RDM/SCH At Level 80.

yeah my friend was doing it in abyssea, it was "lol"

awesome :D i cant wait. 2 levels to go :3

does Accesssion work with Phalanx II?

i know Phalanx is stronger, but there are times when it is unwise to run in to hit people with Phalanx. being able to cast Phalanxga from a distance could have its uses.

As far as I can tell, and Im not 80 so I cant test it, just going off the spells and JA that RDM and SCH have, seems to me that there's nothing an 80RDM/SCH can do that an 80SCH/RDM cant, besides haste.

Correct me if I`m wrong, which im sure I am, i just cant think of it atm

thats a V.. good question..

because phalanx-ga u can only hit your own party because you cast on yourself.

however if Phalanxga2 is available you could phalanx an alliance..


interesting...

btw .. refresh-ga.. SCH82 .. RDM 80...

lol i didnt even think of hitting the alliance.

i was thinking about annoying nms with aoe paralyze that i would rather stay out of range of. this would be a useful combination.

(yes, i do not have rdm 75, but i do have sch. i am bored and throwing out ideas.)

Wouldnt work across party because Im pretty sure phal2 is party only? Additionally you would only be able to maintain it on one party due to strat cooldown for /sch

@Cala The stratagem recast for sub sch is really the major disadvantage it would only allow you to -ga 1 buff fulltime. SCH main has some other spell advantages too, and faster strat recast but the differences have definitely slimmed down with the cap increase.

thing is though,

"RDM/SCH is going to hit Fast Cast caps... (Already does)" -WHM can hit the cure speed cap, while still capping cure potency and gets access to cure V. And this won't really matter in nuking since you have to pace yourself to not take hate in the first place.

"RDM/SCH lower MP costs."
-WHM SCH and BLM all have more MP AND whm/sch and sch will both have the same MP cost.

"RDM/SCH will have access to Parsimony, and now we have Tier 4 Nukes on RDM. (Water and Stone 4)" -both SCH and BLM are getting tier 5 nukes. also, BLM has Ancient Magic, and SCH has ebullence.

"RDM/SCH will have access to Erase(ga), Reraise(ga), Drain, Aspir, Hastega, Dispelga, Protect 5(ga), Regen 2(ga) and Refreshga at lv80." -reraisega and hastga wont work. whm/sch sch and blm all get aspir and drain anyways. whm gets protectra and shellra 5 (both can be merited to be better) and SCH will also get protect 5 (ga) and SCH and WHM/SCH can both do Regen 2 ga (infact WHM can regen 3 ga). and whm/sch and sch will both have erasega aswell Refreshga is the first unique thing so far.

"RDM/SCH can use Composure and Accession, thus question that remains to be answered is will the lengthened enhancing magic effect extend to the entire party." -doesn't work as far as i know


also keeping in mind, /SCH is the best sub for whm. It's not losing anything important to sub it over anything else and it gains so much, there's no reason (endgame wise) to really sub anything else. RDM on the other hand has /drk which is still built into alot of strategies so you're not gunna be /sch all the time, meaning you lose all these benefits, where WHM/SCH, SCH, and BLM do not.


so, no RDM/SCH isn't going to be the new endgame god. WHM still heals better, SCH and BLM nuke better. SCH itself makes a better overall healing and nuking combo than RDM does. The only thing RDM/SCH has going for it that's special over anything else is refreshga, which is basically "welcome to the BLM party refresh ***, now keep the BLMs refreshed while you slow II and paralyze II the lolgenbu"

If this works, it would be the ultimate NinjaLot.

IMO, D2 should be like Raise and Tractor, and the player receiving the spell must accept first.

just going to mention this was initially a thread about endgame and rdm/sch and i can tell you that rdms solo capabilities is totally irrelevant to what anyone is talking about right now (also you wont be soloing as rdm/sch), aside from that you have 3 bullet points.

you have high enfeebling meaning you can innately stick an enfeeble better than other jobs, but that still doesn't deter the fact that other jobs can use gear to compensate and still stick enfeebles just as well ( i know a whm who sticks enfeebles better than a lot of rdms do, because he took the time to make a badass enfeeble set )

paraII/slowII are a nice addition, as is refresh II, however all it really means now is that when you're stuck refreshing the BLM party, you can do it faster with accession, so you can get back to casting your enfeebles as they wear off.

essentially all /sch did is jam RDM more and more into the roll of "Refresh ***" which i can guarantee is more of an update for the other MP users than it is for rdms.


(and just a footnote, im not saying i hate RDM or that it's terrible, im just saying that SCH isn't some all-amazing support job for it, that makes it better than all other mage jobs ever. It does give RDM some useable tools, but aside from refreshga, anything a RDM can do utalizing /sch things, a WHM BLM or SCH can do better.)

Takes a lot of gear, and only applies to Cures.

RDM still has native Convert, not to mention can(and should) have fully merited Convert. This means a much much much more extensive MP pool than those other jobs as long as they don't sub Red Mage. Native refresh is icing on the cake.

They're all pretty much equal in these things aside from Regenga 3.

Yeah, I'll agree, probably doesn't work.

WHM/RDM is now a viable option for White Mage due to convert. I personally doubt it can compare to /SCH right now, but we'll see how things play out. /DRK for Red Mage is pretty situational. And even then, you'd probably only have 1-3 of them at max, the other RDMs in the group could come /SCH.

Refreshga really isn't that spectacular. The ability just makes people lazy. The spell can already be put on 6 people in the party without much hassle to MP or time. The things that ARE useful are spells like Stoneskin, Phalanx, and Enspell. None of these spells can be applied to other people in the party without the use of Accession(aside from Phalanx, but that requires merits). So, basically, RDM will be able to buff the party with those spells, while still maintaining its use of Haste, Refresh, debuffs, and cures. I'll have to say that at right now(level 80 cap), RDM is pretty epic for endgame support.

No, just no. If casting things like Slow(II) and Paralyze(II), you need lots and lots of MND. If your White Mage friend is throwing away all his MND slots in order to get enough magic accuracy / enfeebling in order to land Paralyze or Slow on a monster, then he's just ruining the monster. Fortunately, Red Mages with a good potency set can overwrite lolWHMs enfeebles with Slow II and Paralyze II.

Again, no good Red Mage is going to Accession > Refresh a party. It's a complete waste compared to the other buffs you can apply.

Well, a WHM/SCH won't be able to apply Enspells or Phalanx to party members, but will assuredly cure better. MP management still won't be as good as a RDM/SCH, or even a decent RDM/anything.

BLM/SCH.. lol, very situational. Without Stoneskin or Blink, this sub is like butter. However, with the new Mana Wall ability, we may see more use with /SCH. But honestly, now with Convert available, BLM/RDM will be stronger than ever.

SCH/RDM or SCH/WHM. Right now you basically have the choice of: Do I want Phalanxga, Enspellga, and convert? or Do I want Haste?
If you're ever in the DD party, you're gonna want to sub /WHM, which is just gonna limit your MP. Or if you want lots and lots of MP you'd sub /RDM, but that will limit you as well, since you won't have Haste. Which just goes to show that a RDM/SCH could take that spot and be generally better at it, whichever it is. The only exception would be nuking, but then why won't you just invite a BLM instead?

fair enough but, where would it really make a major impact aside from cures? and while it does take alot of gear, the fact that a WHM can throw out a 1k+ cure V (and even more for Cure VI) makes the gear worth it.



SCH/RDM is the typical sub for SCH giving it convert aswell as a 4mp/tic sublimation if you have both the argute body and af head.

That was exactly my point.

alright, agreed.


I agree totally. I'm not trying to argue that RDM is horrible. what i was trying to say is yeah, what RDM gets, other jobs all have (for the most part). meaning that it's not this:
RDM is a fantastic job for support, enfeebling, and the buffs they have are awesome, and being able to AoE those buffs make them an even better support. But that being said it's not going to replace SCH WHM or BLM in any of their rolls. SCH can still aoe buff aswell (With 4 buffs every 4 minutes rather than only 2), can heal just as well but with the added ability to use rapture giving any cure a 50% bonus when needed, and can use tV nukes with ebullence, WHM gets cure VI with the ability to cap cure potency, and BLM gets higher INT, MAB job traits and stronger nukes.

First thing im going to say is, i don't know exactly what's in his enfeeble set, i've never taken the time to look, but i know he's not stupid enough to skip out on MND. Secondly when you're stuck with RDMs trying to enfeeble in full AF with amemet mantles or something, yeah it's nice to have a good whm that can actually stick the enfeebles (it's really all a matter of gear)


If im inviting a RDM for aoe buffs would it not be for refresh? if i wanted the other buffs i could simply get a SCH, who can give more buffs out more often.

WHM/SCH can throw out a cure v for 122 MP, which can be dropped to half by penury(61), and with full cure potency gea (along with MND and VIT in other slots) can cure for 1k or more, essentially bringing a tank that's dropped down to around 300ish up to full health. a RDM would have to resort to cure iV with there 10% cure potency they can get, costing 80MP per cast and need to cast it around 3 times. even if you penury 2 of those it's still 160mp as opposed to the WHMs 61 (and the whm still has another charge for penury)

wasn't saying anything about blm/sch was saying a blm can nuke better then a rdm/sch that's all


you'd be surprised at how hard a SCH can nuke for, but im not gunna get into the whole BLM vs SCH in a rdm thread.

I'll agree, I'd rather have a well geared White Mage land potent enfeebles on monsters than a trash geared Red Mage. But that's the same with anything, I'd rather invite a well geared Monk to a bird meripo than a trash geared Samurai.

Scholar is able to do more AoE buffs, but they also lack innate Haste and Refresh. If you want an all-purpose healer/support for your party, you'd still end up inviting Red Mage. If all I'm having them do is spam AoE buffs, then yeah, I'd 100% bring Scholar. That's rarely the case. Honestly, the only case I can think of is for a tank party that could use a constant Stoneskin barrage. By 99, Scholar will be ridiculously overpowered if things still go the way they are going, but for now, RDM/SCH is still the victor for general endgame support.

Like I said, White Mage is without a doubt, the best for Cures. I'd always want a White Mage in a tank party if I could. But usually, you'll have at least 2 healer/support jobs in tank parties, so who's going to be the second one? Add a Red Mage and you've added 3mp/tick refresh to the party, who can also do hasting instead of having the White Mage do it so that the White Mage can focus on curing when the tank suddenly drops to 300HP.

That is a poor arguement because RDM lacks innate Stratagems. It doesn't matter if the job has it innately or not; it matters if they are able to do it or not.

At this moment, SCH/WHM has haste, and eventually, SCH/RDM will have both Haste and Refresh.

Yeah, Scholar's gonna be a complete powerhouse at 99. But right now, Scholar just doesn't have the option to Haste while gaining the benefit of convert. Red Mage has the option to AoE buff with /SCH, and still retains.. everything it was known for doing before(Haste, Refresh, Cures, debuffs, and -nas/erase with /SCH without having to /WHM). Scholar is(at this moment) still too limited. I'm not saying you won't see Scholars in parties or group events, as I hope to be one of them when I start leveling my Scholar, I'm saying that RDM/SCH currently trumps most of the support based things SCH/anything can do aside from AoE Stoneskin spam and nukes(but nuking isn't support based, so that has nothing to do with it).

Someone touched on it but didn't not actually say... why would you ever think of accession EnII spells? Its based on the persons current enhancing magic at the time of atk So your dds have 0 unless they have merits or weird gear that gives them some So it would do 0 bonus anyways, but you cant accession it anyway. Refreshga unless your in a blm party or u have 4+ people in your party you are refreshing.

i forgot who said that /whm is better for rdm , tried looking to quote but can;t find, but srsly that person don't know what is talking about, /whm is not relevant but for teles now on top of that is a big mp sink, i feel sorry for those rdms that dont have /sch

The same reason you'd do enspell1 + lowering magic evasion.

Don't know if it's been mentioned but yeah enspell2, phalanx II, baramenesia and haste don't work with accession

The point was more due to mechanics. Tier 1 Enspells are based on the caster's Enhancing magic at time of cast. In fact, they were updated to work this way when AoE'ed when SCH introduced that possibility http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/2008_-_(03/10/2008)_Version_Update_Complete! (under Battle-Related)

Enspell IIs, on the other hand, calculate damage cap (and accuracy, far as I know) per strike, based on current Enhancing Magic skill. You can test it (I have), pull skill out, damage goes down, put back in, goes back up, etc.
So AoE'ing them onto melee jobs with no native Enhancing Magic skill would likely result in a damage cap of 0, basically making the application pointless.

Now, that's not to say that they couldn't/shouldn't have updated the mechanics of En-II, as making them work like that, even just for RDMs, is pretty stupid.

Well I mean if it was AOEable it's kinda obvious they would update it just like they did enspell1 other ones. Besides the real point of enspell2 over enspell 1 is the -macc since 99% of the time you will be doing less dmg with it regardless

Actually, there are a couple considerations for usage there.

First, by limiting Enspell proc to the main weapon/first hit, you leave a window for Samba effects to proc as well. Depending on party config, that might be welcome.

Second, theoretically speaking of course, En-II would be better for two handed weapons, so again, it'd depend on what's in your party.

Since when does RDM only have 10% Curing Potency?
Surya's staff - 17%
ASA pants - 5%
Fylgja Torque (+1) 2-3%
Serpentes hands/feet - 5%
AMKD head - 3% (this one is really optional as there are better augments)
and, if you're lucky enough to have a Roundel.... 5%

Is there any proof that it can proc like that.

And sure until you account for double attack and multi hit weapons.

The real cool thing is using it to land spells that normally require ES.

Yes, they've been known to work like that since they were implemented.

Not as many 2h weapons are OAT either, though that could certainly change in the long run with Magians. It takes a relatively high DA rate to make doing twice the damage on the first hit fall behind.

While the magic evasion effect isn't bad, it's not that powerful either. It's like comparing Weight and Feint or something.

im so glad i didnt do phalnax II

I'm still not demeritting the 1 I put into it till I quit salvage lol