~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Paladin » ~First and Final Line of Defense v2.0~
~First and Final Line of Defense v2.0~
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By Wyrmnax 2023-05-16 08:56:07  
So, building my PLD, and have questions about a couple things:

1) I see PLDS on Sheol C actually landing BLU spells. I... can't do that, at least not yet. What kind of set are people using to be able to actually land those things? Both Frightful Roar and Sheep Song would be very useful to be able to land...

2) Is that affected a lot by Master lv? I am currently only ML 13
 Bahamut.Bizarro
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By Bahamut.Bizarro 2023-05-16 09:08:09  
You always have a 5% chance to land something. Just like the game "caps" acc @ 95% Think about it this way, your level 50 something BLU isnt going to land anything with any consistency on mobs 60+ levels above you.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-05-16 09:23:32  
As an aside: are you guys actually setting Frightful Roar? Is it for the 5% chance that you land the debuff? Because it casts in .4 seconds instead of .6? Is it because of the recast time? What am I missing here?

Seems like it would be better to cast Sheep Song, Soporific, or Geist Wall, all of which have twice the enmity, including CE which will actually be retained during the fight instead of purely VE. I guess the recast is shorter, but with at least 5 good BLU spells for enmity plus flash, and other activities you could be doing on PLD (curing, recasting buffs, etc) it seems like there isn't a need for another low-enmity spell to put in your rotation. Are there times where you need to get more aoe enmity but all of the other aoe spells are on cooldown?
 Bahamut.Bizarro
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By Bahamut.Bizarro 2023-05-16 10:03:34  
I think it may be set but I never use it. My old method for dyna pulls was to aggro the statue then cast an AoE to grab initial hate then solidify with geist/sopo/sheep. Now we generally pull ~6 statues at a time and DDs have learned/grown to the point they kill faster than a single tank can pull single statues.
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By Wyrmnax 2023-05-16 11:25:52  
Problem is that I see people that can land it somewhat consistently.

As in, there is a PLD I saw that kinda just sleeps his own mobs and whatever. So I was thinking that it might be possible to gear enough macc to do that.
 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2023-05-16 12:19:24  
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
As an aside: are you guys actually setting Frightful Roar? Is it for the 5% chance that you land the debuff? Because it casts in .4 seconds instead of .6? Is it because of the recast time? What am I missing here?

Seems like it would be better to cast Sheep Song, Soporific, or Geist Wall, all of which have twice the enmity, including CE which will actually be retained during the fight instead of purely VE. I guess the recast is shorter, but with at least 5 good BLU spells for enmity plus flash, and other activities you could be doing on PLD (curing, recasting buffs, etc) it seems like there isn't a need for another low-enmity spell to put in your rotation. Are there times where you need to get more aoe enmity but all of the other aoe spells are on cooldown?

Re: Odyssey Segment
I aoe hate in a SIRD/Emnity+ spell set, and once everything is slept, I do Frightful Roar in full MACC build. Pretty nice success rate on 1f/2f marginal 3f, and 4f maybe like 10%

my PLD is ML49, so I am sure that helps the cause as well
sets.midcast['Frightful Roar'] ={
ammo="Pemphredo Tathlum",
head="Sakpata's Helm", --Chev. Armet +3 would be better MACC
neck="Moonlight Necklace",
ear2="Chev. Earring +1",
ear1="Crepuscular Earring",
body="Chev. Cuirass +3",
hands="Chev. Gauntlets +3",
ring1="Metamor. Ring +1",
ring2="Stikini ring +1",
back=gear.fastcast_jse_back,
waist="Acuity Belt +1",
legs="Chev. Cuisses +3",
feet="Chevalier's Sabatons +3"}
[+]
 Bahamut.Bizarro
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By Bahamut.Bizarro 2023-05-16 13:30:06  
Asura.Toralin said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
As an aside: are you guys actually setting Frightful Roar? Is it for the 5% chance that you land the debuff? Because it casts in .4 seconds instead of .6? Is it because of the recast time? What am I missing here?

Seems like it would be better to cast Sheep Song, Soporific, or Geist Wall, all of which have twice the enmity, including CE which will actually be retained during the fight instead of purely VE. I guess the recast is shorter, but with at least 5 good BLU spells for enmity plus flash, and other activities you could be doing on PLD (curing, recasting buffs, etc) it seems like there isn't a need for another low-enmity spell to put in your rotation. Are there times where you need to get more aoe enmity but all of the other aoe spells are on cooldown?

Re: Odyssey Segment
I aoe hate in a SIRD/Emnity+ spell set, and once everything is slept, I do Frightful Roar in full MACC build. Pretty nice success rate on 1f/2f marginal 3f, and 4f maybe like 10%

my PLD is ML49, so I am sure that helps the cause as well
sets.midcast['Frightful Roar'] ={
ammo="Pemphredo Tathlum",
head="Sakpata's Helm", --Chev. Armet +3 would be better MACC
neck="Moonlight Necklace",
ear2="Chev. Earring +1",
ear1="Crepuscular Earring",
body="Chev. Cuirass +3",
hands="Chev. Gauntlets +3",
ring1="Metamor. Ring +1",
ring2="Stikini ring +1",
back=gear.fastcast_jse_back,
waist="Acuity Belt +1",
legs="Chev. Cuisses +3",
feet="Chevalier's Sabatons +3"}
Id rather have the shield blocks and WS frequency than sleep stuff. /shrug My way isnt the only way but nice to know its possible
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2023-05-26 10:00:57  
Is it worth stacking enmity on Reprisal cast or nah?
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2023-05-26 10:38:44  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Is it worth stacking enmity on Reprisal cast or nah?
I mean, 640 VE isn't nothing, and you'd be casting the spell anyway. It's just not that much either, and the recast is sooo long that it's not really a spammable enmity option either. And it's all VE.

Personally, I focus on duration+, recast-, and survivability on Reprisal midcast. A little enmity+ is fine. I just wouldn't let it detract from other priorities.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-05-30 21:48:55  
on the subject of reprisal, with the new ring and 10 PDT on the fast cast cape, this gave me the lowest recast after forcing capped PDT and >= 3K HP with ML20 TT /WAR stats. after reducing recast as much as possible, it focused on maximizing enmity. which made no difference.

Though there might be some ring and earring combinations i did not add. it is only 24% gear haste, but no other haste pieces popped up. the only one i can think of would possibly be a hasty pinion, which was not considered.

ItemSet 391448
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By undecim 2023-06-09 17:54:58  
Just making sure... Not counting movement, knockbacks, stun, status effects, or things like that.

It is impossible to be interrupted with cap SIRD correct? And SIRD cap is 102% correct?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-06-09 18:04:36  
Yes
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-06-09 18:57:56  
you can be uninterrupted even on a knock back if you walk back to the location you started the cast before the cast is completed
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 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2023-06-09 22:01:59  
Ramuh.Austar said: »
you can be uninterrupted even on a knock back if you walk back to the location you started the cast before the cast is completed

Yes!! This is actually a very old mechanic some of us used for Ancient Magic burst parties and to pseudo-cheese people in ballista.

Good times.

As long as the only thing that happened was a knockback, just return to the exact spot and it should go off. You can even do it yourself if you want to or want to, just gotta be back on that spot before 75% of the cast iirc
 Cerberus.Dekar
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By Cerberus.Dekar 2023-06-14 21:35:55  
I finished TVR and started on my Duban. This is the best Resist! Charm build that I could put together. It has 151 Resist! Charm which can be capped out at 180 with /RUN and Pflug. It's got capped DT, -25 MDT II, all elemental resistances, and a 5% chance to absorb magic damage. While this is with Duban, you could still manage this with Adamas.

ItemSet 382591

There's certainly wiggle room with the neck and belt. The Warder's Charm and Arete del Luna do give me all elemental resistances except dark. Likewise, I get all of them with the Carrier Sash. I could throw in more enmity and or the Platinum Moogle belt for HP. Any suggestions are welcome.
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2023-06-14 22:15:37  
Cerberus.Dekar said: »
I finished TVR and started on my Duban. This is the best Resist! Charm build that I could put together. It has 151 Resist! Charm which can be capped out at 180 with /RUN and Pflug. It's got capped DT, -25 MDT II, all elemental resistances, and a 5% chance to absorb magic damage. While this is with Duban, you could still manage this with Adamas.

ItemSet 382591

There's certainly wiggle room with the neck and belt. The Warder's Charm and Arete del Luna do give me all elemental resistances except dark. Likewise, I get all of them with the Carrier Sash. I could throw in more enmity and or the Platinum Moogle belt for HP. Any suggestions are welcome.

I have unmoving collar +1, wuji ring in my set. Also use a 30 meva/10 resist all ambu cape. I would also swap out Loess - no Meva hurts too much and I dont find capping DT essential if you are anticipating a charm.
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By undecim 2023-06-17 13:55:54  
So the 102% SIRD cap is including 5/5 merits on SIRD right? So 94% in gear should not get interrupted with 5/5 merits, correct?

2nd time I did a Ody run and I been getting interrupted, This time I ended up dying because of it and the run got botched. I even died in the SIRD set and double checked and it is 94%, +5/5 merits for a total of 104%...

How? I know GS sometimes misses a piece when it swaps but I am constantly getting interrupted by large pulls... I can't use PLD on Ody runs unless I solve how this is happening.
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By IGDC 2023-06-17 14:06:55  
undecim said: »
So the 102% SIRD cap is including 5/5 merits on SIRD right? So 94% in gear should not get interrupted with 5/5 merits, correct?

2nd time I did a Ody run and I been getting interrupted, This time I ended up dying because of it and the run got botched. I even died in the SIRD set and double checked and it is 94%, +5/5 merits for a total of 104%...

How? I know GS sometimes misses a piece when it swaps but I am constantly getting interrupted by large pulls... I can't use PLD on Ody runs unless I solve how this is happening.

Something is not swapping in. That's the answer. 94% in gear + 5/5 merits would make you uninterruptable. You can verify this by equipping that gear and disabling GS and pulling however many mobs you want and cast. Your gearswap is the problem here.
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By undecim 2023-06-17 14:19:23  
It cant fail that often. Ive even set GS to full time equip the SIRD set at this point and I have equipviewer. All the gear is on during midcast and yet I am interrupted. How would equipviewer miss-report what I am wearing in midcast when it has no reference other than what is literally on.
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By Asura.Disclai 2023-06-17 14:22:17  
If you have the set locked in and you're still getting interrupted, then it isn't 102%; you've miscounted somewhere or overlooked some piece not equipping. Period.
 
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By undecim 2023-06-17 15:05:28  
at this point its like I have to screen record it to prove its happening... I'm aware of showswaps etc. there is nothing wrong with my code as far as I'm concerned if my code was screwy then my BRD would certainly have massive problems with song durations.

I know how to count to 94... ty... lol

Anyways not gonna solve the problem here. Thanks though o/
 Asura.Chendar
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By Asura.Chendar 2023-06-17 15:39:14  
How's your latency in there? I usually lag pretty bad in there and I get interrupts fairly often if I start casting immediately after I stop moving. Usually have to give it like half a second or the game thinks I'm still moving and auto-interrupts no matter what I'm wearing.

EDIT:
There's also stuff like stuns/terror/sleep that can still cause interrupts from a bunch of the mob families in there if we're talking segment runs?
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-06-17 18:41:52  
It seems like the OP of the question has given up on taking feedback so just saying this for future audiences but it's entirely possible to have a SIRD set on, get interrupted, and then die in the SIRD set.

SIRD only protects you while it is on and does not affect anything that happened before it was put on. If you begin casting a spell with 30 enemies attacking you then .2 seconds later you put your SIRD set on, 1.5 seconds later you finish casting your spell, it will almost certainly get interrupted, even if you're watching your equipviewer and it shows you're wearing your SIRD set with 200% SIRD in it.

What people were implying earlier is that the SIRD wasn't swapping on as soon as the spell begins casting and during the period where it hasn't swapped on, you're being hit and interrupted. This is entirely possible and unless you have 60 FPS eyes, are staring at equipviewer the entire time, and can perfectly distinguish the millisecond you started casting the spell, you can't identify if the swap is happening in time. Even if you could, others here are saying that equipviewer is not always an accurate representation of what you have equipped (it might lag by some ms) so you still can't take it as science.

As others have suggested, turn off GS, equip the set, pull 10 mobs, and cast some spells. If they aren't interrupted then, as expected, it's not a problem with your set but rather with your swaps. Should put on the /showswap thing to see what's happening.

Or just throw out everyone's advice and throw your arms up in the air and say it's unsolvable, that works too.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2023-06-17 23:50:52  
If gearswap is involved here, then there isn't going to be any sort of timing issue, when it comes to when the gear is equipped.

Gearswap leaves zero gap to be struck by a mob between precast and midcast. So provided you are executing properly(not spamming the cast macro, cause you can screw it up like that.) you Will only be hit in your midcast set.

The question is whether the code is equipping the correct set, and whether that set is actually capped SIRD. But seeing as they didn't post the set itself, or any code, we can't confirm either.
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 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2023-06-18 06:49:46  
Or just... You know... Start and end the cast with SIRD. Eat the longer cast and finish the spell. '-')
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 Ragnarok.Primex
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By Ragnarok.Primex 2023-06-18 09:34:53  
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
Or just... You know... Start and end the cast with SIRD. Eat the longer cast and finish the spell. '-')
they said that already when they mentioned to turn off/Unload gearswap and 100% uptime on his SIRD set to test.

There's only 4 secenarios here I can think of:
1. OP of question not counting his set right. He's established he is
2. OP got latency issues. either from slow cpu/gpu local performance or bad internet connection?
3. OP GS working perfectly fine, no connection issues, his set caps SIRD, but is casting his/her spells after the fact. "Fact" here being an action taken on him/her, while not in SIRD and/or his action/spells occurs afterwards.
4. OP is moving while casting or is getting some other negative effect that isn't negated by SIRD?

Also, I'm just returning to PLD and still nowhere near endgame; why is SIR the meta again? I haven't had to cap Spell interruption rate since terra staff days. Is it just used for big pulls and then people switch to super tank/shield and block+ gear or?
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By Seraphpdh 2023-06-18 13:39:57  
Another thing with SIRD is to make sure you are not repeatedly mashing the macro (such as when waiting for something to be coming off of cool down), because that will keep putting you in your precast set at the incorrect time. This can cause you to get caught outside of the (generally midcast) SIRD set.
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 Leviathan.Boposhopo
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By Leviathan.Boposhopo 2023-06-18 14:18:30  
Ragnarok.Primex said: »
Also, I'm just returning to PLD and still nowhere near endgame; why is SIR the meta again? I haven't had to cap Spell interruption rate since terra staff days. Is it just used for big pulls and then people switch to super tank/shield and block+ gear or?

When you're getting pummeled by 30+ mobs from varying sides you're not going to get a spell off without capped SIRD gear. So no enmity spells, cures, etc will go off (or at least are extremely unlikely to go off).
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By Nariont 2023-06-18 14:58:43  
Just have capped block rate and always have enemies in front bro. But PLD also gets it pretty nice in that a SIRD set is fairly flexible since it gets a decent amount of 20+% SIRD pieces
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