PLD=No Thx?!?!

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Paladin » PLD=No thx?!?!
PLD=No thx?!?!
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 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-11-25 14:03:40  
I'll happily take any DD job to Nyzul... it really is incredibly easy to DD there and furthermore your success is hugely based on the competence of the players rather than the jobs in question, so I would take a good BST anytime, yah.

As for the PLD issue, basically same thing as Vegetto above. As long as they're trying to DD, I don't really mind but I'm not going to objectively look for one when making my own.
 Bahamut.Rumaha
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By Bahamut.Rumaha 2009-11-25 14:28:50  
I saw the title and I flashed back to like 2004 when PLD never got PT cuz NIN was "the tank", sad days then.

As for Nyzul, Nyzul is about player communication and skill, as for bosses PLD w/ a Joyeuse and good TP gear will be putting out 720-750 Atonement, and they can get a Wing and Regain drink to really speed it up.

So imo, and perhaps many of yours, Cerberus is the hardest/most annoying boss for Nyzul, and guess what :D, Atonement does extra dmg to Cerberus family lol. Idk how much extra but anything over 750 can most likely break the SS he puts up in 1 hit, and PLD also can make your PT stay alive longer with Rampart if an AoE is about to hit etc.

And PLD doesn't have that bad acc :/, A+ skill but they are tied for 17th in DEX, only WHM is behind, but that only hurts so much. PLD only appears to have bad acc because the ones you see in EXP probably have little to no acc gear on, compared to all your DD's having 20-30~ etc, also the 1 hand acc Vs 2 hand.

Nyzul is about people's skill the DD's jobs don't really matter.
 Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2009-11-25 14:35:44  
Bahamut.Rumaha said:
I saw the title and I flashed back to like 2004 when PLD never got PT cuz NIN was "the tank", sad days then.

As for Nyzul, Nyzul is about player communication and skill, as for bosses PLD w/ a Joyeuse and good TP gear will be putting out 720-750 Atonement, and they can get a Wing and Regain drink to really speed it up.

So imo, and perhaps many of yours, Cerberus is the hardest/most annoying boss for Nyzul, and guess what :D, Atonement does extra dmg to Cerberus family lol. Idk how much extra but anything over 750 can most likely break the SS he puts up in 1 hit, and PLD also can make your PT stay alive longer with Rampart if an AoE is about to hit etc.

And PLD doesn't have that bad acc :/, A skill but they are tied for 17th in DEX, only WHM is behind, but that only hurts so much. PLD only appears to have bad acc because the ones you see in EXP probably have little to no acc gear on, compared to all your DD's having 20-30~ etc, also the 1 hand acc Vs 2 hand.

Nyzul is about people's skill the DD's jobs don't really matter.


Its about 200-450 extra dmg on the one in nzyul depending if you've built enmity to cap. which is simple pld/dnc mix of enmity tanking gear/ haste / and acc. my group never finishes with less than 5 minutes left typically before the 10 mark. but from personal experience take it pld/dnc so you can main heal for some DD's when you have to split up on ALL ENEMIES floors.
 Odin.Kalico
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By Odin.Kalico 2009-11-25 14:41:41  
Cerberus.Geldric said:
He never said anything about PLD sucking in Nyzul Isle, and you still haven't defended saying RDM is a better then PLD.

Whats there to defend and didn't say it was better job (Which it is)
I said rdm/nin it can out DD a pld/nin. I'm basing it on
me soloing on both jobs on tough mobs in the past.
Only other thing i can do is put up ss, but i'm @ work atm
so thats not happening anytime soon. O.o
You can either agree or disagree or put up ss proving me wrong
I honestly don't care just was putting my 2 cents in from a guy
who has both jobs. I might start a thread in Rdm forum
and get their opinion on this lol :)
 Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2009-11-25 14:43:51  
Odin.Kalico said:
Cerberus.Geldric said:
He never said anything about PLD sucking in Nyzul Isle, and you still haven't defended saying RDM is a better then PLD.

Whats there to defend and didn't say it was better job (Which it is)
I said rdm/nin it can out DD a pld/nin. I'm basing it on
me soloing on both jobs on tough mobs in the past.
Only other thing i can do is put up ss, but i'm @ work atm
so thats not happening anytime soon. O.o
You can either agree or disagree or put up ss proving me wrong
I honestly don't care just was putting my 2 cents in from a guy
who has both jobs. I might start a thread in Rdm forum
and get their opinion on this lol :)

lol rdm shut up and go [Back line job] pls :)
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By Kujata.Thevenominside 2009-11-25 14:46:35  
PLD are underated full stop.

Stick a joyuese in a paladins hand, add atonement, and your laughing.
 Fairy.Jalen
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By Fairy.Jalen 2009-11-25 14:47:16  
Ok so i been also told that ninja is a useless job for nyzul also is this true?
I been leveling it mostly for nyzul
 Odin.Kalico
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By Odin.Kalico 2009-11-25 14:49:31  
Ramuh.Urial said:
Odin.Kalico said:
Cerberus.Geldric said:
He never said anything about PLD sucking in Nyzul Isle, and you still haven't defended saying RDM is a better then PLD.
Whats there to defend and didn't say it was better job (Which it is) I said rdm/nin it can out DD a pld/nin. I'm basing it on me soloing on both jobs on tough mobs in the past. Only other thing i can do is put up ss, but i'm @ work atm so thats not happening anytime soon. O.o You can either agree or disagree or put up ss proving me wrong I honestly don't care just was putting my 2 cents in from a guy who has both jobs. I might start a thread in Rdm forum and get their opinion on this lol :)
lol rdm shut up and go [Back line job] pls :)

lol I only solo with my Rdm I got blu for my DD
and like I said b4 my Pld is 75 w decent gear.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-25 15:12:29  
Kujata.Thevenominside said:
PLD are underated full stop.

Stick a joyuese in a paladins hand, add atonement, and your laughing.
Atonement is great on HNM and rly tough monsters, but when you come to mobs that every dd is busting out over 1k easily, atonement is pretty damn crappy in comparison.
 Shiva.Clowdd
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By Shiva.Clowdd 2009-11-25 15:30:23  
Although I prefer DD, <Insert Job Here> is welcome to my party as long as you do your part. There are times I wish I had a PLD,BLM, ect in the party. So, don't knock the person or the job, just give them a chance. It's Nyzul Isle not ACP 11 specific onry job setups. Especially if it's for a climb. If we can complete floors as 4 people, I don't see why any given job can't fill an open slot.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-25 15:36:12  
Shiva.Clowdd said:
Although I prefer DD, <Insert Job Here> is welcome to my party as long as you do your part. There are times I wish I had a PLD,BLM, ect in the party. So, don't knock the person or the job, just give them a chance. It's Nyzul Isle not ACP 11 specific onry job setups. Especially if it's for a climb. If we can complete floors as 4 people, I don't see why any given job can't fill an open slot.
Because in a pick up party, you're bound to get a retard or two. So you want to go with the best choice in every slot, in case someone fails horribly, the other person is good enough to account for their slack. While it can be done w/ four skilled people, let's say we have only two skilled people and 3 random pick ups w/ a last slot to fill. I'm going to want one of the preferred jobs just in case the people we picked up randomly have no clue what they're doing.
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 Odin.Kalico
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By Odin.Kalico 2009-11-25 15:41:51  
Fairy.Vegetto said:
Shiva.Clowdd said:
Although I prefer DD, <Insert Job Here> is welcome to my party as long as you do your part. There are times I wish I had a PLD,BLM, ect in the party. So, don't knock the person or the job, just give them a chance. It's Nyzul Isle not ACP 11 specific onry job setups. Especially if it's for a climb. If we can complete floors as 4 people, I don't see why any given job can't fill an open slot.
Because in a pick up party, you're bound to get a retard or two. So you want to go with the best choice in every slot, in case someone fails horribly, the other person is good enough to account for their slack. While it can be done w/ four skilled people, let's say we have only two skilled people and 3 random pick ups w/ a last slot to fill. I'm going to want one of the preferred jobs just in case the people we picked up randomly have no clue what they're doing.


Yep :0
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2009-11-25 15:51:59  
Fairy.Jalen said:
Ok so i been also told that ninja is a useless job for nyzul also is this true? I been leveling it mostly for nyzul

Kinda yea.
War is a pretty good job to take in though, and you have that levelled decently high.
 Fairy.Jalen
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By Fairy.Jalen 2009-11-25 16:03:50  
yeah I kinda was force to level it lol but im takin a break from it atm
 Shiva.Clowdd
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By Shiva.Clowdd 2009-11-25 16:29:03  
Odin.Kalico said:
Fairy.Vegetto said:
Shiva.Clowdd said:
Although I prefer DD, <Insert Job Here> is welcome to my party as long as you do your part. There are times I wish I had a PLD,BLM, ect in the party. So, don't knock the person or the job, just give them a chance. It's Nyzul Isle not ACP 11 specific onry job setups. Especially if it's for a climb. If we can complete floors as 4 people, I don't see why any given job can't fill an open slot.
Because in a pick up party, you're bound to get a retard or two. So you want to go with the best choice in every slot, in case someone fails horribly, the other person is good enough to account for their slack. While it can be done w/ four skilled people, let's say we have only two skilled people and 3 random pick ups w/ a last slot to fill. I'm going to want one of the preferred jobs just in case the people we picked up randomly have no clue what they're doing.


Yep :0
I understand this but in my case I ask how much experience in Nyzul they have and if none than I suggest they climb first. I'm not saying to invite any joe schmoe but if I have a friend who knows their job and knows how to listen to instructions than No, I won't restrict them from trying. Now if you invite some random BLM, PLD or whatever that's on you. Personally, I don't invite anyone I've had any bad experiences with or heard bad stuff about or don't even know. I rarely lose a run unless it's some rediculous floors given (like the other nite Gents, Capricious Cassie and Dahak side by side, all and lamps then another all).
 Leviathan.Marzanna
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By Leviathan.Marzanna 2009-11-25 16:31:54  
Bahamut.Rocha said:
PLD can't do enough dmg lol and who needs a tank when you got Fanatics Drink

Not going to read all 4 pages coz well I don't really care. But, something in your post just seemed wrong... Staff?? /NIN and dual wield with a joytoy at least or something :S
 Odin.Kalico
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By Odin.Kalico 2009-11-25 17:17:46  
You know Whm can pull off some decent #'s with 2 clubs /nin
hex Ws. Does this mean we should inv a Whm/nin w a good
DD set up to come DD in Nyzul? LMAO :0
 Fenrir.Rinielenika
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By Fenrir.Rinielenika 2009-11-25 17:21:12  
I didnt read all this but I totally had to comment because...

Our Nyzul static:

PLD/DNC (<3!!), SAM/DNCx2 (or /WAR in cases), BLU/NIN, RDM/WHM, THF/DNC.

PLD tanked, cured, and helped take enfeebles off party. He had joytoy was was getting TP like mad. The SAM's did a good amount of damage. the BLU damaged out and also stunned a lot of the bad stuff. THF was fast puller, cured, took us up on floors, and also took enfeebles off the party. Everyone could pretty much take care of themselves, while myself on RDM did most cures, kept people buffed, debuffed mobs, etc.

it was AMAZING. we RIPPED into Nyzul and completed it within about... 2-3 months, and a lot of the time most of us couldnt get on/didnt have 4 tags sometimes.

PLD helped me as a RDM so much. He did an amazing job, as did the whole team.

Granted some combinations do "better" or "worse" but as far as I know? Any job has a reasonable use in Nyzul. Its the GROUP that counts, and how people work TOGETHER to complete the floors. Not about e-peen.
 Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2009-11-25 17:28:31  
Fenrir.Rinielenika said:
I didnt read all this but I totally had to comment because...

Our Nyzul static:

PLD/DNC (<3!!), SAM/DNCx2 (or /WAR in cases), BLU/NIN, RDM/WHM, THF/DNC.

PLD tanked, cured, and helped take enfeebles off party. He had joytoy was was getting TP like mad. The SAM's did a good amount of damage. the BLU damaged out and also stunned a lot of the bad stuff. THF was fast puller, cured, took us up on floors, and also took enfeebles off the party. Everyone could pretty much take care of themselves, while myself on RDM did most cures, kept people buffed, debuffed mobs, etc.

it was AMAZING. we RIPPED into Nyzul and completed it within about... 2-3 months, and a lot of the time most of us couldnt get on/didnt have 4 tags sometimes.

PLD helped me as a RDM so much. He did an amazing job, as did the whole team.

Granted some combinations do "better" or "worse" but as far as I know? Any job has a reasonable use in Nyzul. Its the GROUP that counts, and how people work TOGETHER to complete the floors. Not about e-peen.

Kinda like my static
PLD/DNC(uber fun) SAM/NIN X2 MNK/NIN DRG/SAM RDM/WHM
 Shiva.Clowdd
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By Shiva.Clowdd 2009-11-25 17:35:22  
Odin.Kalico said:
You know Whm can pull off some decent #'s with 2 clubs /nin
hex Ws. Does this mean we should inv a Whm/nin w a good
DD set up to come DD in Nyzul? LMAO :0

So what does that have to do with inviting a pld to nyzul?
A pld CAN be effective in Nyzul and yes I agree pld/dnc is nice. But whimja? C'mon you're digging deep just to argue it seems.
 Odin.Kalico
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By Odin.Kalico 2009-11-25 17:39:27  
The Op asked why he was getting a no thanks
when he responded to nyzul shouts wanting to come as Pld.
you can do nyzul 6X pup and still win but doesn't mean a
it should be done or a better set up won't give you better results.
basically we believe that putting a DD in that pld slot
when doing nyzul, winning will be faster with a higher sucess rate
thats all.
 Cerberus.Geldric
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By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-11-25 17:46:49  
I have no idea which side your on from that post.
 Odin.Kalico
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By Odin.Kalico 2009-11-25 17:52:45  
***... Any DD will out perform a PLD
when it comes to nyzul period.
I cann't be any more clear than that :0
 Cerberus.Katarzyna
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By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-11-25 18:07:20  
A PLD in a Nyzul party means the entire party has to be built around the PLD to make up for what the PLD is lacking (mainly, damage.) No one, especially a shout pick up party, wants to be bothered with limiting their entire set up simply because they added a PLD instead of a DD to the mix.

You guys make wonderful tanks, but damage wise, you guys are meh. I would rather go with a heavy hitting DD and make it almost a sure win than a PLD and possibly lose because mobs weren't dying fast enough.

My suggestion? Get a static. Or form a static. That way, you can work the party around your specific needs. You don't bring the damage. So find people who can make up for your shortcomings.

You guys do make wonderful tanks though <3
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 Lakshmi.Aaroca
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By Lakshmi.Aaroca 2009-11-25 20:52:50  
This almost reminds me when my static started, we cleared 1-20 with smn, whm, rdm, war, drk, sch. lol.

I would really accept any combination of jobs for the lower floors, however as the floors start getting harder I would certainly not invite a pld. As well as a few other jobs.

 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-11-25 20:59:24  
Quote:
I said rdm/nin it can out DD a pld/nin. I'm basing it on
me soloing on both jobs on tough mobs in the past.

You mean rating Tough mobs?

Cause you don't melee anything objectively looking for damage that's remotely tough solo on RDM...

Joy/Justice/---/Sting
Turban/PCC/Suppa/Brutal
Hauby+1/Homam/Toreador's/Rajas
Cuch/Swift/Homam/Homam

is what I'd mess around DDing with on PLD. Are you saying a RDM can beat that?

Hell you can even PLD/SAM with a Gswrd in Nyzul and such if you really wanted =P

Before anyone says anything~ 2h update means good accuracy, Nyzul is low evasion mobs anyway and Spinning Slash is a very consistent weaponskill.

Not gonna decide which is better between the two setups (I'd imagine the dual sword one) but it's an option. Paladin DD capacity is a bit underrated, even when not talking Atonement.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2009-11-25 21:00:59  
It's not really topic-related but Spinning Slash has to be one of the best WSs in the game, hands down.
 Siren.Buddah
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By Siren.Buddah 2009-11-25 21:19:15  
IMO~ the leader of that run was probably not willing to "try" to win w/ a PLD. He'd rather have a pt setup thats gonna have a sure win, if anything (less stress for him considering its a pick-up pt w/ ppl he doesnt know anything about). Having a good pld DD'er means a few things need to happen; he has to be able to trust you (i doubt that was the case), said PLD would have to be experienced in such setup and have the gear specialized for w/e happends.
All in all, id say he just didnt want to risk it cuz he was the one putting the effort to make the run.

My advice...
"If you want things done right, you'll just have to do them yourself"
setup your own run, and if anyone has a problem w/ u going PLD, give em a swift boot...

Cheers
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 Caitsith.Lerond
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By Caitsith.Lerond 2009-12-04 17:01:26  
Pld get access to some powerful Staves and have A- skill rating in it compared to B for the Great Sword.

Retribution does nice dmg also if you have a decent ws gear setup.
 Gilgamesh.Ittoryu
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By Gilgamesh.Ittoryu 2009-12-04 17:15:18  
nyzul is easy, bringing a pld instead of a dd shouldn't affect it. But this is coming from someone who wanted to do nyzul as a pld too, lmao.
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