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Open Carry of Firearms: Yea or Nay?
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-11-09 17:24:12
Bahamut.Zorander said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: This has to be the most ridiculous thread I've read since Exceliors fat tax. I don't see how in the blue hell anyone can justify making the open carrying of firearms legal. Can you not imagine the carnage, pub fights would end in mass shootings, security would be rendered useless and their lives put at risk whenever they intervened with any arguments, innocent bystanders caught in crossfire between arguing parties, police forces would have to be equipped with full riot gear and bulletproof equipment to deal with even the slightest threat because everyone and anyone can shoot at them!? Seriously. I think many of you are forgetting just how serious a firearm is, they are not toys and in the hands of an inexperienced user can have horrific consequences. Would it have prevented or lessened the tragic events mentioned by the OP, maybe, but alot of those incidents were the result of gross negligence and could have been prevented if certain people had done there jobs properly. People can become very unreasonable when they see red, can you imagine the number of murders that would take place just through drunk rage over little things like ex gf's, looking at someone the wrong way, things that would usually go no further than a bust up ending in murder. Yeh no thanks. It's already legal. Very legal to open carry..I don't know why seeing an average person walking around the street with a pistol on his hip would "scare" anyone. Guns are dangerous..but not more dangerous than Bees, bears, Old people behind the wheel of a car, tired people or overly medicated ppl using any time of machinery. I am way more scared of the ppl that drive on the roads then when I see someone openly carring a gun. Open carry has always been around and will hopefully always be around(for us in the US that is.)..get use to it..guns aren't bad and never have been.
It's difficult for me to take a neutral stance on the issue, as I've only ever been in countries with strict firearm laws and regulations. I guess I'd see it differently if I was used to seeing people with guns. I just find it hard to imagine walking into a newsagents and seeing a que of customers weilding sharpshooters >_>;
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-09 17:24:44
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Bahamut.Zorander said: It's already legal. Very legal to open carry...
Depends entirely on the state. It's legal without restriction in 10 states, mostly legal in 15 others, legal only with a special license in 13, not legal except in extenuating circumstances in 7 or so, and almost completely outlawed in a few more. does few more =5 more
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-09 17:25:31
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Bahamut.Zorander said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: This has to be the most ridiculous thread I've read since Exceliors fat tax. I don't see how in the blue hell anyone can justify making the open carrying of firearms legal. Can you not imagine the carnage, pub fights would end in mass shootings, security would be rendered useless and their lives put at risk whenever they intervened with any arguments, innocent bystanders caught in crossfire between arguing parties, police forces would have to be equipped with full riot gear and bulletproof equipment to deal with even the slightest threat because everyone and anyone can shoot at them!? Seriously. I think many of you are forgetting just how serious a firearm is, they are not toys and in the hands of an inexperienced user can have horrific consequences. Would it have prevented or lessened the tragic events mentioned by the OP, maybe, but alot of those incidents were the result of gross negligence and could have been prevented if certain people had done there jobs properly. People can become very unreasonable when they see red, can you imagine the number of murders that would take place just through drunk rage over little things like ex gf's, looking at someone the wrong way, things that would usually go no further than a bust up ending in murder. Yeh no thanks. It's already legal. Very legal to open carry..I don't know why seeing an average person walking around the street with a pistol on his hip would "scare" anyone. Guns are dangerous..but not more dangerous than Bees, bears, Old people behind the wheel of a car, tired people or overly medicated ppl using any time of machinery. I am way more scared of the ppl that drive on the roads then when I see someone openly carring a gun. Open carry has always been around and will hopefully always be around(for us in the US that is.)..get use to it..guns aren't bad and never have been.
It's difficult for me to take a neutral stance on the issue, as I've only ever been in countries with strict firearm laws and regulations. I guess I'd see it differently if I was used to seeing people with guns. I just find it hard to imagine walking into a newsagents and seeing a que of customers weilding sharpshooters >_>; I don't think they can necessarily tote around rifles :/
handguns maybe
Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-11-09 17:26:17
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Bahamut.Zorander said: It's already legal. Very legal to open carry... Depends entirely on the state. It's legal without restriction in 10 states, mostly legal in 15 others, legal only with a special license in 13, not legal except in extenuating circumstances in 7 or so, and almost completely outlawed in a few more. Yeah sorry I said early..and I guess it doesn't fit for everyone but for my state it is legal to open carry.
Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-11-09 17:31:40
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Bahamut.Zorander said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: This has to be the most ridiculous thread I've read since Exceliors fat tax. I don't see how in the blue hell anyone can justify making the open carrying of firearms legal. Can you not imagine the carnage, pub fights would end in mass shootings, security would be rendered useless and their lives put at risk whenever they intervened with any arguments, innocent bystanders caught in crossfire between arguing parties, police forces would have to be equipped with full riot gear and bulletproof equipment to deal with even the slightest threat because everyone and anyone can shoot at them!? Seriously. I think many of you are forgetting just how serious a firearm is, they are not toys and in the hands of an inexperienced user can have horrific consequences. Would it have prevented or lessened the tragic events mentioned by the OP, maybe, but alot of those incidents were the result of gross negligence and could have been prevented if certain people had done there jobs properly. People can become very unreasonable when they see red, can you imagine the number of murders that would take place just through drunk rage over little things like ex gf's, looking at someone the wrong way, things that would usually go no further than a bust up ending in murder. Yeh no thanks. It's already legal. Very legal to open carry..I don't know why seeing an average person walking around the street with a pistol on his hip would "scare" anyone. Guns are dangerous..but not more dangerous than Bees, bears, Old people behind the wheel of a car, tired people or overly medicated ppl using any time of machinery. I am way more scared of the ppl that drive on the roads then when I see someone openly carring a gun. Open carry has always been around and will hopefully always be around(for us in the US that is.)..get use to it..guns aren't bad and never have been. It's difficult for me to take a neutral stance on the issue, as I've only ever been in countries with strict firearm laws and regulations. I guess I'd see it differently if I was used to seeing people with guns. I just find it hard to imagine walking into a newsagents and seeing a que of customers weilding sharpshooters >_>; I don't think they can necessarily tote around rifles :/ handguns maybe In my state you can openly carry any sort of Firearm as long as you legal own and it is licensed..and it doesn't have a bullet in the chamber. For anyone to open carry and I am sure it depends on the city and state you are in..for where I live I believe without a CCW it is 3 mechanical actions to get bullet from resting place to firing position. Safety counts.
So lets say a shotgun.
1. Safety off.
2. Pump once
3. Pump twice
You are legal to carry that gun..you'd have to have the shell in the 3rd position but yeah you'd be legal. I have been pulled over with a gun in my backseat in plan view without a CCW and I was fine. The officer was tense for a moment but I am within my legal rights.
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-09 17:33:25
Bahamut.Zorander said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Bahamut.Zorander said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: This has to be the most ridiculous thread I've read since Exceliors fat tax. I don't see how in the blue hell anyone can justify making the open carrying of firearms legal. Can you not imagine the carnage, pub fights would end in mass shootings, security would be rendered useless and their lives put at risk whenever they intervened with any arguments, innocent bystanders caught in crossfire between arguing parties, police forces would have to be equipped with full riot gear and bulletproof equipment to deal with even the slightest threat because everyone and anyone can shoot at them!? Seriously. I think many of you are forgetting just how serious a firearm is, they are not toys and in the hands of an inexperienced user can have horrific consequences. Would it have prevented or lessened the tragic events mentioned by the OP, maybe, but alot of those incidents were the result of gross negligence and could have been prevented if certain people had done there jobs properly. People can become very unreasonable when they see red, can you imagine the number of murders that would take place just through drunk rage over little things like ex gf's, looking at someone the wrong way, things that would usually go no further than a bust up ending in murder. Yeh no thanks. It's already legal. Very legal to open carry..I don't know why seeing an average person walking around the street with a pistol on his hip would "scare" anyone. Guns are dangerous..but not more dangerous than Bees, bears, Old people behind the wheel of a car, tired people or overly medicated ppl using any time of machinery. I am way more scared of the ppl that drive on the roads then when I see someone openly carring a gun. Open carry has always been around and will hopefully always be around(for us in the US that is.)..get use to it..guns aren't bad and never have been. It's difficult for me to take a neutral stance on the issue, as I've only ever been in countries with strict firearm laws and regulations. I guess I'd see it differently if I was used to seeing people with guns. I just find it hard to imagine walking into a newsagents and seeing a que of customers weilding sharpshooters >_>; I don't think they can necessarily tote around rifles :/ handguns maybe In my state you can openly carry any sort of Firearm as long as you legal own and it is licensed..and it doesn't have a bullet in the chamber. For anyone to open carry and I am sure it depends on the city and state you are in..for where I live I believe without a CCW it is 3 mechanical actions to get bullet from resting place to firing position. Safety counts.
So lets say a shotgun.
1. Safety off.
2. Pump once
3. Pump twice
You are legal to carry that gun..you'd have to have the shell in the 3rd position but yeah you'd be legal. I have been pulled over with a gun in my backseat in plan view without a CCW and I was fine. The officer was tense for a moment but I am within my legal rights. I'm pretty sure the cop wouldn't treat you the same if you had a sniper rifle sitting in the back though lol.
Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-11-09 17:42:00
what constitutes sniper rifle? Many of the guns I shoot could surely work as sniper rifles..for hells sake my 20/2 has very nice scope on it. As does my 17, 223, 6mm..whats your point?
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-09 17:50:20
Bahamut.Zorander said: what constitutes sniper rifle? Many of the guns I shoot could surely work as sniper rifles..for hells sake my 20/2 has very nice scope on it. As does my 17, 223, 6mm..whats your point? I think it deals with the level of precision in regards to distance and the overall power of the round fired :/
M40 was based on Remington 700 with modifications :/
so technically you are correct in a word.
but still I'm pretty sure that they'd be able to tell the difference with todays standard :/
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-09 18:30:35
Rifle is a rifle in my opinion. shouldn't matter if you have a Barret's .50 BMG or a .22
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-09 18:36:14
Asura.Emoneaone said: Rifle is a rifle in my opinion. shouldn't matter if you have a Barret's .50 BMG or a .22
sadly shouldn't matter and doesn't matter aren't the same thing though :/
but yup opinions :D
larger guns they'd be paranoid about ya regardless unless you were in hunter garb though :/
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By Shiva.Phioness 2010-11-09 18:50:03
As a Marine I don't think anyone outside the Military and Police should have a gun. Hunting's great, but unless your doing it by bow, your just another person making an easy kill on an animal, and I wouldn't call that sport. Now put a bunch gun nuts in the wilds and give them all the assault rifles and hand guns meant to kill humans, now thats sport.
Right to bear arms should be only to those who "Earn the Right". In order to earn that right I think you should have to serve your country through military or law enforcement.
Truth is I don't think people are responsible enough to carry guns conceeled or not. Sad truth is that people cling to that outdated constitutional right to bear arms. One of the reasons behind this right was so people could stand up to the government if things turned sour. Truth of it is that if the government wants to crush an uprising (this means some of you tea-party nuts), they are going to do so with superior firepower, training, and tactics.
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Carbuncle.Brewtus
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By Carbuncle.Brewtus 2010-11-09 18:50:12
Bahamut.Zorander said: Phoenix.Excelior said: I think if everyone had a gun it would make the world safer in theory. However, it would require a lot of education and very very strict laws surrounding the use. Most experts think that the next wave of terrorism will come in the form of public shootings. If everyone in the public has a gun the terrorist is going to die very quickly. However, the public needs to be sure of when it is acceptable to use a gun and when it is not. Police have different tiers of force they need to use, and it is not acceptable to bring a gun to a fist fight. I believe that the average American would be capable of these resonsibilities but I also acknowledge there will be many who are not. Sadly, we see retards killing people with inproper use of their vehicle every day. These would probably be the smartest rules of usage:
1. Guns must be carried in plain sight.
2. Guns must be surrendered at the request of an officer or they will have the authority to shoot you.
3. You may not draw your gun without justification and testimony to support that justification. If you violate this then it's life in prison.
4. If you have a record of violence you may not own a gun.
5. If you have a criminal record at all you may not own a gun.
6. Keep the 21 for hand gun permits law. Anyone else have thoughts? That's how it is now..
If you get pulled over and have a CCW you have to disclose that.
You can't pull your gun on anyone expect for the defense of yourself or family.
Back ground check.
Back ground check again.
Can't buy a handgun til your 21 anyway. (I think I can't remember.)
I'm not arguing your point about disclosing your CCW, but if you get pulled over and the first words out of your mouth to the officer at your window are "Hi there officer, I have a concealed firearm", you're just asking for trouble because that puts the officer on a heightened alert.
Unless you're specifically asked if you have any concealed weapons, they don't want to know that you do. They didn't pull you over because they thought you might have a CCW, they pulled you over because you were speeding, ran a red light, mowed down a nun at a crosswalk, etc...
@ Phoenix...
1. NO.
2. HELL NO.
3. What Zor said. Life in prison?? HA. ...NO.
4 and 5. kinda tied together. In MA, restraining orders and any felony record will result in loss of firearms and or licenses to posess said firearms.
6. 21 is the age for pistols, 18 for long guns iirc.
@ Phioness...
are you really serious? So because you defended your country, that makes you more American than anyone else with more rights than the average citizen?? Get real. ...and before you decide to melt down, I am ex-law enforcement.
CCW is one hell of a right...which I exercise regularly =D
"Guns don't kill people. Large holes in vital organs kill people."
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-09 18:54:43
Shiva.Phioness said: As a Marine I don't think anyone outside the Military and Police should have a gun. Hunting's great, but unless your doing it by bow, your just another person making an easy kill on an animal, and I wouldn't call that sport. Now put a bunch gun nuts in the wilds and give them all the assault rifles and hand guns meant to kill humans, now thats sport.
Right to bear arms should be only to those who "Earn the Right". In order to earn that right I think you should have to serve your country through military or law enforcement.
Truth is I don't think people are responsible enough to carry guns conceeled or not. Sad truth is that people cling to that outdated constitutional right to bear arms. One of the reasons behind this right was so people could stand up to the government if things turned sour. Truth of it is that if the government wants to crush an uprising (this means some of you tea-party nuts), they are going to do so with superior firepower, training, and tactics. luckily we dont live in the United States of Phioness then I guess XD
How did our military get formed?
from a militia.
how did the militia get formed?
from a group of concerned citizens with firearms and little to no training.
they eventually got training of course :/
but that's beside the point.
that argument doesn't really hold for much :/
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-11-09 18:56:04
Shiva.Phioness said:
Right to bear arms should be only to those who "Earn the Right". In order to earn that right I think you should have to serve your country through military or law enforcement.
So.. To earn the right to carry a gun my choices are to become one of the enforcers of a lot of laws I don't agree with or to join the military and very likely end up fighting a war I don't agree with..
Sounds more like I'm agreeing to sell out and betray my own principles for the sake of being able to protect myself from a gun toting criminal..
Also, you going through military training doesn't make you any more responsible when it comes to gun saftey then a properly trained civilian.. Accidents do happen with guns, but they aren't limited to civilians, now are they? I'd agree that a lot of people probably aren't responsible enough, but that goes both ways, because a good portion of those irresponsible people are now carrying a government issued firearm.
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-09 19:09:46
Shiva.Phioness said:
Truth of it is that if the government wants to crush an uprising (this means some of you tea-party nuts), they are going to do so with superior firepower, training, and tactics.
Marine, you forget that many of your fellow military members are quite conservative folks, like this retired MSgt. If the government wants to crush an uprising there are good odds that many vets and retirees are going to be on the other side. Might also mutiny. All depends on the reason for the uprising, of course. And I think your statement about superior firepower argues for the populace to be able to own automatic weapons. Remember the quote, "When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
Thomas Jefferson
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Carbuncle.Brewtus
サーバ: Carbuncle
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By Carbuncle.Brewtus 2010-11-09 19:11:43
getting back to Phioness here...
I was literally loling after re-reading your post. "Earn the right". You served your country and did what had to be done. For that I hold the utmost respect for you and everyone else in our Armed Forces that help to secure our freedom. But this ain't the military. Here, you're no better than anyone. Everything the government programmed into you as a soldier needs to be tuned down a bit when in the real world.
An example, if I may. With all the police brutality that you see in the USA now, where do you think a large majority of those officers in question came from? (I'll give you a moment to look at the Marines flag that you most likely have hanging in or around your house somewhere.) Yep, right there. the United States Marine Corps. I know 4 personally who have been fired for excessive force. All ex-Marines. Have heard about many others who were allllllll ex-Marines.
That's all. I felt that your pompous comment about "earning the right" needed to be re-addressed.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-11-09 19:19:20
Kujata.Akeda
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By Kujata.Akeda 2010-11-09 19:19:25
Carbuncle.Brewtus said: getting back to Phioness here...
I was literally loling after re-reading your post. "Earn the right". You served your country and did what had to be done. For that I hold the utmost respect for you and everyone else in our Armed Forces that help to secure our freedom. But this ain't the military. Here, you're no better than anyone. Everything the government programmed into you as a soldier needs to be tuned down a bit when in the real world.
An example, if I may. With all the police brutality that you see in the USA now, where do you think a large majority of those officers in question came from? (I'll give you a moment to look at the Marines flag that you most likely have hanging in or around your house somewhere.) Yep, right there. the United States Marine Corps. I know 4 personally who have been fired for excessive force. All ex-Marines. Have heard about many others who were allllllll ex-Marines.
That's all. I felt that your pompous comment about "earning the right" needed to be re-addressed.
There's no such thing as an ex-Marine.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-09 19:32:34
Shiva.Phioness said: As a Marine I don't think anyone outside the Military and Police should have a gun. Hunting's great, but unless your doing it by bow, your just another person making an easy kill on an animal, and I wouldn't call that sport. Now put a bunch gun nuts in the wilds and give them all the assault rifles and hand guns meant to kill humans, now thats sport.
Right to bear arms should be only to those who "Earn the Right". In order to earn that right I think you should have to serve your country through military or law enforcement.
Truth is I don't think people are responsible enough to carry guns conceeled or not. Sad truth is that people cling to that outdated constitutional right to bear arms. One of the reasons behind this right was so people could stand up to the government if things turned sour. Truth of it is that if the government wants to crush an uprising (this means some of you tea-party nuts), they are going to do so with superior firepower, training, and tactics.
while I agree the tea party people are nuts, the last time the government went against it's people wasn't as easy as they thought, and it wouldn't be as easy this time either.
Also no the right to bear arms id definitely not outdated and quite frankly I hope your dumb *** gets shot for thinking such a thing. Rights are just that rights, not perks that are earned, it's sad that a member of the military doesn't know this, you should go to your superior officer and tell him you need retrained.
Also hunting in general is outdated and unnecessary.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-09 19:37:35
Asura.Emoneaone said: Shiva.Phioness said:
Truth of it is that if the government wants to crush an uprising (this means some of you tea-party nuts), they are going to do so with superior firepower, training, and tactics.
Marine, you forget that many of your fellow military members are quite conservative folks, like this retired MSgt. If the government wants to crush an uprising there are good odds that many vets and retirees are going to be on the other side. Might also mutiny. All depends on the reason for the uprising, of course. And I think your statement about superior firepower argues for the populace to be able to own automatic weapons. Remember the quote, "When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
Thomas Jefferson
I'll agree entirely with this statement, there's no reason I shouldn't be allowed to purchase a rocket launcher or a tank.
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-09 19:49:19
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Emoneaone said: Shiva.Phioness said:
Truth of it is that if the government wants to crush an uprising (this means some of you tea-party nuts), they are going to do so with superior firepower, training, and tactics.
Marine, you forget that many of your fellow military members are quite conservative folks, like this retired MSgt. If the government wants to crush an uprising there are good odds that many vets and retirees are going to be on the other side. Might also mutiny. All depends on the reason for the uprising, of course. And I think your statement about superior firepower argues for the populace to be able to own automatic weapons. Remember the quote, "When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
Thomas Jefferson
I'll agree entirely with this statement, there's no reason I shouldn't be allowed to purchase a rocket launcher or a tank. LMAO! A touch of sarcasm, Jet? I'll go for personal weapons. Tanks, artillery, fighters...might draw the line there.
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-11-09 19:51:17
*** it, let's just interpret the whole arms thing this way:
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-11-09 19:51:37
Way ahead of you
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-09 19:54:03
Asura.Emoneaone said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Asura.Emoneaone said: Shiva.Phioness said:
Truth of it is that if the government wants to crush an uprising (this means some of you tea-party nuts), they are going to do so with superior firepower, training, and tactics.
Marine, you forget that many of your fellow military members are quite conservative folks, like this retired MSgt. If the government wants to crush an uprising there are good odds that many vets and retirees are going to be on the other side. Might also mutiny. All depends on the reason for the uprising, of course. And I think your statement about superior firepower argues for the populace to be able to own automatic weapons. Remember the quote, "When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
Thomas Jefferson
I'll agree entirely with this statement, there's no reason I shouldn't be allowed to purchase a rocket launcher or a tank. LMAO! A touch of sarcasm, Jet? I'll go for personal weapons. Tanks, artillery, fighters...might draw the line there. na, i want a tank and a rocket launcher, then again I want my own property to use it own where nobody will get hurt, so there's a difference.
By Serj 2010-11-09 20:09:54
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By Asura.Emoneaone 2010-11-09 20:27:19
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-09 20:43:00
no this is nice
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By Asura.Calatilla 2010-11-09 20:51:13
So does this right to carry guns extend to Sniper Rifles? Always wanted one of those
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-09 20:53:48
Asura.Calatilla said: So does this right to carry guns extend to Sniper Rifles? Always wanted one of those here, depending on the area, yeah. (about 67% sure)
Do you think that open carry of firearms would be a good or bad thing?
Would armed citizens have been able to reduce the death toll at Columbine? The Killeen Texas Luby's cafeteria massacre? The Virginia Tech shooting? Would armed citizens make crooks think twice about mugging someone?
Would a plethora of firearms result in more road rage shootings? Impulse shootings when tempers flair? Innocent bystanders caught in crossfires? "Friendly Fire" incidents as one armed citizen mistakes the guy shooting the bad guy FOR the bad guy?
Not putting out my thoughts, just wanted to see what y'all would think on about a breakroom discussion we had at work today.
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