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How good is multihit Khanda for atonement spam?
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-07-27 13:51:48
Stop editing your posts! Gawd >_> freaking Mods thinking they are all powerful Gawds! It's uncool!
No <3 from me then, can keep wearing that silly purple hands and feet! Mwahahaha~
Haha! Thats my revenge. Be late! Be very late! Mwahaha-hahaha-hahahaha!
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 13:54:14
I'm gunna go out and see if I can break 1k on a lvl 1 mob with just random gear I use for my blm and rdm ;)
Too bad it's light day
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-07-27 14:01:03
Ramuh.Dasva said: I'm gunna go out and see if I can break 1k on a lvl 1 mob with just random gear I use for my blm and rdm ;) Too bad it's light day And start of it to. Good luck to you, Even doing 800+ would make me smile.
Sadly if RDM still had it's hate tools it would nearly wipe PLD from tanking, maybe thats why SE nerfed it.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 14:02:34
Blu has rediculous hate tools. Hell most of the buffs especially the new ones pull way more hate than a buff should lol
Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-07-27 14:04:18
iirc the OA2-3 weapons were found to be 50:30:20, but that rivals joyeuse (and, eventually, outdating it after the next update).
The OAT sword isn't worth it, unless your only job is BLU, but, if you are a RDM or PLD, do the OA2-3 sword.
Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-07-27 14:10:45
Fenrir.Luarania said: So basicly, anything you can spam Atonement on the 2-3 times sword will win, and if you need straight DoT the OAT will win, sounds like they are fairly even in their use. In this situation I think I'll stick to just waiting until next update and see how the paths advance.
Thanks for the information, I was set on doing the OAT path but see that may not be the best choice~ +1 to you Sev for asking this question.
no, they aren't fairly even in their use. if for some reason you DID need dot and were determined to be paladin, joyeuse would beat out OAT because of lower delay and higher DA proc rate. OAT does not have a use for a paladin. Of course, if it was something weak enough for pld tp to be a factor, {job change} would be the best strategy. yes i know you're pld onry. hey, won't take long to get that war the rest of the way up.
to the best of my knowledge, oathrice does something nothing else does, making it potentially quite valuable. there's no comparing the oat and the oathrice.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 14:12:29
Yes I accidentally used reactor cool lol
Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-07-27 14:19:00
Fenrir.Luarania said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Sosososo, just to clear things up: | Current | Homam | Perle | Itemset | | | | Haste | 16% | 18% | 18% | STR | 12 | 12 | 29 | Attack | 33 | 29 | 39 | Accuracy | 44 | 47 | 42 | DEX | 10 | 5 | 14 | Accuracy (incl. DEX) | 49 | 49 | 49 | :D first off, holy ***tables! @.@
back on topic, as you can see *takes pointy stick and lays it inbetween Perle and Homam* They are pretty roughly the same, the main difference once again if you want to name one is that Homam is more of a tanking type and Perle is more of a DD type. It also works even better with Atonement!!! Though for you Swift Blade should suffice, my opinion, get Perle and us that until Atonement / Homam.
please explain why homam is more of a "tanking" type and perle is more of a "DD" type.
perle is just flat out superior to hauby+3/5 homam, with the exeeption that you may want to still macro it/acp body in for shadows/flash/etc. because of the fastcast on the pants/acp body
with ares or nocturnus, the discussion becomes a little more complex but in most cases you'd still want to go with perle
lur, you'r a cool dude but so far in this thread you've said that OAT was better than OAThrice and then said they were even. you gave the wrong haste values for perle and when corrected you still recommended homam for some unfathomable reason. then you gave bad drain values
if you're determined to give out info, either qualify it with "i'm not sure about this" or fact check your stuff before you post it
[+]
Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2010-07-27 14:20:47
I think he is referring to the HP/MP gains.
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-07-27 14:22:46
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Fenrir.Luarania said: So basicly, anything you can spam Atonement on the 2-3 times sword will win, and if you need straight DoT the OAT will win, sounds like they are fairly even in their use. In this situation I think I'll stick to just waiting until next update and see how the paths advance. Thanks for the information, I was set on doing the OAT path but see that may not be the best choice~ +1 to you Sev for asking this question. no, they aren't fairly even in their use. if for some reason you DID need dot and were determined to be paladin, joyeuse would beat out OAT because of lower delay and higher DA proc rate. OAT does not have a use for a paladin. Of course, if it was something weak enough for pld tp to be a factor, {job change} would be the best strategy. yes i know you're pld onry. hey, won't take long to get that war the rest of the way up. to the best of my knowledge, oathrice does something nothing else does, making it potentially quite valuable. there's no comparing the oat and the oathrice. I thought OAT was at 45%, same as Joy. When did that end up changing? Higher delay yes but wouldn't the damage make up for that? Also yeah I could do WAR but really not interested in it.
And yeah Dasva, wasn't really forgetting BLU but I am not familer at all with their hate tools to place it. Nightfyre talks often enough, on top of other people that it can tank amazingly well but RDM was at least one of the greater tanks the game had.
As for the 1008, I'm blown away. Are you able to keep it to about 900ish on average? That is just simply amazing...
Sorry for my late responses, switch to reading manga while I wait for earth weather to spawn -.-; Once this Earthday comes around I can say goodbye to the Kuzotz region...
Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-07-27 14:24:51
Bismarck.Altar said: I think he is referring to the HP/MP gains.
so can we agree that with decent refresh/mp management, max mp really doesn't matter after your first few spells and the hp is a nice bonus but not worth sacrificing extra attack/less hitting for zeros
Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-07-27 14:26:16
Fenrir.Luarania said: Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Fenrir.Luarania said: So basicly, anything you can spam Atonement on the 2-3 times sword will win, and if you need straight DoT the OAT will win, sounds like they are fairly even in their use. In this situation I think I'll stick to just waiting until next update and see how the paths advance. Thanks for the information, I was set on doing the OAT path but see that may not be the best choice~ +1 to you Sev for asking this question. no, they aren't fairly even in their use. if for some reason you DID need dot and were determined to be paladin, joyeuse would beat out OAT because of lower delay and higher DA proc rate. OAT does not have a use for a paladin. Of course, if it was something weak enough for pld tp to be a factor, {job change} would be the best strategy. yes i know you're pld onry. hey, won't take long to get that war the rest of the way up. to the best of my knowledge, oathrice does something nothing else does, making it potentially quite valuable. there's no comparing the oat and the oathrice. I thought OAT was at 45%, same as Joy. When did that end up changing? Higher delay yes but wouldn't the damage make up for that? Also yeah I could do WAR but really not interested in it.
And yeah Dasva, wasn't really forgetting BLU but I am not familer at all with their hate tools to place it. Nightfyre talks often enough, on top of other people that it can tank amazingly well but RDM was at least one of the greater tanks the game had.
As for the 1008, I'm blown away. Are you able to keep it to about 900ish on average? That is just simply amazing...
Sorry for my late responses, switch to reading manga while I wait for earth weather to spawn -.-; Once this Earthday comes around I can say goodbye to the Kuzotz region...
it never changed you just had bad info
the damage might make up for the delay if the DA proc rate was identical to joy, but it's not, so it doesn't
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 14:27:18
Swap out homam legs for perle and swap acc ring for blitz!!! Same haste more acc and emnity.
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-07-27 14:28:53
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Fenrir.Luarania said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Sosososo, just to clear things up: | Current | Homam | Perle | Itemset | | | | Haste | 16% | 18% | 18% | STR | 12 | 12 | 29 | Attack | 33 | 29 | 39 | Accuracy | 44 | 47 | 42 | DEX | 10 | 5 | 14 | Accuracy (incl. DEX) | 49 | 49 | 49 | :D first off, holy ***tables! @.@
back on topic, as you can see *takes pointy stick and lays it inbetween Perle and Homam* They are pretty roughly the same, the main difference once again if you want to name one is that Homam is more of a tanking type and Perle is more of a DD type. It also works even better with Atonement!!! Though for you Swift Blade should suffice, my opinion, get Perle and us that until Atonement / Homam.
please explain why homam is more of a "tanking" type and perle is more of a "DD" type.
perle is just flat out superior to hauby+3/5 homam, with the exeeption that you may want to still macro it/acp body in for shadows/flash/etc. because of the fastcast on the pants/acp body
with ares or nocturnus, the discussion becomes a little more complex but in most cases you'd still want to go with perle
lur, you'r a cool dude but so far in this thread you've said that OAT was better than OAThrice and then said they were even. you gave the wrong haste values for perle and when corrected you still recommended homam for some unfathomable reason. then you gave bad drain values
if you're determined to give out info, either qualify it with "i'm not sure about this" or fact check your stuff before you post it
I was wondering about this. Should I stick with Ares for the refresh or swap out for Perle gear for the damage gains.. Secondly, with the reduction I get in HP wearing Perle gear(as Taru), would it be worth it to risk wearing Perle for things that could nom my face off?
Also, I'm currently on the Demons part of the OA2-3 sword, did we come to a consensus that it was better than Joytoy for Atonement spam? Or is it situationally better?
Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-07-27 14:32:41
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Fenrir.Luarania said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Sosososo, just to clear things up: | Current | Homam | Perle | Itemset | | | | Haste | 16% | 18% | 18% | STR | 12 | 12 | 29 | Attack | 33 | 29 | 39 | Accuracy | 44 | 47 | 42 | DEX | 10 | 5 | 14 | Accuracy (incl. DEX) | 49 | 49 | 49 | :D first off, holy ***tables! @.@
back on topic, as you can see *takes pointy stick and lays it inbetween Perle and Homam* They are pretty roughly the same, the main difference once again if you want to name one is that Homam is more of a tanking type and Perle is more of a DD type. It also works even better with Atonement!!! Though for you Swift Blade should suffice, my opinion, get Perle and us that until Atonement / Homam.
please explain why homam is more of a "tanking" type and perle is more of a "DD" type.
perle is just flat out superior to hauby+3/5 homam, with the exeeption that you may want to still macro it/acp body in for shadows/flash/etc. because of the fastcast on the pants/acp body
with ares or nocturnus, the discussion becomes a little more complex but in most cases you'd still want to go with perle
lur, you'r a cool dude but so far in this thread you've said that OAT was better than OAThrice and then said they were even. you gave the wrong haste values for perle and when corrected you still recommended homam for some unfathomable reason. then you gave bad drain values
if you're determined to give out info, either qualify it with "i'm not sure about this" or fact check your stuff before you post it
I was wondering about this. Should I stick with Ares for the refresh or swap out for Perle gear for the damage gains.. Secondly, with the reduction I get in HP wearing Perle gear(as Taru), would it be worth it to risk wearing Perle for things that could nom my face off?
Also, I'm currently on the Demons part of the OA2-3 sword, did we come to a consensus that it was better than Joytoy for Atonement spam? Or is it situationally better?
want to reply but late for work sorry ><
if no one's fielded it when i get back, which i doubt i'll answer it then
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 14:33:57
Situational ***is situational.
For atonement spam you will tp faster and generally do more dmg because of that with OA2-3. Do you want to feed that much tp though? Who knows
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-07-27 14:36:53
Ramuh.Dasva said: Situational ***is situational.
For atonement spam you will tp faster and generally do more dmg because of that with OA2-3. Do you want to feed that much tp though? Who knows
Honestly, was thinking of it mainly being a fun toy in Campaign. Mobs already spam TP moves, so that won't be an issue, but if Joyeuse is still better, then I guess this will just be a off-hander for BLU.
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-07-27 14:40:24
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Fenrir.Luarania said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Sosososo, just to clear things up: | Current | Homam | Perle | Itemset | | | | Haste | 16% | 18% | 18% | STR | 12 | 12 | 29 | Attack | 33 | 29 | 39 | Accuracy | 44 | 47 | 42 | DEX | 10 | 5 | 14 | Accuracy (incl. DEX) | 49 | 49 | 49 | :D first off, holy ***tables! @.@ back on topic, as you can see *takes pointy stick and lays it inbetween Perle and Homam* They are pretty roughly the same, the main difference once again if you want to name one is that Homam is more of a tanking type and Perle is more of a DD type. It also works even better with Atonement!!! Though for you Swift Blade should suffice, my opinion, get Perle and us that until Atonement / Homam. please explain why homam is more of a "tanking" type and perle is more of a "DD" type. perle is just flat out superior to hauby+3/5 homam, with the exeeption that you may want to still macro it/acp body in for shadows/flash/etc. because of the fastcast on the pants/acp body with ares or nocturnus, the discussion becomes a little more complex but in most cases you'd still want to go with perle lur, you'r a cool dude but so far in this thread you've said that OAT was better than OAThrice and then said they were even. you gave the wrong haste values for perle and when corrected you still recommended homam for some unfathomable reason. then you gave bad drain values if you're determined to give out info, either qualify it with "i'm not sure about this" or fact check your stuff before you post it Bismarck.Altar said: I think he is referring to the HP/MP gains. That, also fastcast. Plus you can swap the body around to fit various situations, Perle you don't have that, it's more damage based, plus having to wear all of it just to get the total haste values. Also the Homam pieces has +1 over the the Perle pieces and Turban with 5, allowing you to swap in different pieces for other uses and still keeping a bigger value of haste over Perle.
OAT did seem better to me, personally. After seeing this thread and getting new information I have changed views. Honestly they still do seem even, yes 2-3 times is special but also we don't know what SE is planning, the OAT may still get a spot if they throw us a high damage physical WS. Plus future paths, 2-3 could start getting damage added and the OAT will probably start getting reduced delay. Probably won't but it's SE, we won't know for sure unless they say it or until the update. I'm going to sit my Antea at the first split and leave it there until the next update happens and we see the next stuff.
And yeah, I messed up my haste and drain values, been a crappy morning thus far, I even admitted my mistakes =(. I usual do either have backup for my information or note that it's a speculated response, at least if I can remember I guess. I was going off memory this morning and screwed up cause of it.
*edited* I see what you ment now. My first few posts were off my phone were I did go off memory. Didn't realize the OAT and 2-3 had the same delay back then.
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-07-27 15:01:11
Ramuh.Dasva said: Situational ***is situational.
For atonement spam you will tp faster and generally do more dmg because of that with OA2-3. Do you want to feed that much tp though? Who knows
Off topic, but what do you think of the STR+ATT path sword for Blue Mage?
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 15:04:38
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Situational ***is situational. For atonement spam you will tp faster and generally do more dmg because of that with OA2-3. Do you want to feed that much tp though? Who knows Off topic, but what do you think of the STR+ATT path sword for Blue Mage? It's good. It's number 1 or number 2 swd for pretty much any spell you can have. Well assuming uncapped fstr... which is getting easier and easier to do...
It also helps your melee and ws dmg a fair amount. But I got koggles and am like 30 kills away from AO2-3 swd so yeah
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-07-27 15:13:35
Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Situational ***is situational. For atonement spam you will tp faster and generally do more dmg because of that with OA2-3. Do you want to feed that much tp though? Who knows Off topic, but what do you think of the STR+ATT path sword for Blue Mage? It's good. It's number 1 or number 2 swd for pretty much any spell you can have. Well assuming uncapped fstr... which is getting easier and easier to do...
It also helps your melee and ws dmg a fair amount. But I got koggles and am like 30 kills away from AO2-3 swd so yeah
What'd you do for Demon path? Doing imps seems like it'd take forever with whatever competition might be around, but if they repop fast enough maybe it wouldn't be so bad.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 15:18:32
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Situational ***is situational. For atonement spam you will tp faster and generally do more dmg because of that with OA2-3. Do you want to feed that much tp though? Who knows Off topic, but what do you think of the STR+ATT path sword for Blue Mage? It's good. It's number 1 or number 2 swd for pretty much any spell you can have. Well assuming uncapped fstr... which is getting easier and easier to do... It also helps your melee and ws dmg a fair amount. But I got koggles and am like 30 kills away from AO2-3 swd so yeah What'd you do for Demon path? Doing imps seems like it'd take forever with whatever competition might be around, but if they repop fast enough maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Competetion wasn't so bad except on thunderday. But then I'd just team up with dex path trialers which was nice. Also duod with some blus. Nice since I rarely have to rest with anothe blu. It did take forever but got alot of xp in the process. Like from lvl 75 to 78 I think
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-07-27 15:21:06
Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Situational ***is situational. For atonement spam you will tp faster and generally do more dmg because of that with OA2-3. Do you want to feed that much tp though? Who knows Off topic, but what do you think of the STR+ATT path sword for Blue Mage? It's good. It's number 1 or number 2 swd for pretty much any spell you can have. Well assuming uncapped fstr... which is getting easier and easier to do... It also helps your melee and ws dmg a fair amount. But I got koggles and am like 30 kills away from AO2-3 swd so yeah What'd you do for Demon path? Doing imps seems like it'd take forever with whatever competition might be around, but if they repop fast enough maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Competetion wasn't so bad except on thunderday. But then I'd just team up with dex path trialers which was nice. Also duod with some blus. Nice since I rarely have to rest with anothe blu. It did take forever but got alot of xp in the process. Like from lvl 75 to 78 I think
Damn.. was kind of hoping you'd say, "There are these really weak demons all bunched together in Castle Zvahl that you can just Grand Slam! Took me like 2hrs to do."
Guess I better get cranking.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 15:35:01
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Situational ***is situational. For atonement spam you will tp faster and generally do more dmg because of that with OA2-3. Do you want to feed that much tp though? Who knows Off topic, but what do you think of the STR+ATT path sword for Blue Mage? It's good. It's number 1 or number 2 swd for pretty much any spell you can have. Well assuming uncapped fstr... which is getting easier and easier to do... It also helps your melee and ws dmg a fair amount. But I got koggles and am like 30 kills away from AO2-3 swd so yeah What'd you do for Demon path? Doing imps seems like it'd take forever with whatever competition might be around, but if they repop fast enough maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Competetion wasn't so bad except on thunderday. But then I'd just team up with dex path trialers which was nice. Also duod with some blus. Nice since I rarely have to rest with anothe blu. It did take forever but got alot of xp in the process. Like from lvl 75 to 78 I think Damn.. was kind of hoping you'd say, "There are these really weak demons all bunched together in Castle Zvahl that you can just Grand Slam! Took me like 2hrs to do." Guess I better get cranking. Just wait till you get to 450 wamouras.... I only do it teamed up with other trial people now
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-07-27 15:47:15
Ramuh.Dasva said: Just wait till you get to 450 wamouras.... I only do it teamed up with other trial people now I will admit... that one trial alone is half the reason I'm not interested in doing the 2-3 sword at this time.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 15:48:18
Fenrir.Luarania said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Just wait till you get to 450 wamouras.... I only do it teamed up with other trial people now I will admit... that one trial alone is half the reason I'm not interested in doing the 2-3 sword at this time. I get like 60-80 done every fire day... except apparently this one since none of the str path people are here lol
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-07-27 15:52:44
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
please explain why homam is more of a "tanking" type and perle is more of a "DD" type.
perle is just flat out superior to hauby+3/5 homam, with the exeeption that you may want to still macro it/acp body in for shadows/flash/etc. because of the fastcast on the pants/acp body
with ares or nocturnus, the discussion becomes a little more complex but in most cases you'd still want to go with perle
lur, you'r a cool dude but so far in this thread you've said that OAT was better than OAThrice and then said they were even. you gave the wrong haste values for perle and when corrected you still recommended homam for some unfathomable reason. then you gave bad drain values
if you're determined to give out info, either qualify it with "i'm not sure about this" or fact check your stuff before you post it
Well for starters lowering your HP (variable by race) would be risky vs something high level if support is somewhat low. Also if you're talking about NQ haub/homam then yeah, Perle wins. But HQ Haub/Homam gives a higher hit rate more important to PLD since even with food they won't cap acc on anything relatively high. Plus the +Attack on Perle, while higher, won't increase you damage ratio to the point you'd actually notice less 0s.
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-07-27 15:53:53
Ramuh.Dasva said: Fenrir.Luarania said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Just wait till you get to 450 wamouras.... I only do it teamed up with other trial people now I will admit... that one trial alone is half the reason I'm not interested in doing the 2-3 sword at this time. I get like 60-80 done every fire day... except apparently this one since none of the str path people are here lol Ah, not bad at all really. How many people do you usually have around and how hard are they in general? I never bothered with ToAU areas and have effectivly zero experiance against many of the mobs. I mean hell, just running through the reef for the staging point had me on edge...
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-27 15:58:22
Fenrir.Luarania said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Fenrir.Luarania said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Just wait till you get to 450 wamouras.... I only do it teamed up with other trial people now I will admit... that one trial alone is half the reason I'm not interested in doing the 2-3 sword at this time. I get like 60-80 done every fire day... except apparently this one since none of the str path people are here lol Ah, not bad at all really. How many people do you usually have around and how hard are they in general? I never bothered with ToAU areas and have effectivly zero experiance against many of the mobs. I mean hell, just running through the reef for the staging point had me on edge... Well the lower ones are doable but higher def and spike+enfire move can hurt things alot and slow things down to make kills slow. When I'm soloing I just get on rdm and nuke them to death takes about 2/3s my mp if I am killing quickish. The adults are alot more annoying.
Usually there is 8-12 people here doing it on fireday... but today there is none so I'd say they might of finished since day/weather ones have much lower kill number of kills
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-07-27 16:04:59
Yeah from looking at wiki I would have truely luck based fights if I end up soloing. I'd probably look around and see if there are a lot of people killing them before I even went onto that trial (provided I was at it.)
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Trial_1206
now i could be missing something big, here, but it seems like paladin finally got its Ridill. as far as i can tell, this thing seems like it would be a dream for paladin atonement spam. Since paladins everywhere don't seem to have gone crazy over it, i am left to assume there is a catch to this thing i am missing.
assuming a ridill/mkris style 30/50/20 single/double/triple attack rate distribution, this would be beautiful
i notice the base damage is quite low. however, as far as i've read, base damage does not have anything to do with hitting for zero against high level mobs.
i'm ready to start checking the weather and start killing right now, but if this thing is worthless for some reason i'm not catching, i'd appreciate it if someone would enlighten me before i go kill seven million mobs to upgrade it
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