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God did not create the universe, says Hawking
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-09-18 16:10:38
I'm not too much of a fan of the string theory =\ seems so... disheartening lol.
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By Valefor.Auraflare 2010-09-18 16:12:09
Bahamut.Serj said: Valefor.Auraflare said: Bahamut.Stanflame said: Asura.Domz said: Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: Wow this forum is still alive???!! who woulda thought religon would be a big deal of debate :P.
topics of fantasy tend to draw in a big crowd
Religion has nothing to do with fantasy. If someone wants to be religious leave them be. I always looked at religion as a devotion to a way of life, towards a god of that religion. In some cases both religions may be worshiping the same god(s).
The topic is about theism vs Atheism yet you always see people bashing others in the thread based on their religion , it always turns out like this.
Most of the fighting you see on forums is because one side picks on someone for believing in a religion. I do not look at religion that way if anything it is just a group of people worshiping a way if life to an All Mighty being. This is why when I see people fighting it makes no sense to me.
Theism and atheism are like two sides of a coin. One can not live with out the other. Then you have people on both sides of that said coin agreeing and disagreeing with each other, then many points of views come out in a clusterfuck of a mess. With so many people on both sides agreeing and disagreeing with each other what is the point of the arguing? Then bashing people because they are from a religion you do no like.
I heard someone say this once.. "it is ok for "insert religion here" to believe in a god, but to believe in a religion is stupid"
Basically they do not hate their beliefs but what they represent? What does this have to do with anything, if it is ok if they believe in god(s), what does it have to do with religion?
A real atheist no matter what looks at all religion and treats it all the same. But there are those who only bash two religious groups with out knowing ***about any groups, and one is hated more than the other. While there are innocent people inside the religion who are good people. These are the atheists and theists that I can not stand. But more hate is coming from one side over the other who usually starts fights.
Islam (Muslims) did not do anything to fake atheist, radical terrorists are your problem. Most Christians are not going to shove ***down your throat, heck most religions will not, there are those crazy people in each religion who will. Oh and it is still not a reason to a group of people when you do not know nothing about them. Concerning Muslims to not even mention or try to base your reason for hate is that they treat women like ***, because it will go out of one ear and through my other ear. Use a better argument to hate someone, if you can not do that bash on all religions as a whole, not just two or the ones you do not like that the time. Because you are making your self look like a huge hypocrite.
Atheist also was not founded on the basis of science stop using it like a silly crutch, find something else. For theists and atheists one can not be with out the other it is that simple;
Without Theism, there can be no Anti-theism. Without anti-theism, there can easily still be Theism. (if this was not understood any theist knows science exists same as atheists)
Problem here is this these two can co-exist as what said by many a fine scientist/Physicist. Now throw in religion and science (I did not want to do this) this means they can also co-exit pretty much one is blind with out the other.
So please this stupid bickering over who is right and wrong has no valid basis. People have plenty of views , That is Steven Hawking's view. Any good person knows not to answer stuff they do not know, at the end of it all, these are only theories of how the universe started, it could be anything.
Any real atheist/theist has utter respect for everyone else's beliefs.
PS: Atheists and theist, or religious people, can all look equally HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. You will gain nothing from trying to know your origin. Deal with it and find something better to do with your time.
This a bit complicated, and I do not usually like taking part in Theologic (I cant spell worth a darn) debates... That being said I just would like to make a couple points.
Religon yes may alot of times be a crutch, however, it's not always the case (I'm a christian and saying this, go fig huh?). I for one do not get along with alot of other Christians due to them, alot of the time, taking the teachings and religious books out of proportion or out of context. (Argueing circles with my sister even for hours, many many headaches).
But i digress. Sometimes (whether this is hard to believe or not), religion is used as a way to better oneself but following a set morale code (read the bible, koran, etc.... there's a moral code in there). However much of the misunderstand comes from the whole "word of god" thing. Last i checked bible may be the word of god, but it was edited by man. God may be in theory infallible, but man is far from it. So, your left with a 'holy' book with heavy editing with things left out that do not agree with the 'church' doctrine. IE The missing gospel and others.
So you end up with 100's of different slivers of the 'same' faith, all preaching something different (yes alot remains the same, but each demonination of the same faith is different if you take the time to look.) Along with priests doing things that are in no way condoned by said faith, but get away with such transgressions none the less. Which ends up with ALOT of ppl being disillusioned from said faith, and or becoming blind to the atrocities commited.
Also, just because someone is one faith, does NOT mean in anyway mean they are nessecessarily wrong in believing in what he/she does. Everyone is allowed their own opinions and beliefs, it's called free will for a reason yes? So Aethists have their right to believe what they do or do not. Hell, I even think that they have a valid point once in a blue moon even tho I believe in a God.
I'm probably going to be flamed for this in one way or another, but quite frankly i dont care. You all have the right to disagree with me, and I will not stop you. I just wanted to say my piece, that's all
Simple spaces makes that a lot easier to read =P
And I agree somewhat. I grew up as a cathloic and it distilled a lot of good morals in me that I've kept with. I disagree with it now, but those qualities I've kept are worthwhile.
Eh, the intelligent logic was about all i could do at 6am with a migraine (American on JST). And I was told I was married to the Devil once because my husband is non christian XD. Go fig. Bit of a long story how i became disillusioned with the church, and quite frankly I'm surprised sometimes in how i was still able to maintain my faith in a God.
also, It's a bit hard to find a good priest that isn't a hypocritical *** sometimes, especially with my husband not of the same faith as i. But, it's hard to let go of the morals when they are what you were raised with all of your life, at least if your a good person at heart.
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-09-18 16:16:17
This thread is now about Quantum Physics (currently talking about theories within the string theory)
Stay on topic!
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By Valefor.Auraflare 2010-09-18 16:18:05
Sorry didn't mean to cause a derail.... @.@.... (Bad aura... *smacks forehead*)
Physics and me do not get along.... but i do agree with string theory to an extent.
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-09-18 16:19:45
Asura.Catastrophe said: Bahamut.Serj said: I'm not too much of a fan of the string theory =\ seems so... disheartening lol.
It basically just says that information stores as 2 dimensions and that the event horizon of a black hole is a 2 dimensional representation of the 3 dimensional object.
Exactly >_> It doesn't sit well with me and how my brain perceives everything.
[+]
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By Bahamut.Stanflame 2010-09-18 16:36:58
Asura.Catastrophe said: Bahamut.Serj said: I'm not too much of a fan of the string theory =\ seems so... disheartening lol.
It basically just says that information stores as 2 dimensions and that the event horizon of a black hole is a 2 dimensional representation of the 3 dimensional object.
This
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-09-18 16:43:29
Bahamut.Stanflame said: Asura.Catastrophe said: Bahamut.Serj said: I'm not too much of a fan of the string theory =\ seems so... disheartening lol.
It basically just says that information stores as 2 dimensions and that the event horizon of a black hole is a 2 dimensional representation of the 3 dimensional object.
This
Stop trying to sound smart >_>
Respond to my post D=
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By Bahamut.Stanflame 2010-09-18 16:47:06
Bahamut.Serj said: Bahamut.Stanflame said: Asura.Catastrophe said: Bahamut.Serj said: I'm not too much of a fan of the string theory =\ seems so... disheartening lol.
It basically just says that information stores as 2 dimensions and that the event horizon of a black hole is a 2 dimensional representation of the 3 dimensional object.
This
Stop trying to sound smart >_>
Respond to my post D=
I was not trying to sound smart , was just interested in string theory. I really do not like it though, but then again, when I look at stuff it is like that.
Unicorn.Marrs
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By Unicorn.Marrs 2010-10-03 03:48:33
Hawking's mad fail. Hes just trying to make himself a big deal again, after his fail on black holes, and awhile of hiding in the dark, a wanting to leave a mark before he dies. His argument relies on string theory. Which has no scientific evidence, scientific support or testability. It is thus not even an hypothesis, Hawking's argument, in a sense relies on a philosophical idea.
http://www.thetroublewithphysics.com/
Scientist need to get over string theory already. Its dead.
For a nice short article on this read here.
http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/no_strings_attached/
"Now two books, Peter Woit’s Not Even Wrong and Lee Smolin’s The Trouble With Physics, attempt to knock string theory off its perch. Together they make some pretty damning claims: both argue that string theory might be fashionable, but that it’s a false idol—and that, for all its tantalizing promise, string theory isn’t really even science. "
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-03 05:09:28
[sarcasm]
Pshhh Science!
What has science ever done for us?
Religion is way to go!
Look at all the wonderful stuff religion has brought our world!
Science is the tool of the devil and you're all going to hell for listening to it!
[/sarcasm]
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-03 05:19:23
'Tis better to beat a dead horse than to get beaten by a dead horse
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-03 05:44:21
Trollface pic w/ mustache or it didn't happen
EDIT: Guess that would be TPWMOIDH or TFPWMOIDH
Depends if trollface is one or two words
Unicorn.Marrs
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By Unicorn.Marrs 2010-10-03 16:39:32
Asura.Catastrophe said: Unicorn.Marrs said: Hawking's mad fail. Hes just trying to make himself a big deal again, after his fail on black holes, and awhile of hiding in the dark, a wanting to leave a mark before he dies. His argument relies on string theory. Which has no scientific evidence, scientific support or testability. It is thus not even an hypothesis, Hawking's argument, in a sense relies on a philosophical idea.
http://www.thetroublewithphysics.com/
Scientist need to get over string theory already. Its dead.
For a nice short article on this read here.
http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/no_strings_attached/
"Now two books, Peter Woit’s Not Even Wrong and Lee Smolin’s The Trouble With Physics, attempt to knock string theory off its perch. Together they make some pretty damning claims: both argue that string theory might be fashionable, but that it’s a false idol—and that, for all its tantalizing promise, string theory isn’t really even science. "
Fail on what? If you're talking about Black Hole thermodynamics and the Conservation of Information Paradox, he was in conflict with a proponent answerable by String Theory, Leonard Susskind.
As of Sept 29th, 2010, scientists have been able to observe analogues of Hawking Radiation.. so either you're conflicted or just biased.
You didn't answer the most important part, and that is that string theory is fail. Its been over 20 years, no evidence, no testability, no nothing. It would've been nice if it actually did something for us, like discovered dark matter (ie by predicting it), but no, now we have to try and fit string theory around dark matter. And why 10 dimensions? For no other logical reason than it helped the math in creating supersymettary in a universe where string are ASSUMED to be. And now we have multi-verse, again to help with the math of string theory, something that can never feasibly be tested or even confirmed vie math as it goes outside any scientific means. Science has been bending over for a "theory" or hope in grand unification for no other reasons that could be stated other than philosophical for a long time now. Get over it. If anyones biased, its obviously the scientist vie not being scientist.
Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2010-10-03 17:54:29
Mouse-over text:
'Guys? The Town is supposed to be good, and I thou--' 'PHYSICIST STEPHEN HAWKING DECLARES NEW FILM BEST IN ALL SPACE AND TIME' 'No, I just heard that--' 'SHOULD SCIENCE PLAY A ROLE IN JUDGING BEN AFLECK?' 'I don't think--' 'WHAT ABOUT MATT DAMON?'
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-10-03 17:56:57
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Mouse-over text:
'Guys? The Town is supposed to be good, and I thou--' 'PHYSICIST STEPHEN HAWKING DECLARES NEW FILM BEST IN ALL SPACE AND TIME' 'No, I just heard that--' 'SHOULD SCIENCE PLAY A ROLE IN JUDGING BEN AFLECK?' 'I don't think--' 'WHAT ABOUT MATT DAMON?'
I was gonna post this but forgot.
Leviathan.Raborn
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By Leviathan.Raborn 2010-10-14 22:19:28
Asura.Catastrophe said: Leviathan.Raborn said: My question is IF God Didn't Create the Universe. And Assuming the entire arguement is based on this statement: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Then who the *** created Gravity? And if that is unanswerable then who the *** created the laws of the universe? For people to be so smart, we are sure are dumb. I know Steven Hawking didn't make the laws. Gravity is a consequence of spacetime, not a causality of it. I think to say the term "creating gravity" is a misconception. The laws of the universe are a consequence to, not a causality to this cosmic collision. Win. Also what I said before
I'm unsure what your definition of consequence is. Explain.
Because if you do truthfully believe this is the case (according to my definition of consequence) then everything that occurs or ever will occur has been predetermined. Which means every thought I have ever had or action I have ever took (which also means you) is predestined to happen over and over because of the consequence of solar systems forming and reforming, therefore life is meaningless: "if I kill you today, you are reborn tomorrow on another galaxy/solar system in which I kill you again and you are reborn yet again somewhere else." So in respect, the infinite life or eternal life is real (according to all the scientific proposals made) just not a God or "creator." Which removes the individuality of each and every single person born today, tomorrow, and forever.
So to conclude, this means that in the evolution of humankind everything we consider accomplishments are actually nothing which would mean nothing exsists at all, it just occurs or happens in an infinite loop of continuum as a result of molecules and particles colliding. Which would make this post and in a larger scale of things everything that has or ever will happen pointless.
So how does that make you feel as a human being?
Edit - I also wanted to add: This does seem to come out of nowhere and you'll have to forgive me for not stating tons of mathematical equations and theorems on laws of continuums and space / time / material conversion etc etc etc. But 1 + 1 doesn't always equal to 2. (Common sense)
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