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Abyssea - Efficient weakness targetting
Lakshmi.Aurilius
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2010-10-28 09:42:30
How do you not know where Blu fits in? I'm proc'ing yellows left and right.
Which elements do you need to know?
Firespit Heath Breath
Magnetite Cloud Seedspray
Regurgitation Maelstrom
Hecatomb Wave Mysterious Light
Frost Breath Ice Break
Mind Blast Blitztrahl
Radiant Breath 1000 needles
Eyes on Me Death Ray
This is all from the JP wiki, and I have used them all to proc yellow.
Lakshmi.Aurilius
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2010-10-28 09:48:30
Also to answer whoever asked before. If you lose claim and reclaim, it's as if it's a whole new claim on the mob. Meaning the time of the new claim and game day matters. You will have to switch to the new weapon type based on the game hour in order to activate the blue. You will have to switch to the correct spells based on the game day of the reclaim in order to activate yellow.
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-28 09:58:54
I've procd on spells not on that list
Also kinda on the subject of trying to proc I just started using nin spells... and this happened a few times
/nin nukes worth using for efficiency if you can get enough macc?
Leviathan.Draylo
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2010-10-28 10:01:57
What does green even do. Blue for item increase, red for keyitem/atma.
Hades.Eliane
サーバ: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4641
By Hades.Eliane 2010-10-28 10:03:46
Bahamut.Dasva said: I've procd on spells not on that list
Also kinda on the subject of trying to proc I just started using nin spells... and this happened a few times
/nin nukes worth using for efficiency if you can get enough macc?
The information about Grellow spell !! is not fully complete yet, but Red !! and Blue !! is
Hades.Eliane
サーバ: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4641
By Hades.Eliane 2010-10-28 10:05:00
Leviathan.Draylo said: What does green even do. Blue for item increase, red for keyitem/atma.
Increases amount of synthesis materials you get, and allows between 3-6 seals to drop or AFv3+2 items
Lakshmi.Aurilius
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2010-10-28 10:06:07
Blue increases the rare drops in the pool. Yellow increases the number of items (ie. seals and cards/stones/jewels/coins)
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-28 11:10:56
So here is a screenshot of bio II triggering which was not on the mindi list. And yes I know it looks like it was the thunder III but thats just cause of how fast I casted inbetween. It was my 3rd thunder III and on dark day so no way it could've been that.
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2010-10-28 11:19:43
>Elemental T3
>Elemental T4
>Elemental Aga3
>Elemental AM1
>Elemental Ninjitsu - Ni (Flash for lightsday, Kurayami Ni Darksday)
>Bard Threnody
>Blue Spell
>Blue Spell
There are no nukes for Dark spells so they are replaced by this,
Bio 2, Aspir, Dispel , Drain, Kurayami:Ni, Light Threnody, Death Ray, Eyes On Me,
for Light spells its this,
Holy, Banish 2, Banish 3, Banishga 2, Flash, Dark Threnody, Radiant Breath, 1000 Needles
All other elements follow Mindis pattern.
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-28 11:22:01
Yeah yeah just wait till I get screenshots of aga2s.
I've done it a few times before and while I have no screenshots I did have someone else there know can back me up.
Pandemonium.Ironguy
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2010-10-28 11:28:11
^
why are people still posting =(=(=(
[+]
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-28 11:40:06
And gdi. 5 seals I don't need but no key items
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2010-10-28 11:56:23
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Normally NMs in abyssea will drop 0-20% of their treasure pool, but figuring out their weakness will stack for more item drops, such as (eyeballing);
Blue (normal ws weakness): increase drops (20-30%ish)
Yellow (magic weakness): increase drops that stacks (30-40%+ish)
Red (13 elemental ws weakness): increases drops even more and stacks (10-20%ish) as well as insuring you a 100% drop rate for that key item and/or atma.
Also, doing a NMs weakness more than once each will result in less drops than it would usually yield, so do it only once.
How do you know each triggering increases overall drop rate? This is what I know, blue increases drop rate for rare items to almost 100%. Green lets you get more mats/seals etc but doesnt ensure it. Red for key items onry.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-10-28 11:58:12
Lakshmi.Aurilius said: Also to answer whoever asked before. If you lose claim and reclaim, it's as if it's a whole new claim on the mob. Meaning the time of the new claim and game day matters. You will have to switch to the new weapon type based on the game hour in order to activate the blue. You will have to switch to the correct spells based on the game day of the reclaim in order to activate yellow. Note that this only applies if all hate is lost on the NM. Having it go yellow while ANY party member still has hate will keep the original claim. This is useful to know for two different methods of confluxing NMs.
A: PersonA can pull/pop and conflux, PersonB waits for NM to go yellow and re-claims so that PersonB gets the pop key item.
B: PersonA can pull/pop and conflux adds, PersonB claims NM BEFORE PersonA confluxes, and PersonA will get the pop key item.
Hades.Eliane
サーバ: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4641
By Hades.Eliane 2010-10-28 12:23:58
Bahamut.Dasva said: So here is a screenshot of bio II triggering which was not on the mindi list. And yes I know it looks like it was the thunder III but thats just cause of how fast I casted inbetween. It was my 3rd thunder III and on dark day so no way it could've been that.
Bio always has been able to trigger !!, thats not really new
Hades.Eliane
サーバ: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4641
By Hades.Eliane 2010-10-28 12:26:15
Odin.Blazza said: Lakshmi.Aurilius said: Also to answer whoever asked before. If you lose claim and reclaim, it's as if it's a whole new claim on the mob. Meaning the time of the new claim and game day matters. You will have to switch to the new weapon type based on the game hour in order to activate the blue. You will have to switch to the correct spells based on the game day of the reclaim in order to activate yellow. Note that this only applies if all hate is lost on the NM. Having it go yellow while ANY party member still has hate will keep the original claim. This is useful to know for two different methods of confluxing NMs.
A: PersonA can pull/pop and conflux, PersonB waits for NM to go yellow and re-claims so that PersonB gets the pop key item.
B: PersonA can pull/pop and conflux adds, PersonB claims NM BEFORE PersonA confluxes, and PersonA will get the pop key item.
My experiences with this. We popped Baba Yaga and I popped the NM. Procced red !! like you should on those gay stingy key item mobs, and then i ended up dying cause I got silenced and yeahh.
It went yellow and friend killing it with me on monk reclaimed and i homepointed (no RR) and came back, we killed it, i still got key item.
Either i got lucky, or the NM must be completely idle for weaknesses to wear/change
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2010-10-28 12:33:45
What Eliane and Blazza say is correct. You could die 109309123 times and it can go unclaimed 1029301923 times but aslong as one person still has hate on it u will get the key item once it dies if you arent dead.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-10-28 12:33:47
Hades.Eliane said: Either i got lucky, or the NM must be completely idle for weaknesses to wear/change
Naw, this is what people think at the moment. I personally speculate that Treasure Hunter probably works exactly like this too.
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-28 12:34:15
Hades.Eliane said: Bahamut.Dasva said: So here is a screenshot of bio II triggering which was not on the mindi list. And yes I know it looks like it was the thunder III but thats just cause of how fast I casted inbetween. It was my 3rd thunder III and on dark day so no way it could've been that.
Bio always has been able to trigger !!, thats not really new Yeah but someone here originally said no lol
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-11-13 11:03:15
Is there an updated list of triggers anywhere? I'm really skeptical on a few things, namely the times that the blue triggers change, and a couple of blu spells for grellow (seedspray especially...).
My LS has really been struggling with procs on a few NMs this weekend, despite cycling through every spell and ws on the list several times. Some NMs we've simply not been able to proc at all.
I'm sure in part it's a case of people being dumb and landing their spells while the mob is casting or tp'ing, but with so many spells, it's impossible to check all of them :/
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-11-13 12:02:35
Can 100% confirm the times for blue, as well as confirm Seedspray.
By Serj 2010-11-13 12:19:45
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Can 100% confirm the times for blue, as well as confirm Seedspray.
I can't 100% confirm blue because I haven't had a big enough sample size. But, if I've been able to blue !!, it's always been during blunt time (I have 14/15 blunt triggers). Haven't seen a blue !! outside of blunt time, either.
So, I support Night's notion!
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-11-13 12:23:33
MNK during blunt time is *** awesome, having all triggers but Hexa is <3
But yeah, we've claimed plenty of ***at 22 and had a couple pops at just before 6 with blue proc from blunt.
By Serj 2010-11-13 12:25:22
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: MNK during blunt time is *** awesome, having all triggers but Hexa is <3
But yeah, we've claimed plenty of ***at 22 and had a couple pops at just before 6 with blue proc from blunt.
Yea, only once have I been unable to trigger blue out of maybe 20ish blue's I've done. Suspect it was Hexa lol.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-11-13 21:34:09
Damn, dunno what our issue is then, can you also confirm the END time for blunt? I kited Ironclad for an hour yesterday while my two friends continued to HP and change jobs to cycle through every single piercing ws twice and nothing. And yeah, we know not to ws while it's meleeing :/
oh, I claimed just before 6, lost agro, for a good 10-20 seconds (was definitely clear on all hate) and reclaimed just after 6.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-11-13 21:43:43
Odin.Blazza said: Damn, dunno what our issue is then, can you also confirm the END time for blunt? I kited Ironclad for an hour yesterday while my two friends continued to HP and change jobs to cycle through every single piercing ws twice and nothing. And yeah, we know not to ws while it's meleeing :/
oh, I claimed just before 6, lost agro, for a good 10-20 seconds (was definitely clear on all hate) and reclaimed just after 6. There's your problem. Weaknesses are determined on time of claim; if the NM goes completely passive they'll change when you reclaim.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2010-11-14 05:48:54
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Odin.Blazza said: Damn, dunno what our issue is then, can you also confirm the END time for blunt? I kited Ironclad for an hour yesterday while my two friends continued to HP and change jobs to cycle through every single piercing ws twice and nothing. And yeah, we know not to ws while it's meleeing :/
oh, I claimed just before 6, lost agro, for a good 10-20 seconds (was definitely clear on all hate) and reclaimed just after 6. There's your problem. Weaknesses are determined on time of claim; if the NM goes completely passive they'll change when you reclaim. That's my point though, I re-claimed it after 6, which is when piercing supposedly starts.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-11-14 05:50:53
Hmm. When you say lost hate, did it actually stop moving?
I've read through the available information on the wiki and (much of) the 51 pages on BG, and I'm curious as to how random exploiting these weaknesses is in your experience. We know the weaknesses are dynamic, but relationships would definitely help if they exist. Have you had any luck improving efficiency for weakness targeting based on days of the week or other factors?
Red !!
The 13 weapon skills listed on wiki have vastly improved the time we spend in Abyssea trying to get Atmas, Abyssites, and NM key items. Having a warrior and a ninja in the party to farm these isn't so hard to find, so even if this weakness is random, it's quite feasible to achieve provided the mob is manageable by your group.
Yellow !!
The 3 day theory still has a lot of spells to cover, and on more difficult mobs, timing (read canceling) AM1 spells is frustrating as it's hard to know how much TP people will be feeding the mob in the time it takes to cast.
Blue !!
Testing every physical weapon skill has been reduced to testing different damage types according to the time of day, but this still seems a daunting task, albeit less daunting than fighting Bakka 30 times for an af3 accessory, but you may not have the leisure to try so many different weapon skills if you are trying to kill an NM quickly (Smok).
Proposal? Chukwa. He seems a friendly test subject as with two people and his target out of range, he is quite passive for testing purposes. He also doesn't use TP moves or cast when the target is out of range, and damage is greatly resisted when he is inside his shell, so you can test out quite a bit before you make him mad (you don't need to gear up to kill him, but regain and refresh atmas may speed things up).
If you happen to have a lot of time in Abyssea - Tahrongi, or you are just passing through, don't be a stranger, run up to Chukwa and weapon skill him in the face based on your personal belief of weapon skill triggers, then run out of range so a friend can try out their ideas of magic triggers. Triggers don't seem to be monster dependent, so with any luck, data from Chukwa can help us with more difficult monsters. Worst case scenario, we can reinforce or debunk current theories with data collected in a more relaxed manner.
If anybody on Alexander wants to try to build copious amounts of time in Abyssea - Tahrongi and try out weakness triggers on Chukwa under different circumstances (day/time) and try applying them to other Tahrongi NMs, send me a PM or /tell in game!
Cheers
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