Hundred Knives

***support makes it a ***parse :( if he cant get a penta every 30 seconds atleast /SAM, its a ***DRG or ***support :( Parse one vs. a good DD and good support !

If DNC vs other DD is the argument then support is irrelevent since you should be able to hold your own with or with out a brd.

This is a pointless argument regardless...

If you dont provide fully detailed gear set with notes on merits/atma/stat buffs/abyssite boosting those buffs they they will say that is why you did better.

If you do provide all of the above then it will be noob DD who bought their character.

If you somehow cover both of those then there gunna fall back on "lolasura" >.>, there are good players on asura guys just like a restarant review people only talk about it when they had a bad experience
(don't actually know if your on asura just going by a post earlyer)

You are wearing a wivre mask

As part of an evasion set for solo yes it could have me in my idle set as well

Asura

This is the whole thing.... Dnc is DD/SUPPORT not full blown DD....
This is why it should never outparse a job that just DD's....if they are, then yes the DD do suck...

o.O DNC can DD but they are not a heavy dd / akin to a thf but with extra job abilities :X

Edit: yes dd/support sry Eikster <3 didnt see the DD/spt (and I agree)

Thank you, logic = <3

Amount of support makes a huge difference. The same support helps some jobs more than others.

Also you could say the dnc is doing the best cause look at his haste with haste samba that the DDs don't have but if you are together in the same pt you would get it too. And while if you were another dnc in the pt you wouldn't be getting more haste.

Either way I'd like to see them even touch an abyssea blu lol

And yes, outside of relic THFs, I personally think DNC would win, unless THF had a way of greatly increasing its TA which atm isnt possible

^ This

and with the logic following that MOST old dncs ~ (pre abssyea) Soloed and know the nuances of their job and can push the job to its limits vs most (not all ) Dd's who are abssyea burning and have the skills of say 5o or 60 :X

saw a dnc leeching in abssyea last night and i died a little when they asked why there is 2 different flourishes in their JA

I SMN burned my DRK and got a relic for it :X capped scythe skill w/ Apoc XD but I knew how to play it, I think key whoring is a greater plague then SMN burning just because how easy it is to do. At least SMN burning took a little effort/organization.

I seriously have no issue with how someone levels :X My issue is that these people do not have a clue how to play their jobs and/or have severely gimped skills. Now, when you solo or don't involve me in whatever you do i could care less what skill you have~ your game, do as u want~ BUT , when I event with you and I am counting on a team of "85" people to accomplish a goal.. I want to be able to have faith that they are in fact "85" with the appropriate knowledge, if that makes sense.

Why I learned a while ago, only do events with friends you know... makes things so much easier when you know basic addition could never stump your WHM. (Calling random WHMs generally HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE) :x

As a career mage I can say >.> Yes most NEW abssyea WHMs are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE as funk .-.

I do believe dnc can be a straight up DD, it has the option to do so, if like i said you throw away your survivability. Granted its not like samurai vs hnm or equivalent because of the 1 hit WS factor, against anything event related like einherjar, abyssea, dynamis etc. where you fight multiple mobs, there should be no reason to lose as dnc, personally the only job thats consistently beaten my drg or my dnc is a relic drk. DNC's damage comes equally from the sheer amount of swings, as well as the ridiculous amount of weapon skills u can pull off over time due to reverse flourish and steps, meditate and no foot rise. Because of this tp gain (ive never had a job beat me on frequency of weapon skills) and mind you these weapon skills arent particularly weak either (evisceration is awesome with stacked crit hit dmg + and mithra dex). In my eyes dnc definitely does have the potential to outdmg any dd out there, but then again it depends on the player.

DNC can not keep up with the WS frequency of a 5-6hit DD in a high haste situation, especially WAR/SAM or SAM/DRG/WAR, especially if the SAM had OAT and of course relic DRK

It won't win in a low haste situation either, parse would just be closer >.> and if you are parsing something seriously, it should be high haste to todays "melee standards"

the reason dnc can put out high numbers is because it has an easy to obtain high rate of attack per minute. if you want a damn high haste situation (and no, todays standards is not speed, you are giving people to much credit) then obviously dnc will lose because dnc's speed cant go much higher, while the other 5-6 DD's have quite a distance they can cover to reach that speed.

today's average party, exp/nm/event what you want to call it, the most you would get on normally is haste, and haste samba. at which point dnc wins in rate of tp growth and DoT.

You are not giving the newer DDs enough credit, 6hits are standard and 5 hits w/ OAT are more common, w/ haste and haste samba alone, DNC can't compete, I thought this was settled >.>

You are also over exaggerating the rate in which DNC gets TP

it was, im just pointing out that without all outside buffs, and i do mean all, dnc's DoT is much higher than you give it credit for.


also no i am not over exaggeration. 1 ws every 51 seconds on average, with no haste, pretty much main healing, and /nin. im pretty sure that shows dnc is the king of tp.

Or blu in high refresh situations ;)

i'll give it that xD, they can indeed put out some extreme numbers

Plus in abyssea a blu could potentially get 40mp/tic refresh lol. Or just 15 solo. At which point you probably gain mp faster than you can spend it lol

Mankey your argument makes no sense.. given a high haste situation it affects dnc just as much as any other job (should be obvious >_>). I'd like to see any job beat out dnc for WS frequency no matter the situation (and yes, even relic drk), its just not possible. I definitely agree with Yuna that dnc is the king of tp.

lets take this statement and break that down a second... ok a dagger's delay is like 201 at most.. so 2x 201 daggers with dual wield is 402 delay yes? now which number is greater.. 80% (haste cap) of 402 or 80% of 464 (new higher delay GKs) or 528 (scythe..used plaga scythe for this delay example...) ...the answer is the 80% of the higher delay weapons.... so yes it DOES affect them more....

DNC has a 11 hit build atm? compared to a 5-6hit OAT a option on both ends, are DNCs just *** retards or just extremely proud maybe? I get 100tp in 20 seconds or less, probably avrg 15 if I stay engaged to keep aftermath going, WAR/SAM w/ 26% Haste or SAM/DRG OAT 5hit would only get TP faster... So the statement DNC is TP King is far from correct. I will stay with DNC is haste samba ***/best healer if TP'n is a option until cap is raised and maybe DW is fixed to compete with hasso jobs

Also might add depending on what enhance samba does dnc can only hit 78% haste and that is super duper buffed and pimped. More buffs than he is ever likely to have outside of zerg. Like 2hring brd + haste spell + full gear haste + haste samba. And the relic drk he said couldn't tp as fast can get 60% haste solo for limited time.

But let's do realistic. Say just a brd giving double march for about 20% and haste spell and dnc samba for 10%.

Pimped out that would put dnc at 70. On the other hand a pimped out relic drk in that same pt can hit 78. Incase you are wondering how a relic drk can easily hit gear haste cap without a belt and Haste belt counts as magical stacking with other magical hastes and is rather easy to make/buy. Of course the drk could also just throw on alot more store tp too