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Evidence for God. Really?
Sylph.Oddin
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1756
By Sylph.Oddin 2010-06-04 22:23:40
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
It's your "belief" that there is no God correct? There we go.
Also I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but it is still a belief.
I find it funny that you call me pathetic when you clearly won't listen to the words of others.
I don't believe that there is no God...
What's the point of believing that?
Double negative?! In my forums!? GTFO!
What's the point in making these threads? If there is a God, aren't you just wasting your time and pissing him off by taking His name in vain so much? For shame... you're going to burn in Hell.
Ragnarok.Psyence
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-06-04 22:24:06
Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
It's your "belief" that there is no God correct? There we go.
Also I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but it is still a belief.
I find it funny that you call me pathetic when you clearly won't listen to the words of others.
I don't believe that there is no God...
What's the point of believing that?
That's what an atheist is...
You really don't get it lol
OK, do you think it's possible not to have beliefs? Or at least to avoid them?
Give it a name.
And call me that. And you can keep believing whatever you want about atheism.
Problem solved.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:24:43
Ragnarok.Psyence said: The trouble with the world is that the stupid are so confident while the intelligent are full of doubt.
- Bertrand Russell
You might want to consider that
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サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:25:08
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
It's your "belief" that there is no God correct? There we go.
Also I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but it is still a belief.
I find it funny that you call me pathetic when you clearly won't listen to the words of others.
I don't believe that there is no God...
What's the point of believing that?
That's what an atheist is...
You really don't get it lol
OK, do you think it's possible not to have beliefs? Or at least to avoid them?
Give it a name.
And call me that. And you can keep believing whatever you want about atheism.
Problem solved.
Agnostic
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1085
By Asura.Israfel 2010-06-04 22:25:22
Sadly with your posts, you sound much like the former.
Edit: @ psy
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5163
By Asura.Daleterrence 2010-06-04 22:25:33
Psyence, I was going to write a small essay/rant on belief for you. I was half way through it, then I read your original post again. You have a very bleak outlook on creation as a whole, thus you aren't worth my time past 2 rather amusing pictures, my own beliefs in summary and this post, as I don't believe anything I say will change how you think. As such, and in the stereotypical English way, I bid you good day.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-06-04 22:25:33
Ragnarok.Psyence said: I don't believe that there is no God...
What's the point of believing that?
Ok check, so you're not debating the existence or non-existence of a god or gods then.
What are you trying to do debate then?
Shiva.Weewoo
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-04 22:25:36
It's a paradox. Kinda like the concept of zero; being: the absence of value. While at the same same by giving it that definition gives it value in of itself.
/mindfuck
Ragnarok.Psyence
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-06-04 22:25:59
Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: The trouble with the world is that the stupid are so confident while the intelligent are full of doubt.
- Bertrand Russell
You might want to consider that
Dude, you just accused me of being too confident in my atheist beliefs. I rest my case.
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Phoenix.Degs
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2448
By Phoenix.Degs 2010-06-04 22:26:19
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Leviathan.Hastefeet said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Phoenix.Degs said: for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
lol that's the perfect phrase for what I've been thinking
Dude... being unsure of yourself is not a negative thing... o_O
What did you learn in school -_-
When your trying to argue about something I think it's best to know what you're talking about The trouble with the world is that the stupid are so confident while the intelligent are full of doubt.
- Bertrand Russell you being the stupid part of it all ... right!
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Leviathan.Hastefeet
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:26:29
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Leviathan.Hastefeet said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Phoenix.Degs said: for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
lol that's the perfect phrase for what I've been thinking
Dude... being unsure of yourself is not a negative thing... o_O
What did you learn in school -_-
When your trying to argue about something I think it's best to know what you're talking about The trouble with the world is that the stupid are so confident while the intelligent are full of doubt.
- Bertrand Russell
you're so sure there is no god, so you just called urself stupid
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Sylph.Oddin
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1756
By Sylph.Oddin 2010-06-04 22:27:14
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
It's your "belief" that there is no God correct? There we go.
Also I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but it is still a belief.
I find it funny that you call me pathetic when you clearly won't listen to the words of others.
I don't believe that there is no God...
What's the point of believing that?
That's what an atheist is...
You really don't get it lol
OK, do you think it's possible not to have beliefs? Or at least to avoid them?
Give it a name.
And call me that. And you can keep believing whatever you want about atheism.
Problem solved.
...
So you're saying you have no belief either way which means you don't care either way... yet you make a thread stating that you so adamantly care what others think?... Trolling at its finest.
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Leviathan.Hastefeet
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:27:15
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said:
-Actually it isn't an "absence of belief" it is a belief that there is no supernatural deity.
How is it possible for anyone to have a "belief that a belief is not a fact"? You're destroying logic. You don't even understand what a belief is.
You need to open a non-religious dictionary, read some definitions. Then we could have a serious talk. Changing words to adapt them to your own thinking... this is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Here, educate yourself if you wish.
It's your "belief" that there is no God correct? There we go.
Also I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but it is still a belief.
I find it funny that you call me pathetic when you clearly won't listen to the words of others.
I don't believe that there is no God...
What's the point of believing that?
That's what an atheist is...
You really don't get it lol
OK, do you think it's possible not to have beliefs? Or at least to avoid them?
Give it a name.
And call me that. And you can keep believing whatever you want about atheism.
Problem solved.
I'm gonna go ahead and call you a ***
Leviathan.Hastefeet
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:28:07
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: The trouble with the world is that the stupid are so confident while the intelligent are full of doubt.
- Bertrand Russell
You might want to consider that
Dude, you just accused me of being too confident in my atheist beliefs. I rest my case.
rest your case on a quote that just failed on your part... wtf is going on are you HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE?
Phoenix.Degs
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2448
By Phoenix.Degs 2010-06-04 22:28:09
Phoenix.Degs said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Leviathan.Hastefeet said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Phoenix.Degs said: for someone who has so much "faith" in what he believes .. OP sure sounds unsure of himself, to make that many threads
lol that's the perfect phrase for what I've been thinking
Dude... being unsure of yourself is not a negative thing... o_O
What did you learn in school -_-
When your trying to argue about something I think it's best to know what you're talking about The trouble with the world is that the stupid are so confident while the intelligent are full of doubt.
- Bertrand Russell you being the stupid part of it all ... right! faith is about having questions, having some answers and not all of them, you seem to think you have all the answers and are pretty dumb to be honest
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5163
By Asura.Daleterrence 2010-06-04 22:29:17
Oh, one more thing, this is an age old argument, a bunch of MMO'ers on a forum aren't going to sort it out.
/bed
Lakshmi.Fullen
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 25
By Lakshmi.Fullen 2010-06-04 22:30:50
you have a point but its a narrow minded one, i agree modern society has outgrown religion but it still serves a purpose.
Only a few hundred years ago religion was the only thing stopping anarchy, it was used to scare people into believing that actions have other worldly consequences.
If a stranger wondered onto your land, religion was the difference between helping him or killing him and eating him as choosing the latter would anger whichever "god".
In modern society religion is still around mainly from curiosity in my opinion (in western culture anyway) because its hard for the mind to accept that life has no purpose, people want to know why they are here and only really religion can answer that.
The world isn't ready to change because the reality is too harsh, if you told a child that we are here with no purpose and once the electrical impulses in our brains stop we're nothing but meat you're only going to depress him.
I'd rather live in a world with motivational nonsense than one where nobody cares about anything~
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-06-04 22:30:57
Asura.Daleterrence said: Oh, one more thing, this is an age old argument, a bunch of MMO'ers on a forum aren't going to sort it out.
/bed I thought the world's greatest ideas came from that.
Damn...
Phoenix.Degs
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2448
By Phoenix.Degs 2010-06-04 22:30:57
Asura.Daleterrence said: Oh, one more thing, this is an age old argument, a bunch of MMO'ers on a forum aren't going to sort it out.
/bed gn!
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2010-06-04 22:31:18
Guys don't rip on him, he has his beliefs and clearly believes (or non-belief whatever) in them. I think he is agnostic, he has no belief in any religion but can consider the possibility of a god. I think he is serious, and was just trying to find an outlet for his words.
Shiva.Weewoo
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-04 22:32:32
It's as silly to stamp a lack of evidence as a truth than to ignore this same lack of evidence and believe in a supernatural figure that for as long as we have existed has not brought any tangible evidence to support it's own existence.
Truth is, none of us know for sure. So to blatantly call out one over the other on either side is pretty derp.
Sylph.Oddin
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1756
By Sylph.Oddin 2010-06-04 22:32:48
Lakshmi.Fullen said: you have a point but its a narrow minded one, i agree modern society has outgrown religion but it still serves a purpose.
Only a few hundred years ago religion was the only thing stopping anarchy, it was used to scare people into believing that actions have other worldly consequences.
If a stranger wondered onto your land, religion was the difference between helping him or killing him and eating him as choosing the latter would anger whichever "god".
In modern society religion is still around mainly from curiosity in my opinion (in western culture anyway) because its hard for the mind to accept that life has no purpose, people want to know why they are here and only really religion can answer that.
The world isn't ready to change because the reality is too harsh, if you told a child that we are here with no purpose and once the electrical impulses in our brains stop we're nothing but meat you're only going to depress him.
I'd rather live in a world with motivational nonsense than one where nobody cares about anything~
Or you motivate that child to make something of themselves in this life because all we have is this life.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-06-04 22:33:37
Ragnarok.Psyence said: OK, do you think it's possible not to have beliefs? Or at least to avoid them?
Give it a name.
And call me that. And you can keep believing whatever you want about atheism.
Problem solved.
This was the point of the thread here.
Let's call it non-believers.
Done.
Shiva.Weewoo
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-04 22:35:25
Lakshmi.Feifongwong said: Guys don't rip on him, he has his beliefs and clearly believes (or non-belief whatever) in them. I think he is agnostic, he has no belief in any religion but can consider the possibility of a god. I think he is serious, and was just trying to find an outlet for his words.
Also this. I don't know why anyone would get so butthurt over someone else's own individualistic set of thoughts/beliefs.
Sure it wasn't worded in the best way, but we're not all as well spoken as Jaerik for example.
You do and they don't, or you don't and they do. End of story.
Leviathan.Hastefeet
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-06-04 22:35:31
lets just call them *** who make religious threads
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 343
By Shiva.Borealis 2010-06-04 22:35:51
God is a salmon, we are the gorillas!
/THREAD
Phoenix.Degs
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2448
By Phoenix.Degs 2010-06-04 22:35:54
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Shiva.Weewoo
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-04 22:36:14
Leviathan.Hastefeet said: lets just call them *** who make religious threads
You didn't have to post in it ya know.
PS: Oh look, more butthurt. /strokes -1
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1085
By Asura.Israfel 2010-06-04 22:38:44
Shiva.Weewoo said: Leviathan.Hastefeet said: lets just call them *** who make religious threads
You didn't have to post in it ya know. I'm with Hastefeet on it though. All of Psyence's threads revolve around "Blah blah blah you're an idiot for believing in God, God doesn't exist, try to prove otherwise. Oh! and using 'faith' will make all of your arguments invalid. Then I'll wait a week or two and once I feel that it's time to piss more people off, I'll make a new thread showing in more ways how much of an egotistical *** I am."
Edit: We don't have to post here, but we do have a right to defend our beliefs. But if you don't like it, you can go elsewhere too, y'know.
The universe is immense. The only tiny spot we know that can sustain life is on Earth. Our existence spans a minuscule fraction of the time Earth will have been around before it gets destroyed by the Sun. If the preposterously small probability of life appearing by chance needs to be demonstrated, we are the living proof.
And even then, we're not all that wonderful. Our "superior" intelligence often remains questionable. We're not even necessarily going to evolve "towards the better" since that would require, according to natural selection, smart people to make more babies than people with lower IQ, for an infinite period of time. Perhaps we're even nearing a peak in terms of global human intelligence.
Considering how the entire universe is filled with chaos and how we're doomed to disappear eventually, how is our absurdly lucky and miserable existence in this universe supposed to serve as evidence for design? The more you look around us, the further you manage to reach out and explore, the more you see how it's actually quite probable that life would happen once in this big mess of colliding galaxies and dying stars.
If some gods really created this chaotic and lifeless universe around us, just to put life on 0.00000000000001% of it, and for such a silly amount of time. If they supposedly did it for us to better enjoy their own supernatural dimension after we die, they're not very skilled at this "creation" stuff. They should quit.
---------
Most creationist arguments do not describe atheism properly. Atheism simply involves not believing in a god. It's not even something that needs to proven. It's not an ideology. It's not a belief. Neither is it incompatible with agnosticism. Most atheists are agnostic too, because agnosticism follows logic.
It's an absence of belief in a supernatural deity. Nothing particularly special.
Believers are so used to believing in stuff that it's hard for most to grab the simple concept of atheism. One may argue that beliefs are natural. Of course, but they're not to be taken too seriously. Since they lack empirical evidence, they have a high chance of being wrong. Because of his lack of belief in a deity, an atheist could even wish for a god to exist (and have tons of other unrelated beliefs), and remain an atheist. Atheism shouldn't even need a definition. It is the default mindset for any baby when they're born. Also, it's impossible not to be an atheist towards at least a majority of gods. Worshiping all the gods ever invented, all at once, would quickly lead anyone to despair.
But if we're going to argue about something, please try to debate this (without needing any kind of faith-based argument) :
Being unable to prove the non-existence of anything, is perfectly normal, and doesn't prove the existence of something. You can try to reason this way, but will automatically fail, because trying to prove a negative is ridiculous. Being unable to prove a belief wrong changes nothing to the fact that a belief is fallible.
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