October 2023 Version Update

But to be salty about it for 10 years? Life is too short for that.

Bitterness implies an aspect of being wronged or unfairly not getting what someone is owed. As companies do not owe their customers to always choose decisions they personally want (and indeed, this would be completely impossible), and SE never made any kinds of promises on how long they were going to support FFXI I don't think bitterness is justified. Heck, FFXI has been updated and given new content like 6 years longer than it was supposed to have gone into maintenance mode with RoV.

Disappointment? Sure, absolutely. Bitterness, I don't really think so.

Invest 10k into XI and Square puts that 10k in XIV, yeah, bitter is the right word.

All the people who spent 10 years and 10k on 14 will be equally bitter when they figure out none of that money goes back into 14.

That sounds more like a fundamental misunderstanding of what purchasing something involves.

I pay to play and enjoy the game. I'm not 'investing' in it. At no point is anyone signing a contract that says my sub fee has to all go back into developing the game.

From a business perspective, using the money from FFXI on XIV has been a good business decision. It sucks but unfortunately that's the way it goes.

Would it be awesome if both 14 and 11 got the funding both games needed to be the best they could be? Of course but that's why I don't get the hate towards 14 when it's going through a similar case of underfunding.

Blame the suits at SE, not the game.

If I frequent a business I expect some amount of my money spent to be used on improving that business. Not 100% going to it's direct competitor.

The people who don't understand that are the people they're looking for to spend more.

Square Enix is the business, not FFXI. When you purchase an item from a business, you're supporting the business in general, not the item itself.

If a business is doing as you say then I stop giving that company business if I am unhappy with said situation.

The issue people have is after 20 years is of sunk-cost fallacy.

I mean, square should not have made a direct competitor to it's own product.

Cannibalized itself and made people bitter.

You just be saying anything.

None of your money should be expected to "improve" the business. You're not a partner, you're a customer paying for a service. The business may choose to use your money to improve it, but they can just as easily use your money to maintain it. And some of your FFXI sub fees goes back into maintaining the game (and minor improvements)

Considering how successful 14 has been, that is completely false.

14 was never a competitor to 11 in the same way a PS5 is not a competitor to a PS4.

SE didn't create 14 to compete with 11 but to have players completely move over to the game.

I see the whiteknightery is strong today

Raise thyn shield proudly sir whiteknight(s) and die on that hill while square discards you.

Square cannot discard me for I never tied my identity to it in the first place.

It's the people who have tied themselves so closely to a company or a game that they feel that Square owes them to make the decisions they want, and fear that they will lose who they are when that does not happen, as was obvious would eventually happen from the start.

Do not treat companies like your friend, and you won't feel betrayed when they inevitably move on.

Ah yes saying blame the suits at SE is whiteknighting for the company now.

On 11 I spoke with my wallet, that's literally all you can do.

Listen we can debate why we hate XIV but I gotta stop and laugh a bit at gatekeeping the term "bitter" behind personal justification.

To me this FFXI raid is a big advertisement for FFXI, this is not for FFXI players, it's for FFXIV players who might be interested in FFXI. If FFXI gets enough player surge again, it might get another mini expac like TVR who knows.

It's just funny to me imagining all those FFXI devs getting transferred to FFXIV team and then got assigned to the 24-man raid team and be like

reverse what you said, and maybe its correct.

My first thought was that this is clearly an attempt to get many of us XI players who never liked XIV to move over.


edit: oh, and NO ONE wants another TVR. An "expansion" of overly-verbose cutscenes and fetch quests with disparate and incomplete lore, bad battle mechanics, and a grind that rivals Sisyphus's task at the end. Now, if you had said "another RoV".....then maybe we'd have something.

I'd say RoV too but that seems to require way too much money and resources for this game.

Attracting FFXI players to FFXIV does not make sense to me given how small FFXI playerbase is, even if 100% of FFXI players would move over to FFXIV, it would be a very small drop in the bucket.

they wouldn't want us to come to XIV because of our overwhelming numbers, but our crazy blind loyalty. No business would want to give up a customer base as dedicated as those who have stuck with XI this long if an opportunity to convert them existed. We're predictable income.

Not to mention the PR face-saving move if XI dies peacefully vs in an uproar.

Honestly to me it more seems like they are out of ideas for an original 24 man, and they are taking the easy way out.

It also has the added benefit of razzing up the XI vets who play XIV now, and also keeping XI vets who play XIV from unsubbing maybe, like me.

With Endwalker assassinating XIV's lore on a large scale, while also decapitating all of the stakes in the setting, my opinion on XIV has been on a sharp down trend since early 2022.

With Dawntrail they are literally hoping that what's literally going to be a filler expansion does better than expected. There's been enough churn in their playerbase that it probably will. They're also revamping graphics, so that by itself will bring a lot of vain folks to it/back to it.

Of course, if Vana'diel gets disrespected in anyway by this 24 man's story, that'll be an instant unsub for me.

They didn't have to do TVR in the first place. They wanted to do one more story. Not sure why anyone would complain about that

This crossover alliance raid series would be a wonderful time to announce that they're going to combine the XI and XIV subscriptions. YoshiPlz.

He was pretty enthusiastic about XI when the announcement was happening, asking people who still played, who wanted to play, who never played and might be interested in trying. Also dropped some hints that the new limited job is going to be related to XI in some way. Wouldn't be surprised if something else is in the works to cross the subs or at least get people motivated to try.

I'm sure the dev kits played a role. I recall reading an interview from the ffxi devs that had stated the dev kits had failed in the final stretch of TVR development and had to be repaired, though I can't for the life of me find the interview I'm thinking of.

It is mentioned in this thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/60634

My perspective on the matter of TVR is, the options were TVR or nothing. I'm glad we got something instead of nothing. It was nice revisiting zones I hadn't been to in a really long time and seeing characters from years ago. Definitely not the best story of ffxi, but better than nothing. It bugs the ***out of me when people *** about the game not being invested in. The game received 5 expansion packs and 8 add-on packs. That is plenty of investment. The game relies on dead technology for development that would hurt anyone's career to continue working on. FFXI feels like a complete game at this point, and I'm happy we get to see some sort of continuation of this world in FFXIV.

Sadly I think the stigma attached from trying to prop up 1.0 left a bad taste. Yoshi earned his independence with ARR so I can't really blame them for yanking it, but it would certainly benefit both games.


I still like the alternate reality where we get the 'maintenance mode' announcement back when they added level sync, removed level cap restrictions, changed HNM, ect. Actually committing to 'pulling the plug' on XI allows them to avert the 1.0 tragedy and actually put out a worthy successor. XI remains in the 75 era so no community splintering off and XIV basically carries the torch with better graphics, functional UI, ect.

End of RoV gave us 3 zones full of new enemies, literally dozens of pieces of gear and equipment, and a repeatable RMEA quest that one could do without giving up progress into all other aspects of gameplay.

End of TVR gave us a box.

I'm curious what content they would even pull from. FFXIV already uses so much from FFXI. Alexander, Hades, Absolute Virtue, Shinryu, and many more have already been used. I don't think they touched the Shadowlord, Ark Angels or Promanthia yet, so that could be a thing. Usually dimensional hopping shenanigans in ffxi have to do with shantotto or atomos, so I could see either of those characters coming back, maybe some lilith timeline shenanigans. Technically iroha was already in ffxiv from a previous event, so maybe she will be come relevant again. I mean iroha = phoenix = shelteus = promanthia? But ffxiv has its own Phoenix storyline. Heck ffxiv even has the obscure super boss provenance watcher already in it lol. I would say odin is an option, but we just had a full odin storyline in ffxi, I don't think they would do that again so soon.

Maybe it will be something both games haven't seen yet like Tavnazia. Heck the stormblood 24 man took us to Dalmasca from ffxii >.>

Really would not like XIV players getting to fight in the original Tavnazia befoe XI players. And what would hurt more is knowing most of those XIV players would have no idea/won't care about how deeply significant it is.