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Anni or yoichi for ranger?
 Bismarck.Inference
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 417
By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-06 17:57:59
Using Coronach exclusively takes away the benefit from Coronach lol
Not completely accurate. Of course Coronach's aftermath is -20 enmity and that can be helpful in sneaking in some Last Stands, but Coronach(and Namas') main benefit is low, static enmity. Using Last Stand will build up your CE much faster regardless. It can be nice to twist WS if you can be bothered to do so, but using Coronach exclusively isn't a bad thing, especially on something like Ark Angels where the difference between Coronach and Last Stand is barely noticeable.
Anyways, as a handful have said relic gun is better than relic bow. But if you have/like SAM, I'd say go with Bow anyways. Namas Arrow is a lot weaker and supposedly pulls 2x as much CE/VE as Coronach, but it still gets the job done just fine if you know what you're doing.
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Ragnarok.Azryel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 317
By Ragnarok.Azryel 2014-06-06 17:59:03
From what I’ve personally seen being a Yoichi Ranger: the gun will usually win the parse, but it’s not by an obscene amount, although it does seem to be fairly consistent when compared to a Ranger of relatively even levels of gear and skill. Yoichi is a great weapon for Ranger, but my main reason for going bow over gun was that Samurai can use it too: more bang for your buck! If you’ve got a SAM and would like to have some fun just spamming Namas then by all means Yoichi is the weapon for you. Now with things like Lentus Grip and Tsurumaru coupled with all the extreme Store TP gear available you can 4-hit with ease and just repeatedly unleash Namas after Namas… with haste and marches you won’t even be able to weapon skill fast enough. Yoichi SAM in fully buffed situations is some of the most fun I’ve ever had in Vana’diel.
I know this a Ranger thread, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention how beastly a Yoichi SAM is.
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サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Sylph.Limlight 2014-06-06 18:20:42
another thing to note is that you really have to be buffed out of the *** to make namas viable on sam. The times that using namas/apex on sam is very limited. For instance with delve bee and a few other things that I'm probably missing. Otherwise the usual shoha spam is just better.
For bee a good 119 bow and apex can suffice. The point has been beaten to death already but in the end make what you want since it is a game and it's suppose to be fun. We're just having a discussion in the end.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 99
By Fenrir.Shznittle 2014-06-06 18:21:53
The answer is BOTH. Namas is a light-based weapon skill that has its applications, and in contrast Coronach is a dark-based weapon skill that also has its applications. In most events, yoichi will do just fine where piercing excels. However, in what i've seen so far it helps to MB against the Marjami Ravine Mega Boss with Darkness SC. In this case, Coronach is what you want. So, if you want to be an ideal Ranger, get both...
Ragnarok.Azryel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 317
By Ragnarok.Azryel 2014-06-06 18:27:04
another thing to note is that you really have to be buffed out of the *** to make namas viable on sam. Yoichi SAM in fully buffed situations... The point has been beaten to death already but in the end make what you want since it is a game and it's suppose to be fun. ...is some of the most fun I’ve ever had in Vana’diel.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3493
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2014-06-06 18:44:33
The answer is BOTH. Namas is a light-based weapon skill that has its applications, and in contrast Coronach is a dark-based weapon skill that also has its applications. In most events, yoichi will do just fine where piercing excels. However, in what i've seen so far it helps to MB against the Marjami Ravine Mega Boss with Darkness SC. In this case, Coronach is what you want. So, if you want to be an ideal Ranger, get both...
Are we really nitpicking to the point of a 119 relic being not "ideal" solely due to the SKILLCHAIN ATTRIBUTE on the other relic WS??? Come on...
If you're super obsessed with perfecting all things Ranger, go right ahead. But this extremely situational minor advantage makes such a tiny difference that suggesting someone should spend 120mil+ on an alternate relic is just silly. Surely almost everyone has way better things to do with their gil.
It's pretty well settled:
- Anni if you're RNG only
- Yoichi is a perfectly reasonable alternative if you also play SAM, even though it's slightly inferior to Anni for RNG purposes only.
Quetzalcoatl.Glecent
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Quetzalcoatl.Glecent 2014-06-06 18:54:24
If you like using a bow, build a bow. If you prefer using a gun, build a gun. I prefer bow and at the very least keep up with all of the gun RNGs in my shell, I usually beat them. Jishnu's Radiance destroys worlds. Namas does maybe 10% less damage than Coronach, usually a smaller difference than that. Jishnu's while Decoy Shot is up, Namas when it's down and you should be able to keep up with or beat gun RNGs if you want to use a bow. Also, Namas Arrow is Light/Distortion. Skillchain element isn't a reason to choose a weapon but it can make Darkness too.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1899
By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2014-06-06 19:13:24
so the gun rng in your ls are bad then
k
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 99
By Fenrir.Shznittle 2014-06-06 19:31:52
The answer is BOTH. Namas is a light-based weapon skill that has its applications, and in contrast Coronach is a dark-based weapon skill that also has its applications. In most events, yoichi will do just fine where piercing excels. However, in what i've seen so far it helps to MB against the Marjami Ravine Mega Boss with Darkness SC. In this case, Coronach is what you want. So, if you want to be an ideal Ranger, get both...
Are we really nitpicking to the point of a 119 relic being not "ideal" solely due to the SKILLCHAIN ATTRIBUTE on the other relic WS??? Come on...
If you're super obsessed with perfecting all things Ranger, go right ahead. But this extremely situational minor advantage makes such a tiny difference that suggesting someone should spend 120mil+ on an alternate relic is just silly. Surely almost everyone has way better things to do with their gil.
It's pretty well settled:
- Anni if you're RNG only
- Yoichi is a perfectly reasonable alternative if you also play SAM, even though it's slightly inferior to Anni for RNG purposes only.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and i stated mine...nowhere did i say anything about it being critical to have both. I just merely stated how both weapons have their place in the game. Theres plenty of players with both. So its not as obsurd as you're making it out to be...
Phoenix.Capuchin
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3493
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2014-06-06 23:53:18
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and i stated mine...nowhere did i say anything about it being critical to have both. I just merely stated how both weapons have their place in the game. Theres plenty of players with both. So its not as obsurd as you're making it out to be...
You're entitled to your opinion, sure. But come on, skillchain attribute??? I'm also entitled to laugh at that as a legitimate reason to create a relic.
I'd rather hear people just say they wanted it because they like the weapon model, or because they want to collect RNG stuff (hell, make a Mythic). Or maybe some people have a Yoichi mainly for SAM and also an Anni for RNG.
Bismarck.Snprphnx
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2693
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-06-07 00:07:58
Saying to use Bow/Namas because it does Light SC is a bad argument. Two Annihalators can do both Light and Dark.
Coronach > Last Stand = Light
Coronach > Coronach = Dark
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Sylph.Limlight 2014-06-07 00:41:54
another thing to note is that you really have to be buffed out of the *** to make namas viable on sam. Yoichi SAM in fully buffed situations... The point has been beaten to death already but in the end make what you want since it is a game and it's suppose to be fun. ...is some of the most fun I’ve ever had in Vana’diel.
hahahah
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 99
By Fenrir.Shznittle 2014-06-07 01:00:37
Waaaa, for someone that's being very critical of other's comments, all i see are words and opinions from a player, based on their profile, that doesn't even look like they have at least one of these weapons were talking about...credibility where?
Bismarck.Inference
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 417
By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-07 01:20:15
Having relics doesn't make you magically good or knowledgeable about the game. It certainly doesn't make you look like you know what you're talking about when its the only thing you can bring up, while other people are responding with actual things like this:
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »Saying to use Bow/Namas because it does Light SC is a bad argument. Two Annihalators can do both Light and Dark.
Coronach > Last Stand = Light
Coronach > Coronach = Dark
Why should I build a bow to finish optimizing my RNG, again?
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 99
By Fenrir.Shznittle 2014-06-07 01:24:38
Well in that case i stand corrected, but I never said having relics made you good. Just making the point that if you're being critical then you should at least have some experience with the weapons you're talking about. Then i was corrected by some other guy with actual facts...okay thats fine i accept that i was wrong about anni, but i would still build yoichi if i had a SAM as well.
 Fenrir.Ramzus
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1387
By Fenrir.Ramzus 2014-06-07 02:17:44
jishnu with bow completely defeats the purpose of using the relic
get gun
Phoenix.Capuchin
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3493
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2014-06-07 04:20:21
Just making the point that if you're being critical then you should at least have some experience with the weapons you're talking about.
I haven't ever been to the sun either. I still feel pretty confident I'm correct in saying it's hot.
Trying to argue about skillchain attributes to justify making a relic weapon is stupid, period.
 Bahamut.Menty
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 32
By Bahamut.Menty 2014-06-07 05:02:34
Make the Gun for Ranger.
It is a fact that the Gun is the optimum choice.
From a personal view point;
The Bow does very well and more than adequate, I also enjoy Samurai and for that reason wish I forged the bow as it offers more utility.
Ultimately you will not go wrong with either.
Cheers,
Menty
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Quetzalcoatl.Glecent
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Quetzalcoatl.Glecent 2014-06-08 14:10:41
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »so the gun rng in your ls are bad then
k
Well, luckily you and I are on the same server so how about we do a Delve or AA run together and you can show me what "gun rng who isn't bad" looks like. I'd like to have something more to compare myself to since I only do events inside of LS, no shouts so I have no other gun RNGs to compare with.
jishnu with bow completely defeats the purpose of using the relic
get gun
If you're only using an enmity reduction WS full time you're needlessly reducing your own damage. You don't have to full time Namas/Coronach to not pull hate.
Bismarck.Inference
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 417
By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-08 14:32:04
It's not enmity reduction, its static enmity. There's a limit to how much damage you can do without pulling hate and using a weapon skill other than Coronach/Namas is putting you near that limit faster, no matter how you look at it.
Its a matter of preference, but I know if I'm doing DM/Delve 2.0, I'd rather not even risk(key word) pulling hate for the sake of pumping out slightly better numbers. I think my backline likes it better that way too. We could definitely recover from some pretty big catastrophes but why would I want to be solely responsible for putting us in said problem?
Quetzalcoatl.Glecent
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Quetzalcoatl.Glecent 2014-06-08 14:38:08
Bismarck.Inference said: »It's not enmity reduction, its static enmity. There's a limit to how much damage you can do without pulling hate and using a weapon skill other than Coronach/Namas is putting you near that limit faster, no matter how you look at it.
Its a matter of preference, but I know if I'm doing DM/Delve 2.0, I'd rather not even risk(key word) pulling hate for the sake of pumping out slightly better numbers. I think my backline likes it better that way too. We could definitely recover from some pretty big catastrophes but why would I want to be solely responsible for putting us in said problem?
The WS gives a static amount of enmity which is lower than what you'd get otherwise, Thus reduced. <.< I spam Jishnu's while Decoy Shot is up in Delve 2 and never pull hate, so there's absolutely no reason not to use it. And "Slightly Better" numbers? I do at least 1.5x more with Jishnu's than with Namas Arrow if not 2x more.
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Bismarck.Inference
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 417
By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-08 14:41:45
Maybe we have different definitions of spam then, cause I have fond memories of such events not ending so well for me.
Quetzalcoatl.Glecent
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Quetzalcoatl.Glecent 2014-06-08 14:44:02
4 shots-> Jishnu's -> 3 shots -> Jishnu's -> 3 shots Jishnu's... etc. Delay between shots as small as possible, including having Courser's Roll. -42 enmity in TP, -32ish I think in Jishnu's set.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 451
By Bahamut.Greyfawkz 2014-06-08 15:29:30
Quetzalcoatl.Glecent said: »Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »so the gun rng in your ls are bad then
k
Well, luckily you and I are on the same server so how about we do a Delve or AA run together and you can show me what "gun rng who isn't bad" looks like. I'd like to have something more to compare myself to since I only do events inside of LS, no shouts so I have no other gun RNGs to compare with.
jishnu with bow completely defeats the purpose of using the relic
get gun
If you're only using an enmity reduction WS full time you're needlessly reducing your own damage. You don't have to full time Namas/Coronach to not pull hate.
If you ever find yourself on Bahamut I'll gladly pewpew against you. ;D
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Quetzalcoatl.Glecent
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Quetzalcoatl.Glecent 2014-06-08 15:39:18
Bahamut.Greyfawkz said: »If you ever find yourself on Bahamut I'll gladly pewpew against you. ;D
Lol sounds like fun but I doubt I'll be transferring anytime soon. If only world transfers were free. Unfortunately it's not worth $50 to transfer there and then back a couple days later.
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サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 451
By Bahamut.Greyfawkz 2014-06-08 15:43:22
Yeah... The wife would Jishnu's me irl if I did that loooool
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1899
By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2014-06-08 16:21:29
You're about two years too late to lose to me, fran.
That being said, I've defeated you the moment you challenged gun with your bow, because a gun in your hands will perform better than the bow already in you hands,
Quetzalcoatl.Glecent
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Quetzalcoatl.Glecent 2014-06-08 17:02:16
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »You're about two years too late to lose to me, fran.
That being said, I've defeated you the moment you challenged gun with your bow, because a gun in your hands will perform better than the bow already in you hands,
Well, since you're not here to compare, I suppose no one has lost. I'm sitting on 50M that I have no use for so I was going to start a gun had you won by more than ~2%, but since you haven't even played since long before Adoulin came out, that's not going to happen. I'll just continue to do well with my bow and go on my way until someone can actually show me that gun is better.
Bismarck.Snprphnx
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2693
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-06-08 17:54:30
Keityan posted parse data in the Ranger guide thread, on VD DM runs.
Quote: Keityan, please post more data. Those sound exaggerated at least a little bit, you have some extra total damage in there.
Just a few from the last week: Top Bows, Bottom, Guns. All VD DM's. We do not exaggerate. We've won easily with 4 1/2 RNG's. (That 1/2 would be the guy that's at work and has 50% damage of all the other ones). Here's some WS averages:
Code
Keityan 96511 0 96511 53.65 % 49/5 90.74 % 1331/3112 1969.61
- Jishnu's Radiance 9892 0 9892 10.25 % 4/0 100.00 % 2241/2694 2473.00
- Namas Arrow 86619 0 86619 89.75 % 45/5 90.00 % 1331/3112 1924.87
Keityan 95782 0 95782 51.98 % 51/4 92.73 % 0/4606 1878.08
- Jishnu's Radiance 7118 0 7118 7.43 % 2/0 100.00 % 2512/4606 3559.00
- Namas Arrow 88664 0 88664 92.57 % 49/4 92.45 % 0/2942 1809.47
Keityan 115592 0 115592 53.00 % 62/2 96.88 % 1340/4260 1864.39
- Jishnu's Radiance 13990 0 13990 12.10 % 7/0 100.00 % 1340/2662 1998.57
- Namas Arrow 101602 0 101602 87.90 % 55/2 96.49 % 1405/4260 1847.31
Godbae 94984 0 94984 51.72 % 49/2 96.08 % 1344/2745 1938.45
- Jishnu's Radiance 5100 0 5100 5.37 % 2/0 100.00 % 2518/2582 2550.00
- Namas Arrow 89884 0 89884 94.63 % 47/2 95.92 % 1344/2745 1912.43
Keityan 117128 0 117128 53.81 % 61/2 96.83 % 1118/3164 1920.13
- Jishnu's Radiance 10925 0 10925 9.33 % 4/0 100.00 % 2408/3164 2731.25
- Namas Arrow 106203 0 106203 90.67 % 57/2 96.61 % 1118/2616 1863.21
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Papsmurf 123200 0 123200 54.34 % 55/4 93.22 % 0/5019 2240.00
- Coronach 114338 0 114338 92.81 % 51/4 92.73 % 0/5019 2241.92
Papsmurf 108902 0 108902 51.94 % 44/2 95.65 % 1017/4824 2475.05
- Coronach 106360 0 106360 97.67 % 43/2 95.56 % 1017/4824 2473.49
- Last Stand 2542 0 2542 2.33 % 1/0 100.00 % 2542/2542 2542.00
Papsmurf 138344 0 138344 51.71 % 61/4 93.85 % 1699/5208 2267.93
- Coronach 131350 0 131350 94.94 % 58/4 93.55 % 1699/5208 2264.66
- Last Stand 6994 0 6994 5.06 % 3/0 100.00 % 2084/2510 2331.33
Also, as a side-note, our LS abilities timed down to their maximum efficiency. There is very little variation between the use of every ability because they are entirely optimized to the maximum DPS potential of the alliance. All the RNG's barrage in unison, we EES in unison, we overkill in unison, double shot, bounty shot, random deal, wildcard etc. I have confidence that the damage disparities between gun and bow in our alliance are due to the weapon itself and not the players. The three guns are always grouped together and the three bows are always grouped together- there is almost no intermixing.
Quetzalcoatl.Glecent
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Quetzalcoatl.Glecent 2014-06-08 22:46:42
That parse means very little to me since none of those RNGs use their heavy damage WSs more than a couple times. There's no reason to almost exclusively use Coronach/Namas.
I have been looking at both weapons and both looks amazing at 119 but which would be the better for overall.
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