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Really Drgs?
 Siren.IhmVIP
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-05-31 12:18:50
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Sylph.Lotusbluete said: didnt wanna open a new topic for that.
just a quick question - what gear swaps would you suggest for jumps? i know you need vit gear, but which pieces are most common?
tyvm in advance :D
Not a dragoon Prodigy or anything, but any gear that increases TP gained on Jumps seems to be the most important if it brings you to that key WS point faster. Only to the point that it maintains your x-hit. Anything beyond that is pointless.
Gear it like a WS with a VIT mod (Jump) obviously... there's really not a lot of places to throw in VIT though. I think Bibiki Seashell's the only less than obvious choice, Ares' Cuirass is a beast anyway... maybe the Gauntlets but I don't recall off hand how they stack up against Heca Mittens outside the full set. Avoid using Aurum Cuirass (if you have it) provided you don't need the accuracy from it.
So, after my last fail comment on attack on jumps, yeah, ignore that, I retract my statement and admit I failed on that and dunno why I thought that... anyway...
Head pieces for jump. What would you guys suggest using? I have both Askar helm (4 STR and VIT seems good) or Drachen Armet +1 (8 VIT) which both seem pretty good. What would you guys suggest though?
 Ragnarok.Flippant
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By Ragnarok.Flippant 2010-05-31 14:58:00
I don't mess around with this math stuff much, but I was curious myself how valuable VIT is and seems no one is answering, sooooo here we go (be easy on me if I totally messed up).
ffxiclopedia and BG wiki give two different formulas, but the results aren't that far apart considering the numbers we're working with. I think ffxiclopedia's missing the pdif part and I can't find the fabled Jump discussion page it refers me to, so I'll just snap it in (if I may do so):
Jump1 (ffxiclopedia):
(D+fSTR)*(1+(VIT/256))*(pdif)
Jump2 (BG wiki (treats it like WS)):
(D+fSTR+WSC)*(pdif)*(fTP)
[fTP = 1; VIT = 50% mod]
Also, not sure if numbers are rounded. I assumed they're all truncated at the final step and that percentages are truncated throughout. Correct me if this is wrong ~_~
Ignoring pDIF since it's random and I don't know my attack (but keep in mind that there will be higher attack on Heca>Maats>Askar):
My own stats for jump without head:
STR: 107
VIT: 82
Jump1: 138
Jump2: 140
Maat's (STR+7 VIT+7):
STR: 114
VIT: 89
Jump1: 143
Jump2: 144
Askar (STR+4 VIT+4):
STR: 111
VIT: 86
Jump1: 140
Jump2: 142
Hecatomb (STR+11 VIT+0):
STR: 118
VIT: 82
Jump1: 142
Jump2: 142
Wyrm+1 (STR+0 VIT+8):
STR: 107
VIT: 90
Jump1: 141
Jump2: 143
Looking at BG's formula alone, it could be looked at as 1STR = +.25 while 1VIT = +.43, which you could sum up as 2STR = 1VIT for lazy reference.
But...this is also ignoring +DEX (7 on Maat's, 4 on Askar, 5 on Hecatomb) which I tend to lean towards on Jump for crit rate, which may or may not be worth it... But I'm too lazy to try to do all that math and I have a feeling I did everything wrong anyway!
*hopes someone else steps in to give Ihm a real answer*
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-05-31 17:49:42
Yeah, when I tried *** with the formula I found vit was better, but I wanted to see what everyone else had to say about it.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-31 19:58:06
Just working out the base damage portion or it (wiki's formula should be correct btw per more recent data, didn't notice any glaring errors) ignores STR's contribution through attack, but it'll still give you a pretty good idea of what piece is better.
3 attack won't be enough for Askar to overtake AF+1 though.
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-06-01 06:00:50
Next question then.
Hecatomb Harness + Barone Cosciales
vs
Askar Korazin + Aurum Cuisses
Assuming I need one of those two pairs to keep my 6hit build up.
Or does is it based on the rest of my gear? If so, I can post the rest.
I'm thinking Askar + Aurum, but the Acc loss from not using Heca may kill it...
Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-01 06:17:36
5STR, 3ACC, 1ATT vs 4 VIT
If 1 VIT = 2STR on jumps this is going to be a situational thing.
Depending on other gear and mob I would probably go for the more aggressive build (Askar + Aurum). Also, depending on the rest of your set, just swapping from Homam to Aurum is an increase in accuracy (+3), which means your jump set will be more accurate than your TP build; so assuming your TP set is capped then you should fine still be capped.
 Phoenix.Miraun
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By Phoenix.Miraun 2010-06-01 06:38:47
Your sample is based on 2 jumps per gearset...
2STR=1VIT is a terrible misrepresentation.
1 VIT directly adds .39% Damage (1/256)
1 STR adds 1 Base damage 25% of the time, and .66 ATT.
Normal merit mobs have about 320 Defense, so the ATT increases your CRatio by .2%
I'll ballpark and say that a normal geared DRG should be pushing about 120 base damage based on Weapon + fSTR, so the potential +1fSTR would be an increase of .77% 25% of the time, or a total increase of .19%
So you're looking at .39% increase from 1 VIT, or ~.39% from 1 STR
STR and VIT are equal for the purposes of Jump damage.
Calculate your own ACC based on the mobs you're fighting to determine if you need more ACC in your jump set or not... my current job set is as follows:
V.Fork / Pole / -- / Black
Ares / Love / Brutal / Minuet
Ares / Heca / Rajas / Iota
Forager's / Wyrm / Ares / Heca
Note: Drachen Greaves are the best jump feet piece you can wear... I had tossed mine long ago (before the enhancement stats were known) and have been too lazy to request. Their increase in jump damage outdoes the 5th piece of Ares taking into account the 5% DA.
http://code.google.com/p/mirauns-drg-spreadsheet/
(I haven't updated it with new items in a while, and I think some of the pDIF equations have been researched and further refined)
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By Phoenix.Miraun 2010-06-01 06:40:25
Ihm, it's completely dependent on what you're fighting and the rest of your gear.
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-06-01 06:42:33
Ok, so my jump set is now...
Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-01 06:43:22
That will teach me for trying to post on a topic I have a very limited understanding off (I was using previously made assumptions as I was too lazy to go back to first principles).
Time to lurk more in the DRG forum I guess.
Edit: Before I leave, sell the Cerb mantle, buy foragers and do more damage. If you need the Enmity for another job then buy a Toreador's cape, you will be in profit overall (on most servers)
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-01 06:46:48
Check your PMs, Argettio! :(
Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-01 06:50:07
Checked, writing back now :)
It may take me a while :P
Phoenix.Miraun
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By Phoenix.Miraun 2010-06-01 06:50:09
Yay Raen!
Ihm... do you find yourself commonly jumping while in the red HP? Sure, you could use the Drake Ring, but it won't have any effect more commonly than it will.
Other than that, it's fine.
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-06-01 06:54:15
Valefor.Argettio said: That will teach me for trying to post on a topic I have a very limited understanding off (I was using previously made assumptions as I was too lazy to go back to first principles).
Time to lurk more in the DRG forum I guess.
Edit: Before I leave, sell the Cerb mantle, buy foragers and do more damage. If you need the Enmity for another job then buy a Toreador's cape, you will be in profit overall (on most servers)
I use the Cerb due to inventory space, its for my PLD mainly, I plan on getting a Cerb +1 soon anyway.
Phoenix.Miraun said: Yay Raen!
Ihm... do you find yourself commonly jumping while in the red HP? Sure, you could use the Drake Ring, but it won't have any effect more commonly than it will.
Other than that, it's fine.
Last time I checked, the drake ring was <75%, which is yellow, so yes, I do lol. But I have 2 sets, I use my Uthalems Ring if I'm not bleedin'.
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-01 06:54:25
Cheers~ and hi Miraun!
And yeah, if you Spellcast a lot then it's worth using Drake Ring. Otherwise just stick an acc/STR ring there. I see a lot of people advocating full melee accuracy for High Jumps and stuff... while HJ doesn't do that much damage I think this is a small mistake since there is no reason to HJ in more accuracy than your TP gear (which should be capped anywhere on DRG really)!
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-06-01 07:02:14
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Cheers~ and hi Miraun!
And yeah, if you Spellcast a lot then it's worth using Drake Ring. Otherwise just stick an acc/STR ring there. I see a lot of people advocating full melee accuracy for High Jumps and stuff... while HJ doesn't do that much damage I think this is a small mistake since there is no reason to HJ in more accuracy than your TP gear (which should be capped anywhere on DRG really)!
Yeah, I do use Spellcast lol.
My High Jump set is
Really curious if the Drake Ring and Drachen Greaves "Jump" enhancement means just JUMP or all Jumps... Someone needs to test it >.>;;;
Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-01 07:21:51
Siren.Ihm said: Greaves "Jump" enhancement means just JUMP or all Jumps... Someone needs to test it >.>;;;
This has been a point of debate for a long time, and I am not update enough to know the current thinking, although the last I heard was it enhances the Jump line of ablities and therefore covered all 3.
@ Raen, replied
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-06-01 07:32:35
High Jump doesn't get the boost
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-01 07:40:38
I did some VERY (read: VERY) basic tests once and I had no reason to believe that High Jump was affected by Drachen Greaves. I would not take this for granite though.
Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-01 07:50:08
I R Wrong again (maybe)
I am doing well in this thread :P
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-01 08:06:04
Well at least you don't use the whole "U DIDN'T TEST THAT YOURSELF U ARE ALL SHEEP" logic which seems to get thrown around a lot here :p
I have no idea. My "tests" are not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination. Basically I did ~30 High Jumps, recorded damage numbers, compared with what they should theoretically be if there was an Attack bonus. None of them were inconsistent (I discounted obvious criticals). This is a laughably low sample size.
Phoenix.Miraun
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By Phoenix.Miraun 2010-06-01 08:06:53
I agree with Raen, I've never seen anything that stated definitively that Greaves improve HJ... just Jump...
Although Wyrm Greaves are another good macro piece for high jumps (50% to 60% hate reduction based upon testing)
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-06-01 08:12:58
Phoenix.Miraun
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By Phoenix.Miraun 2010-06-01 09:36:53
Thats what I said... and by said, I mean meant...
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-01 09:42:17
DRG AF2 is harder to get than Ebody.
Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-06-01 09:43:13
Phoenix.Miraun said: Thats what I said... and by said, I mean meant...
I know, I was just messing with you ^^
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-06-01 09:45:58
Greaves were the leg armor in Morrowind and Oblivion. Idk why they did that. Now I get them mixed up all the time also.
Phoenix.Miraun
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By Phoenix.Miraun 2010-06-01 09:52:44
I've also seen items called arm greaves... however, taking a look at dictionary.com, I found:
pl.n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)
The unmelted residue left after animal fat has been rendered.
–nounArmor.
a piece of plate armor for the leg between the knee and the ankle, usually composed of front and back pieces.
n. Leg armor worn below the knee. Often used in the plural.
only in 1 Sam. 17:6, a piece of defensive armour (q.v.) reaching from the foot to the knee; from French greve, "the shin." They were the Roman cothurni.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-06-01 10:00:03
Bahamut.Raenryong said: DRG AF2 is harder to get than Ebody.
Good thing I have my full set then >_>
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-01 11:35:55
So far as I know they only enhance the enmity shedding property of High Jump. I only use them if staying below the hate threshold is a priority. There are better things to use when parsing competitively on fodderish targets.
(Rant time >.> )
What happened to this job the past year or so?
Drg was my first 75 started leveling it back when the 2 hour was still call wyvern (fun days) and I've always loved the job a lot. But you know lately from the past year or so there's bee a shit load of piss poor drgs running around or is it just me seeing this?
Note I don't have screen shots of any of these mostly going off what I've seen at merit camps; events and so on the past few weeks. (yay for playing on ps2 and on pc trying to take screen caps it crashes the system \o/ yay windows)
First one:
That's all full timed gear; no swaps didn't eat any food and when asked why he was wearing that his response "My acc is good" /headwall
Next:
The Galea has acc+10, atk+5; ws acc+15 str+4; Lance had some dmg +1 and str+3 augment I think (can't really recall but it wasn't that great.); Would swap flame ring and raja's ring in for weaponskill otherwise it full timed that gear.
Third:
I don't get this one. Wears dusk feet as the only form of haste; no turban, no dusk gloves, not even wearing a headlong belt I mean seriously? None of that was swapped out during weaponskill either. Nothing says "Fear my drg!" like seeing a 400 dmg penta on a Greater.
Fourth:
More full timed goodness. Sad thing was this drg had drakesbane and didn't blink once to gear for it -.-;
Last:
Get to see this the other night. You'd think it's some kind of str set for wheeling thrust or w/e but it's not. That's all more full timed gear and wtf at the Gae Bolg?
There's probably more examples but I can't think of anymore off the top of my head :/ it's just frustrating.
I don't try to nit pick other peoples gear (Your 12.95 blah blah blah) but seriously what the hells happened to this job? I remember seeing way better drg's gear and skill wise a while back but all I see now is this? =/ Has this job really become that big of a bandwagon job that people don't gear for shit and just think that "Omaigawd I'm great for merits now :D" Is it really that hard to get decent gear with all the new stuff out? Oh well just needed to vent about this. (Sorry if there's a topic for this somewhere Didn't see it lol and don't mind my spelling/grammar wasn't really my strong point lol.)
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