China's Economy Just Overtook The USA's

This is going to be a hilarious thread, I can tell. The US economy is not struggling, China overtaking the US economy is not a reflection of anything going on in the US. The dollar is incredibly strong right now, as is the stock market. But keep blaming Obama for...what is it this time?

With the amount of the debt they have, western countries may face that kind of question soon or later.

I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws in Jet's argument. He's just going to say "no u" and continue to do so until he is blue in the face, especially when he is proven wrong.

Just like every other post he makes.

Wait, so France is no longer considered part of the "western countries" in your mind?

But keep going. Understand that national debt has nothing (direct) to do with productivity, just governmental policies.

As long as you remember that before government regulations started happening big businesses would do anything they could to save some money or increase productivity. Be it (now) illegal waste dumping. Or child labor. Or severely underpaying employees and providing no benefits or compensation for injuries caused by an unsafe work environment.

You are implying that prior to regulations and laws preventing those actions, that every company in existence was practicing those items.

You are completely and utterly incorrect. Most businesses prior to these regulations have kept a standard for the community's welfare as it was smart business sense to do so. Bad environment created sick workers which lowered productivity and increased labor costs (for replacing and training new workers). Child labor created countless defects and slow productivity turnover which also increased product and labor costs. Underpaying employees below their market value creates high turnover and increased production and labor costs due to constant replacement and training.

Yes there were (and still are) a few bad companies who still have bad business practices, and they are still paying the prices for it. But to take those very few businesses and lump them together with the multitude of good businesses, that does an injustice to businesses and reality in a whole.

The people like the protesters from OWS and others, especially certain posters like Jet, they are so blind in their hatred of businesses that they will create utter falsehoods without ever thinking about if it's even remotely true or accurate.

I want you to realize that. And any other poster who will automatically blame businesses because of their own mistakes in life.

A few my ***. Every company outsourcing to foreign countries because the CEO and board members aren't willing to take the financial hit their own bulging wallets, thus screwing over the general American populace, to operate in a safe manner are all ***stains.

And it was a big enough problem that the government was forced to step in. They'd let that ***slide for a long time before everyone got fed up enough to demand change.

Firstly, the economy is in better shape than when he took office. Second, I wouldn't credit him with any particular gains or losses in the economy, he just doesn't have that kind of direct influence.

Recession over =/= problem fixed, residual effects of the Bush administration will be felt for a long time, but what's hilarious is that this troll thinks or asserts that I'm a fan of Obama, which is just sadly hilarious.

Obamacare says hi.

It must be nice to live in a world where 1870-1890 America never happened.

1. Congress makes laws. You can blame PPACA on Congressional Democrats, but Obama didn't write or pass the legislation, he only signed it.
2. What does PPACA have to do with Obama's direct influence on the economy?

You do realize that premium costs for 2014 are actually about equal to 2013, the first year without a significant rise in cost in the last 20 years? Also, insurance companies legally cannot lose money during the implementation of PPACA, so 2016 I believe, before the actual solvency of the law can be assessed.

Edit: I'd also like to note that last month unemployment claims were at their lowest level in 70 years and the estimated jobless rate has steadily declined for the last 3 years. I wouldn't credit Obama for that, and the metrics are flawed in what they attempt to demonstrate and how they do it, but the economy IS on the rise.

I think you don't understand.

Dude, there is a reason why we import stuff from the US even if they exist here.

That's because the dollar while higher than 2 years ago is still cheap for anyone using any of the 3 currencies above.

I notice how you didn't actually list any currencies...other than the US dollar remains the strongest currency.

I've been saving up Zimbabwe dollars for a while now.

I'm a trillionaire in Africa !

Lol? You never went out of your country? It's listed at every single airport, no joke.

#1 British Pound
#2 Syrian Dinar (I may be wrong on the country, but it's middle East related)
#3 Euro
#4 US Dollar

Git gud. Just bought a brand new Vita from the US for like 50€ less that it would cost here, express shipping included. I'm exaggerating a bit here but, your country is literally third world for anyone using the top 3 currencies wanting to buy stuff there. Completely peanuts.

Peace Walker is 15€ if we use dollars as base price, while it's 20€ here. So, you can buy it, eat the shipping and/or your bank fees on the currency change and STILL pay less than here.

If by strongest you mean "center", yes, you're right, after all oil is still in US Dollar and so on. But in term of currency level, US dollar isn't Yen tier but it's still peanuts.

Until the US dollar isn't the main world's currency, it'll stay very, very important, no matter its worth. Nobody is denying this, I hope.

In exchange rate, maybe, but part of the value of currency is tied to it's actual buying power. The dollar's strength is tied to it's status as the global reserve currency, it's the most widely traded currency, and it's backed by the full faith and credit of the largest economy on Earth. I'm no economist, the dollar is quite possibly weaker than other currencies objectively, but exchange rates aren't the only metric.

FTFY.
The reason the American Dollar has any remnants of its prestige and strength is because we sell oil in Dollars.
The likelihood that we will continue to do this is doubtful.


GCC sentiment has changed a lot since then. They don't really feel like the US has their best interests at heart. So they're starting to wonder why they're loosing as much as 2/3rds of their purchasing power by keeping the greenback alive.

GCC states also have their own problems now. 200,000,000 youth under the age of 25. Saudi's population has exploded from 8 million to 40 million in a matter of 2 decades.

We can't keep funding the dollar's survival. Our economies have been suffering from crazy inflation on a yearly basis for the past 15 years. If the GCC pegs to the Euro, its going to be a very different world in 10 years.

What I pay in a year's worth of rent would buy me an apartment in Manhattan 100%.

More than UAE oil uses dollars as it's primary or only currency. More than oil, even. That's not to say that it wouldn't hurt the dollar internationally when other countries move to other currencies, but it's hardly "funding the dollar's survival". You counter perceived blind nationalism with... blind nationalism. Congrats.

Its not the UAE alone. Why do you think the GCC postponed it's union's currency?
When Kuwait depegged from the Dollar, it was followed by the Euros strongest gains ever against the Dollar.
And that is just Kuwait - what do you think would happen when Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE all start selling Oil in another currency?
China, which has a huge reserve of Dollars (1.3 trillion last time I checked) would suddenly be sitting on a pile of useless paper. Because China, like the rest of the world, gets their oil from the GCC. I think you're really underestimating just how fragile the world economy is, and how much energy and oil plays a role in it all. I say "and oil" because only 66% of Oil's use is for energy. The remaining 34% is for petrochemicals, pharmaceuticals, construction, agriculture and pretty much anything you see in front of you and when you step outside.

Rewind to the end of 2013 when sanctions imposed on Iran by the EU and the US ended up hurting the US and EU far more than it hurt Iran.

The US couldn't even convince its allies, such as India, to not buy Iranian oil. India has energy needs to.

As many allies as the US has, they're not going to shoot themselves in the head to keep the US$ alive.

Do you think China, which is at odds with the US on many many many national interests continues to finance American debt out of the kindness of its heart?

Those dollars they have allow them to leverage against energy uncertainty. Something they're not willing to gamble on. If they smell a depegg, pooof.

I'm not underestimating anything, I'm simply stating that you're overvaluing the impact exclusive dollar based oil sales holds on the value of the dollar as an international currency.

BTW, that "1.3 Trillion" dollars accounts for just slightly more than 1% of the total US economy. Not insignificant by any means, but hardly the vice on the balls scenario that you paint.

That's def the Kuwaiti Dinar

It's 1/16th of annual US GDP.
It's 1.3 trillion dollars that are not floating in the economy.
If such a sizable amount was spent by China tomorrow, buying shares and property in the US, it would cause these effects:

1. OPEC out of fear of losing value on oil, will start selling in another currency.

2. Private investors who hold treasuries, will start selling out of fear.

3.Inflation within the US economy. The only way the FED could fight would be to raise interest rates, which would destroy the consumer segment of the economy and anyone else who finances their consumption. They will do the opposite, quantitative easing #99? I lost track

4.Other nations that have reserve USD will start to dump them as well.

5.Oil prices will sky rocket - 350/barrel at the very least over the long term. In the short term twice that as the global economy re-adjusts and old contracts are revised to establish price/currency.

Its not that the US can't avoid all this, its that it doesn't seem to want to.

The US could easily re-nationalize the FED and establish some kind of standard that gives the USD some intrinsic value. Only problem is that China would also stand to gain in that situation.

When people like Soros, Buffet, Goodman, Trump, Carlos talk about them already hedged against the Dollar, you would think people would take notice.

Just so you know what Sentiment has been like in this part of the world for the past decade-

I was tired waiting at the airport, but I was mind blown from my seat when I saw a currency that had a value between € and £.

That made me wonder what number would have been shown if it had been Gold Dinar.

No they did NOT, yet.


PPP is an adjusted number people.
US: $17.91 trillion
China: $10.35 trillion

Ah Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad's legacy, a big "F U to the US" lol; the Gold Dinar.

It depends on the context and metric. Its mentioned in the OP.