NIN Can't DD

Just passing by.

Why are you responding to every thread there is?

How annoying!

He likes the way he gets a reaction out of people and considers himself a good troll as far as I can tell from posts <_<

I thought it's a chick? <_<

ya its a chick. Female troll. and nice avi Kozuki ^^ cute

Doesn't bother me either way :p statement stands!

So, back when I used to spam merit on Ninja, I would rarely lose a parse, and if I did, it was by a very minimal percent. This was back before Pizza/Innin though, and generally fared much better on Mamool than birds due to always being the target of Feather Tickle and piercing bonus for other jobs. When geared properly, Ninja can be an excellent DD, but its much easier to be a great DD then a great Ninja DD.

As a biproduct of this, I have had 269 Parrying skill for over 2 years. Never once went and tried to skill it up, its all from DD'ing Merit/Limbus mobs. Makes me sad when everyone down talks Ninjas, but hey what can you do.

Yes, an excellent Sam/Drk/Drg/War can still beat an excellent Nin, primarily due to job abilities.. But a Great Nin can still outperform many many DDs.

Keep in mind I am talking about Merit level mobs, not HNMs.

When people decide if a DD is good in merit points or not, 90% of the idiots only look at WS damage. You can blame this entirely on the SamWagon, because WAR used to be invited FOR DoT damage, back in the day when 2handed weapons sucked ***. Nin, like Mnk, is a DoT job. They always surpass their WS damage with basic melee attacks at the end of the party. The reason is simply because dual wield or martial arts for nin or mnk respectively. They hit much faster, thus do more damage over time from their normal melee swings than other jobs.

Anyone who's not using a parse these days typically fails to see this result.

It sure does. However, it does not beat any other average gear'd DD (i.e, SAM WAR DRG MNK) assuming they're playing their job right. I love NIN to death, but I know what the job is capable of.

I want to know what jobs/gear these people had before I draw my judgment. I know back when I did Dagger NIN religiously it parsed quite high before the 2hand update.

Unfortunately there's a double-edged sword in play with parses and WS/melee damage. NIN's main WS is multihit and SAM's is singlehit, meaning they will often get a lot more "overkill" damage which makes them look more impressive on the parse (even though realistically it adds nothing). Even with Penta Thrust, Overwhelm and such make each hit do so much that you get a -lot- of "overkill".

Mithran NINs are however extremely alluring.

You really love those cats, dont you?

I have a slight liking I will admit. Not as obsessed as commonly inferred from my posts though :P

Suuuure -_-

prolly kinda late, but yeah i think the title just about sums this thread up?

NIN can't DD compared to other DD, but a NIN trying to DD will keep hate much easier than a NIN trying to evade everything like a total noob that doesn't know how to play NIN, thank you for continuing to read this complete run on sentence.

I wrote in another Ninja post "Tips for New NIN's", that Ninjas are an underdog job nowadays. To achieve results on par with decent DDs requires a lot of effort, gearwise and skillwise.

The bad stigma around Ninjas seem to revolve around what others have mentioned, the high WS number effect. No matter how we try, we cannot consistently pump out big numbers. The WS will fly all over the place for Jins (nature of critical multi-hit) and even "single" hit Metsus are not all that. My gear set is almost ideal for Metsu.



Unfortunately, even with this set, my weapon skills are not as powerful as other DD jobs with far less optimal gear.

However, the good thing is our TP phase does help out a lot.
Before buffs, I usually see 4 hits before a decent DD swings once.

Daytime (Night set is the same with Koga Tekko +1)


For merits I use the same set. I just spam Crab Sushi on birds or Sole Sushi for Mamools. I can keep a hold of most monsters through meleeing but that is not the whole story. It helps to keep a good enmity set around for provoking.



Of course for meleeing, I do not have the Hades Sainti around. This puts my Enmity at +44 with merits. Definitely helps keep the mobs attention more than just meleeing. Whether it is for the first provoke in merits or longer fights this set is essential so others can push their DD envelop higher. The only issue with this set would be that, in a merit party, provoke will useful for every other mob since they die so fast.

In the links to the itemsets, I have brief details explaining my gear choices and what I want to acquire in the future. I welcome any positive criticism!

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Not to attack another Kikoku user, but your Metsus outside of HNM but counting Dynamis were always 1k?? This is with buffs or solo? I am curious since I usually solo or duo with my Ninja, I find it extremely difficult to ALWAYS get 1k. I am guessing you are saying this in a party setting with optimal buffs.

Just throwing this out there because you may give false hope to other Ninjas expecting to achieve high WS numbers like other DDs by using the ALWAYS quantifier albeit party or not.

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To sum it up, I am glad people are trying their best with the Ninja job and keeping it competitive with some DDs. However, it would be wrong to say we could keep up with DDs who are as passionate with their jobs like we are with Ninja.

Your argument doesn't really work because it's a little reversed... Say a mob has 500 HP remaining and someone uses a 1-hit ws. The WS is going to do it's normal damage since it's only hitting once. Since it ONLY hits once, and lets say it hits for 1,000 damage, it will still show in the log as a 1,000 damage WS, even though 500 of it was overkill.

Now the same mob has the same amount of hp left (500) and someone uses a 5 hit ws. Lets say each hit does approximately 200 damage to make it 1,000 total damage should all hits land. Unfortunately, only 3 hits land because after that first 600 damage the mob is dead. The remaining 2 hits will not land. The log will show 600 damage since 3 hits for 200 damage landed.

Thus you got it reversed. 1-hit ws's result in more overkill damage than multi hit. This is because each of those hits pretty much never exceeds the damage that a 1-hit ws will do.

Not to mention acc plays a huge role in the total damage of a multi hit ws, giving it a lot wider damage range than a typical one-hit ws will have.

I think you need to reread what Raen wrote.

This part in particular: NIN's main WS is multihit and SAM's is singlehit, meaning they will often get a lot more "overkill" damage which makes them look more impressive on the parse (even though realistically it adds nothing).

I fully understand what he said, but it's still incorrect. Single hit ws's will net more "overkill" damage in the chat log than a multi hit if the mob dies during the ws. Since the single hit is only 1 hit, it shows the entire damage of that one hit, even though it only took a fraction of it to kill it. If a mob dies after the third hit in a five hit ws, it only shows the damage from the three hits, not all 5. The last 2 dont even hit, you wont get tp from them. You'll still get full tp from the single hit ws too.

I think you're misunderstanding him. He's saying nin will get more overkill than a sam. Because he was countering what i said about nin's damage on a parse.

No, you're misunderstanding. He's saying that sam's 1hit will net more overkill.

I love busting out an 1800 gekko on a mob with 600 hp left. :/

unfortunately that's one of the problems with most ppl's perception of DDs, the big WS numbers. sure they're great an' all, but a properly built speed nin can normally gain tp as fast as a sam with the same outside buffs, and probably do only slightly less dmg/hit.

in most situations where I bring nin, should deal no less than ~1550 damage getting from 0-100% tp (usually average ~55/hit only using pizza on your genericly decent enemy), but near capped pDif that gets closer to ~2100+ (dependent on fSTR, but I usually see a max of 76 outside of nyzul, so let's take it to 75 for ease), take away 110~150 after first WS (this is all before criticals are even calculated in, with total delay of 3612 or 3354 before double attacks/haste/hit rate cap). so trying to calculate all that in after WS (to get rid of one round) from 15% double attack, 66% haste, and let's say 7% crit (I think that's right for just merits and sanji any way) an' 90% hit rate for a bit of a nerf, that takes about 1140 delay (double attack rate and hit rate nearly canceled each other out so delay was about the same) for 1550~2090+ damage, include a WS average of ~700 and you're looking at some decent power. mind you this is on a bad day so I"m normally doing a bit better with closer to capped hit rate and a better then floored crit. rate, lol.

I don't really feel up to calculating damage<>time for tp+ws rounds for other DDs atm (and can't really compare my drk, war or mnk since I haven't been able to use them in a while so the combat averages aren't on the top of my head), so feel free to throw those up if you'd like, may be get a clearer picture.

He wasn't countering you actually, you just misread. He was saying that SAM's parses are usually inflated somewhat due to the nature of how the 1-hit WS's work. Not every reply to you is a debate, just chill yo. lol

And this is why I use Polearm in parsed events for the most part. That way people can't *** as much.

rofl you start up the parse when the sam went afk your amazing xD

reason why I have a DD then my NIN :P

actually i was mistaken. There were 2 parses that i mixed up before, one with this ridill war/nin and another nin, and the other with 2x war/sam. The one i talked before was 2x war/sam.

I'm not going to post the pic of the parse cause i don't have the patience to upload it right now hehe. But here are the numbers (both pts in mamool):

ridill war/nin 288694 35,73%
other nin 252101 31,20%
Laphine 266535 32,99%

This is the best nin parse i got actually. It was a 1:40h of duration, which makes me think the op parsed for like 10min lol (if the buffs were the same).

This was the one with 2x war/sam (30min party)
Bravura war/sam 85879 38,47%
Laphine 67455 30,22%
war/sam 69372 31,08%

So yeah, in both parties i pulled my weight. Nin certainly can't be underestimated.

My thf is still better though (if we are going to talk about underrated jobs lol). I did the same damage of my nin in another 1:40h parse but i only had minuet and madrigal as buffs. No 2x march lol. It was on birds though.

I have to say that I agree that NIN can DD in merits. It just requires being a lot more heavily geared to fare well against the DD's of today. If it's a bit higher level mob however, NIN requires more buffs than a lot of other jobs to perform at an optimal level. DoT jobs don't do well on those higher end mobs without said buffs.

If you can get those buffs though, it's pretty damn formidable. It's like when I used to do sky, and my LS would burn down Kirin. We didn't have any KC/Ridill/M.Kris DRK's (How sad, I know), but we still tore it apart with monks, warriors, ninjas, etc. This was before the 2-hand update, so said WAR's were dual-wielding and whatnot.

tl;dr Heavy buffed ninja is jawesome.

I was a little off on my gear having forgotten what I used. I did use the moogle hat for ws with the ws acc and attack choices. Yea 1k it was the merits that helped the most, plus my food of choice curry buns or pizza with berserk and warcry my attack was in the 600s-700s in ws gear with str and dex + amounts in the mid to high 30s with 5/5 str and max crit hit and max katana merits with a elemental gorget on. 1k was my average unless i was in meripo in mamools it was 800s.

I guess I posted enough in the past about NIN.
Simple NIN is not a job for everyone.
Yes NIN will parse 2% vs SAM WARs or DRGs on the long run.
Sadly no one merits for more than 3hrs like the old days. so they only see the big WS. I have MNK WAR SAM and now about to hit DRG , by FAR NIN is my favorite and most looked down on most end game LS's untill i get a chance to prove them wrong. :3 so grat NIN's out there know it, merit wise a NIN is needy yes. but what job isn't?

PLD vs NIN. Tired of prove that NIN can tank as good, just need some gear, dont need unrealistic gear like the ones above. just some skill, effort and the right items to "cheat" your way vs a PLD overpowered JA's over the last 5 years thank you SE!...

Best Jin on a Mammol THF 1200ish, Bird 1300ish.

Hope SE finally give us NIN a Range Attak WS!!!