophe or Coronach would lead to the destruction of balance.
That's easy as hell to interpret. Cata restores HP and Coronach has static enmity generation. Neither of those are AM effects and are actually properties of the WS. KoTR and Scourge don't have any special properties.
Bismarck.Bloodrose
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4322
By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-06-01 10:36:47
Relic: Aftermath Duration
Mythic: Aftermath type: acc/att/occasionally attacks twice or thrice
Empyrean: Aftermath ODD Duration and ODD Rate.
They are all Aftermaths tied to their respective weapons.
By Ophannus 2014-06-01 10:40:44
I don't see "Aftermath: Regen" anywhere on Excalibur. It's tied to Knights of the Round, it's in Knight's of the Round's help text. Duration of Knights of the Round's aftermath effect varies with TP. Mythic/Emp ws have other fTP modifiers that vary with TP, for Relic it's aftermath duration because they're all 3.0 at every fTP level. It's tied to the WS. The only weapons that can use Relic WS are Stage4/5 and they come with Aftermath. The Abyssea weapons don't count as they're special cases/latents and they could have easily untoggled those from being able to benefit from Aftermath.
Almace is Damage varies with TP, but when you have Burtgang on, you get AM as well. Knights of the Round has no other TP modifier except Regen duration aftermath. They wouldn't unlock Relic WS because most of them would be worthless and they'd have to change all their TP modifiers to account for no aftermaths.
Bismarck.Bloodrose
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4322
By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-06-01 10:43:52
In the case of Coronach, The enmity-20 is considered to be an "Additional effect" when used by Ferdinand or Annhilator, as the Exequy gun does not give Aftermath, which is also further proof that the AM is tied to the weapon.
As for Catastrophe, the additional effect of the Weapon Skill is HP drain, but the relic Aftermath, that only comes from Bec de Faucon/Apocolypse, is haste.
Get the point?
Asura.Ccl
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-01 10:45:19
On the ws help text it mention the AM is tied to the weapon; it mention the wpn name on it.
Bismarck.Bloodrose
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4322
By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-06-01 10:47:02
Knights of Round: Caliburn/Excalibur: Additional Effect: regen.
Tied to the god damn *** weapon.
Corbenic Sword does not grant Knights of Round the additional regen effect.
Lakshmi.Saevel
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-06-01 10:56:28
Guys ... we have access to weapons that give us the Relic WS's.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Corbenic_Sword
Using KoTR with this weapon, you don't get the Aftermath effect of Regen.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Crisis_Scythe
Using Catastrophe with this weapon, you don't get the Aftermath effect of Haste.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Exequy_Gun
Using Coronach with this weapon, you don't get the Aftermath effect of -20 enmity.
Don't know how much more proof anyone needs. Anyone saying AM effects of Relic weapons are tied to the WS are idiots. The AM effect is clear and demonstrably tied to the Weapon as evidenced from the non-Relic weapons with those WS's on them.
What SE was referring to was the additional effect / special properties of certain weapons. Cata's HP restore, Coronach's static enmity and the defense down from MT. Those are properties of the weapon skills, similiar to the slow from UF, the MP restore from Entropy or the Silence from Gekko.
[+]
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19399
By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-06-01 11:31:53
it's ophannus
Siren.Kyte
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3331
By Siren.Kyte 2014-06-01 12:24:02
Quote: Get it so you can unlock Catastrophe in the future. Prepare now. They said this will never happen because it would give DRK and RNG a hugely unfair advantage. Remember, with Relic Weapons, the aftermath is tied to the Weapon Skill, not the weapon, therefore any old DRK could Catastrophe and get the Haste boost and any old RNG could spam Coronach and be basically hate free. Mostly every other aftermath/relic WS is pretty terrible, so I doubt they'll unlock it. 1) No one gives two *** about Catastrophe's haste effect anymore 2) That isn't even true anyways. Boy it's kinda feels like you really didn't think that through before typing that out...
Haste comes default to basically every piece of iLVL gear. Capping without using the waist slot is extremely trivial.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1899
By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2014-06-01 13:37:48
oh god, I take my hat off to you people actually bothering to reply to this utter scrub
Leviathan.Syagin
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2014-06-01 15:22:37
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »oh god, I take my hat off to you people actually bothering to reply to this utter scrub Them there be fighting words!
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 546
By Asura.Echandra 2014-06-01 15:56:55
this thread hurt my brain. Amazing how we can spiral from the completely obvious to...uggh just nevermind. I want my 5 minutes back.
At this stage of the game, I have no overall goal to aim for. All I am doing is working on the reforged armour, which I have most of now for my three main jobs, so I have been contemplating saving money on a mythic.
I have Ragnarok 119, and no Apocalypse. I really enjoy my Ragnarok, and I like to think I do alright with it, but I have and always will be a lover of a scythe-wielding dark knight. From the early days I have always wanted to use scythe, but Resolution came out, and since then I switched over to the Great Sword so I could keep DPS up.
One problem with this decision is the severe lack of information regarding the weapon from first hand experience. Does anyone know whether a Liberator would damage deal better then a Ragnarok?
Also I am skeptical, because I use Resolution, Last Stand and Exenterator on a regular basis, and as we are only allowed 3 Merit WS, I would not be able to merit Entropy fully.
Then there's the issue of new content. Every month we get new pieces of equipment that slowly close the gap between regular weapons and R/M/E.
I did that with my Ragnarok, I got it up to 95 only for it to be outdated by Bereaver and Senbaak. I couldn't use my Ragnarok for many many months until they updated R/M/E to 119.
It would be a long term plan for me, but I don't want to set out on this journey if the weapon isn't all that great in comparison to Ragnarok, especially when I could spend my money on an Apocalypse instead for the utility, or even a Mandau for my THF.
Thanks to anyone who can provide real feedback.
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