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White House gives in on Bush-Era Tax Cuts
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-12 00:32:58
Leviathan.Chaosx said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Honestly this is the perfect time for Americans to be pursuing higher education particular in nursing, engineering, and computer security. Most of the people who can't get a job should just take out student loans and start investing in some education. We'll be better off if we have people who are educated to take positions as we develop them. Oh yeah cause they can afford it.
Most Americans who arent in poverty can afford college. There are a shitload of loans and grants designed to send people to school. It just takes ambition and hard work for some.
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-11-12 00:34:41
Phoenix.Excelior said: Honestly this is the perfect time for Americans to be pursuing higher education particular in nursing, engineering, and computer security. Most of the people who can't get a job should just take out student loans and start investing in some education. We'll be better off if we have people who are educated to take positions as we develop them. I agree with this. Guess what, we got student loan reform during Obama's watch, so now more money can find it's way to ambitious students.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-11-12 00:35:32
Phoenix.Excelior said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Honestly this is the perfect time for Americans to be pursuing higher education particular in nursing, engineering, and computer security. Most of the people who can't get a job should just take out student loans and start investing in some education. We'll be better off if we have people who are educated to take positions as we develop them. Oh yeah cause they can afford it.
Most Americans who arent in poverty can afford college. There are a shitload of loans and grants designed to send people to school. It just takes ambition and hard work for some. What about people who have spent, let's say $80,000 to obtain a degree and are now working mediocre jobs just to pay off student loans?
You're telling them, hey go back to school and get this degree. LOL! LOL I say.
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-11-12 00:37:59
/shrug I found work in the hospital field without any prior training, good health care and they pay me to go to school for them. This was just in the past few months.
It's not impossible, but it's not easy either.
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-12 00:39:14
Leviathan.Chaosx said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Honestly this is the perfect time for Americans to be pursuing higher education particular in nursing, engineering, and computer security. Most of the people who can't get a job should just take out student loans and start investing in some education. We'll be better off if we have people who are educated to take positions as we develop them. Oh yeah cause they can afford it. Most Americans who arent in poverty can afford college. There are a shitload of loans and grants designed to send people to school. It just takes ambition and hard work for some. What about people who have spent, let's say $80,000 to obtain a degree and are now working mediocre jobs just to pay off student loans? You're telling them, hey go back to school and get this degree. LOL! LOL I say.
I didn't say to go back to school to get a degree if you have one. If you don't have one this is a good opportunity. Also most student loans don't cost $80,000 unless you're going to law school or an Ivy League college.
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-11-12 00:46:11
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
I come back to find Excelior, this won't end well.....
If I was 40+ I probably would not go back to school because I would be paying off loans forever.
My father recently went back to school. He now makes 6 figures after 2 years of school. If you have a plan and a market in mind going back to school right now is a great idea.
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-11-12 00:56:40
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By Ramuh.Thunderz 2010-11-12 00:57:45
Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: /rolls eyes /barrel rolls its politics cant take stuff seriously O.O lol true that. Since you here what do you think of devaluing the U.S. Dollar? Basically like the strategy of China. If I remember correctly? a devaluated $ will in return encourage other country's to invest in the US market but on the flip side this will increase cost to anything the country has to import. The US exports will boom It is somewhat of a exchange of role... I would need some coffee to think about this one LOL Nice. Was thinking the Yuan to begin with. Im just trying to determine this. This would be beneficial for people buying from the US. But in the US perspective having a devaluated dollar... will this impact salary's (or you will just be sitting on way more bills then usual?) The only affected area of the market (directly) would be any type of company's that would import diverse materials from other country's An example: A upholstery that imports Canadian lumber will see his cost of doing business go up drastically? Im just trying to determine in detail how the US purchase (buying) power would be altered
Wut? If a dollar goes down it hurts America all over. It won't increase our exports capital it will reduce it. Furthermore the countries who actually buy our bonds and invest within the american currency system will lose a lot of money as well. A falling dollar hurts every economy. The reason the chinese currency is deflated is because they want to encourage businesses to invest in them while keep the quality of life for their citizens extremely low. The momment anyone in america says we should be more like china I'm extremely disturbed. Personally, I would like for chinese currency to increase so it will nationalize more of our economy.
it is never a good idea to look at economy as a whole but to always break it down to a specific situation/circumstance
I was looking at it from a export/import basis and used the upholstery as a example of sort
(I did toss the salary part but that was a question I am not certain of)
So looking at it from the point of view of importing and exporting.
Importing: The cost of doing business for a company that imports diverse material from abroad would go up since its buying power is reduced because of the lower $
Exporting: Company's / Investors from abroad would be pleased to see their buying power increased with a lower US $ and would invest in the market. Purchase more then usual from the American market, etc.
This is keeping in mind that trading laws don't change and that this is a OPEN/Free market
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-12 01:02:02
Ramuh.Thunderz said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: /rolls eyes /barrel rolls its politics cant take stuff seriously O.O lol true that. Since you here what do you think of devaluing the U.S. Dollar? Basically like the strategy of China. If I remember correctly? a devaluated $ will in return encourage other country's to invest in the US market but on the flip side this will increase cost to anything the country has to import. The US exports will boom It is somewhat of a exchange of role... I would need some coffee to think about this one LOL Nice. Was thinking the Yuan to begin with. Im just trying to determine this. This would be beneficial for people buying from the US. But in the US perspective having a devaluated dollar... will this impact salary's (or you will just be sitting on way more bills then usual?) The only affected area of the market (directly) would be any type of company's that would import diverse materials from other country's An example: A upholstery that imports Canadian lumber will see his cost of doing business go up drastically? Im just trying to determine in detail how the US purchase (buying) power would be altered Wut? If a dollar goes down it hurts America all over. It won't increase our exports capital it will reduce it. Furthermore the countries who actually buy our bonds and invest within the american currency system will lose a lot of money as well. A falling dollar hurts every economy. The reason the chinese currency is deflated is because they want to encourage businesses to invest in them while keep the quality of life for their citizens extremely low. The momment anyone in america says we should be more like china I'm extremely disturbed. Personally, I would like for chinese currency to increase so it will nationalize more of our economy. it is never a good idea to look at economy as a whole but to always break it down to a specific situation/circumstance I was looking at it from a export/import basis and used the upholstery as a example of sort (I did toss the salary part but that was a question I am not certain of) So looking at it from the point of view of importing and exporting. Importing: The cost of doing business for a company that imports diverse material from abroad would go up since its buying power is reduced because of the lower $ Exporting: Company's / Investors from abroad would be pleased to see their buying power increased with a lower US $ and would invest in the market. Purchase more then usual from the American market, etc. This is keeping in mind that trading laws don't change and that this is a OPEN/Free market
Well trading laws can't change without approval of the WTO. I think you're also missing the fact that if people are buying more and we're being paid less then we're not making that much more money. Unfortunately just looking at one aspect of the economy and not how it affects it as a whole is how you end up with a fked up system.
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By Ramuh.Thunderz 2010-11-12 01:02:20
bleh 4hrs before I need to wake up for work.
Gnite
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By Ramuh.Thunderz 2010-11-12 01:06:18
Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: /rolls eyes /barrel rolls its politics cant take stuff seriously O.O lol true that. Since you here what do you think of devaluing the U.S. Dollar? Basically like the strategy of China. If I remember correctly? a devaluated $ will in return encourage other country's to invest in the US market but on the flip side this will increase cost to anything the country has to import. The US exports will boom It is somewhat of a exchange of role... I would need some coffee to think about this one LOL Nice. Was thinking the Yuan to begin with. Im just trying to determine this. This would be beneficial for people buying from the US. But in the US perspective having a devaluated dollar... will this impact salary's (or you will just be sitting on way more bills then usual?) The only affected area of the market (directly) would be any type of company's that would import diverse materials from other country's An example: A upholstery that imports Canadian lumber will see his cost of doing business go up drastically? Im just trying to determine in detail how the US purchase (buying) power would be altered Wut? If a dollar goes down it hurts America all over. It won't increase our exports capital it will reduce it. Furthermore the countries who actually buy our bonds and invest within the american currency system will lose a lot of money as well. A falling dollar hurts every economy. The reason the chinese currency is deflated is because they want to encourage businesses to invest in them while keep the quality of life for their citizens extremely low. The momment anyone in america says we should be more like china I'm extremely disturbed. Personally, I would like for chinese currency to increase so it will nationalize more of our economy. it is never a good idea to look at economy as a whole but to always break it down to a specific situation/circumstance I was looking at it from a export/import basis and used the upholstery as a example of sort (I did toss the salary part but that was a question I am not certain of) So looking at it from the point of view of importing and exporting. Importing: The cost of doing business for a company that imports diverse material from abroad would go up since its buying power is reduced because of the lower $ Exporting: Company's / Investors from abroad would be pleased to see their buying power increased with a lower US $ and would invest in the market. Purchase more then usual from the American market, etc. This is keeping in mind that trading laws don't change and that this is a OPEN/Free market
Well trading laws can't change without approval of the WTO. I think you're also missing the fact that if people are buying more and we're being paid less then we're not making that much more money. Unfortunately just looking at one aspect of the economy and not how it affects it as a whole is how you end up with a fked up system.
When I mean people are buying more IM talking about "Other country's"
NOT US citizens. Example a Canadian goes into the US with 1.000$ CAD
But with the devaluated US$ when he does the conversion it turns into 10.000 USD and he would purchase american merchandise
This is where the US would benefit from a reduced dollar (outside investment)
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-11-12 01:08:37
Yeah me too, GN.
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-12 01:09:27
Ramuh.Thunderz said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Thunderz said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: /rolls eyes /barrel rolls its politics cant take stuff seriously O.O lol true that. Since you here what do you think of devaluing the U.S. Dollar? Basically like the strategy of China. If I remember correctly? a devaluated $ will in return encourage other country's to invest in the US market but on the flip side this will increase cost to anything the country has to import. The US exports will boom It is somewhat of a exchange of role... I would need some coffee to think about this one LOL Nice. Was thinking the Yuan to begin with. Im just trying to determine this. This would be beneficial for people buying from the US. But in the US perspective having a devaluated dollar... will this impact salary's (or you will just be sitting on way more bills then usual?) The only affected area of the market (directly) would be any type of company's that would import diverse materials from other country's An example: A upholstery that imports Canadian lumber will see his cost of doing business go up drastically? Im just trying to determine in detail how the US purchase (buying) power would be altered Wut? If a dollar goes down it hurts America all over. It won't increase our exports capital it will reduce it. Furthermore the countries who actually buy our bonds and invest within the american currency system will lose a lot of money as well. A falling dollar hurts every economy. The reason the chinese currency is deflated is because they want to encourage businesses to invest in them while keep the quality of life for their citizens extremely low. The momment anyone in america says we should be more like china I'm extremely disturbed. Personally, I would like for chinese currency to increase so it will nationalize more of our economy. it is never a good idea to look at economy as a whole but to always break it down to a specific situation/circumstance I was looking at it from a export/import basis and used the upholstery as a example of sort (I did toss the salary part but that was a question I am not certain of) So looking at it from the point of view of importing and exporting. Importing: The cost of doing business for a company that imports diverse material from abroad would go up since its buying power is reduced because of the lower $ Exporting: Company's / Investors from abroad would be pleased to see their buying power increased with a lower US $ and would invest in the market. Purchase more then usual from the American market, etc. This is keeping in mind that trading laws don't change and that this is a OPEN/Free market Well trading laws can't change without approval of the WTO. I think you're also missing the fact that if people are buying more and we're being paid less then we're not making that much more money. Unfortunately just looking at one aspect of the economy and not how it affects it as a whole is how you end up with a fked up system. When I mean people are buying more IM talking about "Other country's" NOT US citizens. Example a Canadian goes into the US with 1.000$ CAD But with the devaluated US$ when he does the conversion it turns into 10.000 USD and he would purchase american merchandise This is where the US would benefit from a reduced dollar (outside investment)
Ah I see. I don't think we've ever used that strategy lol. Can't really comment.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-12 01:41:04
Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: I just don't understand why the wealthy thinks it has to be fair.
If the poor had the money to afford increased taxes on the in line with the wealthy do you think it's fair that the poor have to scrape along to make a living?
Or do you think the people that have immense wealth.
This shouldn't be a game of what's fair or not.
It should be a game of what will fix the economy?
pushing our majority further into debt or taxing billionaires a bit more to decrease overall debt?
Do you think that decreasing the overall debt won't encourage profit for your businesses and the way you make a living?
Will a tax increase lower your quality of life?
Or are you just being selfish?
HAHAHAHAHA this cracks me up
1) It assumes that if we give them more of our money they will spend it to reduce the deficit, instead of some other big government program.
2) It makes the ridiculous claim that my keeping some of my OWN money (that I earned by myself btw, no one earned it for me), is somehow selfish.
3) How about before I give them anymore money they promise to stop spending it on dumb wasteful things.
Why don't you tell me why you think you are entitled to the money I earn? So you went out and earned every dollar by your self?
what a joke.
You certainly didn't earn it for me... you can't possibly be serious.
I'm pretty sure systems in place in this great country facilitated your ability to make the money you made.
So that means you got help. :D
You say if you give this money to the government they'll spend it on some other random ***?
In that case you would be fine because if this country is going to break I'd imagine helping the government is going to be a hell of a lot better than letting the ship sink :/
Oh well.
When the economy crashes you'd lose more than the poor either way so it's your loss.
These loss of jobs are your fault specifically.(this is me joking in a serious manner)
I might not know as much as you "claim to know" about political posturing but the wealthy keeping the money they made on the backs of the poor obviously isn't being redistributed properly or we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now.
I am going to address this last line in bold each time you try to make an argument about it if you like?
Or which other one would you like me to go back to?
and why do you think I am getting your money?
are you stupid?
like the government taxing YOU gives me money.
your wealth was facilitated and developed within the US government.
they allowed you to get as wealthy as you possibly can be.
if you want to throw them under the bus because you are busy questioning their motives that's all on you.
you are the reason our economy is failing.
as well as the fact that the wealthy are...lol wat the government themselves!
crazy!
Do you have a Freddy and Fanny backed mortgage? Then you specifically getting my money...
Do you take public transportation? Then you specifically are getting my money...
Do you eat farm produce, drive an automobile, smoke tobacco, read anti tobacco advertising, visit national parks, use electricity, drink water, etc etc etc?
If you use, interact with any kind of industry that receives government subsidies? Then you specifically are getting my money...
are you stupid???
Here's an idea, I don't want to spend your money for you, especially on some of the ridiculous things that its being spent on. Instead, I want YOU to spend it on what you want to spend it on.
then don't live in society you narrow minded imbecile, go live by yourself on an island, be self sustained, and be willing to protect yourself from those that come to harm you yourself, and don't ask for any help, otherwise stop bitching.
Phoenix.Excelior
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Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-12 02:13:22
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: I just don't understand why the wealthy thinks it has to be fair. If the poor had the money to afford increased taxes on the in line with the wealthy do you think it's fair that the poor have to scrape along to make a living? Or do you think the people that have immense wealth. This shouldn't be a game of what's fair or not. It should be a game of what will fix the economy? pushing our majority further into debt or taxing billionaires a bit more to decrease overall debt? Do you think that decreasing the overall debt won't encourage profit for your businesses and the way you make a living? Will a tax increase lower your quality of life? Or are you just being selfish? HAHAHAHAHA this cracks me up 1) It assumes that if we give them more of our money they will spend it to reduce the deficit, instead of some other big government program. 2) It makes the ridiculous claim that my keeping some of my OWN money (that I earned by myself btw, no one earned it for me), is somehow selfish. 3) How about before I give them anymore money they promise to stop spending it on dumb wasteful things. Why don't you tell me why you think you are entitled to the money I earn? So you went out and earned every dollar by your self? what a joke. You certainly didn't earn it for me... you can't possibly be serious. I'm pretty sure systems in place in this great country facilitated your ability to make the money you made. So that means you got help. :D You say if you give this money to the government they'll spend it on some other random ***? In that case you would be fine because if this country is going to break I'd imagine helping the government is going to be a hell of a lot better than letting the ship sink :/ Oh well. When the economy crashes you'd lose more than the poor either way so it's your loss. These loss of jobs are your fault specifically.(this is me joking in a serious manner) I might not know as much as you "claim to know" about political posturing but the wealthy keeping the money they made on the backs of the poor obviously isn't being redistributed properly or we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. I am going to address this last line in bold each time you try to make an argument about it if you like? Or which other one would you like me to go back to? and why do you think I am getting your money? are you stupid? like the government taxing YOU gives me money. your wealth was facilitated and developed within the US government. they allowed you to get as wealthy as you possibly can be. if you want to throw them under the bus because you are busy questioning their motives that's all on you. you are the reason our economy is failing. as well as the fact that the wealthy are...lol wat the government themselves! crazy! Do you have a Freddy and Fanny backed mortgage? Then you specifically getting my money... Do you take public transportation? Then you specifically are getting my money... Do you eat farm produce, drive an automobile, smoke tobacco, read anti tobacco advertising, visit national parks, use electricity, drink water, etc etc etc? If you use, interact with any kind of industry that receives government subsidies? Then you specifically are getting my money... are you stupid??? Here's an idea, I don't want to spend your money for you, especially on some of the ridiculous things that its being spent on. Instead, I want YOU to spend it on what you want to spend it on. then don't live in society you narrow minded imbecile, go live by yourself on an island, be self sustained, and be willing to protect yourself from those that come to harm you yourself, and don't ask for any help, otherwise stop bitching.
Let me get this straight. She is narrowminded by proposing more freedom for people to have choice? I think that's litterally the opposite of being narrowminded.
[+]
Bahamut.Jetackuu
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-12 02:50:17
Phoenix.Excelior said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: I just don't understand why the wealthy thinks it has to be fair. If the poor had the money to afford increased taxes on the in line with the wealthy do you think it's fair that the poor have to scrape along to make a living? Or do you think the people that have immense wealth. This shouldn't be a game of what's fair or not. It should be a game of what will fix the economy? pushing our majority further into debt or taxing billionaires a bit more to decrease overall debt? Do you think that decreasing the overall debt won't encourage profit for your businesses and the way you make a living? Will a tax increase lower your quality of life? Or are you just being selfish? HAHAHAHAHA this cracks me up 1) It assumes that if we give them more of our money they will spend it to reduce the deficit, instead of some other big government program. 2) It makes the ridiculous claim that my keeping some of my OWN money (that I earned by myself btw, no one earned it for me), is somehow selfish. 3) How about before I give them anymore money they promise to stop spending it on dumb wasteful things. Why don't you tell me why you think you are entitled to the money I earn? So you went out and earned every dollar by your self? what a joke. You certainly didn't earn it for me... you can't possibly be serious. I'm pretty sure systems in place in this great country facilitated your ability to make the money you made. So that means you got help. :D You say if you give this money to the government they'll spend it on some other random ***? In that case you would be fine because if this country is going to break I'd imagine helping the government is going to be a hell of a lot better than letting the ship sink :/ Oh well. When the economy crashes you'd lose more than the poor either way so it's your loss. These loss of jobs are your fault specifically.(this is me joking in a serious manner) I might not know as much as you "claim to know" about political posturing but the wealthy keeping the money they made on the backs of the poor obviously isn't being redistributed properly or we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. I am going to address this last line in bold each time you try to make an argument about it if you like? Or which other one would you like me to go back to? and why do you think I am getting your money? are you stupid? like the government taxing YOU gives me money. your wealth was facilitated and developed within the US government. they allowed you to get as wealthy as you possibly can be. if you want to throw them under the bus because you are busy questioning their motives that's all on you. you are the reason our economy is failing. as well as the fact that the wealthy are...lol wat the government themselves! crazy! Do you have a Freddy and Fanny backed mortgage? Then you specifically getting my money... Do you take public transportation? Then you specifically are getting my money... Do you eat farm produce, drive an automobile, smoke tobacco, read anti tobacco advertising, visit national parks, use electricity, drink water, etc etc etc? If you use, interact with any kind of industry that receives government subsidies? Then you specifically are getting my money... are you stupid??? Here's an idea, I don't want to spend your money for you, especially on some of the ridiculous things that its being spent on. Instead, I want YOU to spend it on what you want to spend it on. then don't live in society you narrow minded imbecile, go live by yourself on an island, be self sustained, and be willing to protect yourself from those that come to harm you yourself, and don't ask for any help, otherwise stop bitching.
Let me get this straight. She is narrowminded by proposing more freedom for people to have choice? I think that's litterally the opposite of being narrowminded. no what she is proposing is anarchy or somehow a non funded government, sorry but taxes are what you pay for society, you either live with it and pay them, or don't and don't. The amount of tax revenue from the average joe is next to nothing, so people need to stop bitching and suck it up.
Caitsith.Mahayaya
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Posts: 3341
By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-11-12 07:21:03
Asura.Catastrophe said: Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Nah, the corruption has always been in the hands of banks and the government. Corporations provide a service, why would I be upset with them? They create jobs, buyable products(that I can choose to buy if I want), and they certainly don't cost me a dime(other than the ones that were bailed out for God knows what reason). The government on the other hand costs me a lot. As someone mentioned in the other thread, every citizen has about a $40,000 debt placed on their head at birth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Opposition_to_the_National_Bank Andrew Jackson was one of my favorite presidents for the work he did in trying to make American citizens indebted to no one. <_< September, 2008 says hi. Corporate boards aren't subject to ethical responsibility in service. They are there to make the company money. That's it. That is all they are responsible for. This isn't the 1950's anymore. You rarely if at all get pensions, you can't even hold a household under one income. Your retirement is privatized (and subsequently raped later). No one has asked themselves why this is? I don't see how anyone can support an entity of a company that nets growth in a quarter and lays off 10,000 workers. There's just in this? There are two kinds of customers, in accordance to a workforce. So maybe your products are "of quality", but its more than likely the person that made it got shitty benefits.
I'm not saying the system is perfect, it certainly isn't. And for when it isn't perfect, the government should step in and make regulations to try and make it that way. Regulations to provide industry to American workers and attempt to secure jobs. Regulating minimum wage and forcing companies to buy from domestic corporations if they exist.
Every time you go to Walmart(and various others), you're sending some of your money to China, little back into the American workers(only the service end, since most manufacturing is done through China). Is the corporation to blame for you choosing to buy your product from there? No, people are to blame. They wanted lower costing products and they got it. On one hand, it's economic freedom to be able to make products in China and sell them to consumers. On the other hand, it doesn't invest back into the American system. I don't think it'd be a bad idea for America to exhibit some form of economic isolationism. Have the government make regulations for this, because we all know people are too stupid to just simply stop buying products made from China.
Corporations work as long as there are regulations. Government works as long as it doesn't overstep its bounds and try to control or influence more than it should. Seeing billions of dollars spent on commercials that try to teach kids that weed is bad? Is that necessary? Government should be small, corporations should be primarily domestic, freedom and jobs for everyone.
Phoenix.Excelior
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Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-12 08:56:05
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: I just don't understand why the wealthy thinks it has to be fair. If the poor had the money to afford increased taxes on the in line with the wealthy do you think it's fair that the poor have to scrape along to make a living? Or do you think the people that have immense wealth. This shouldn't be a game of what's fair or not. It should be a game of what will fix the economy? pushing our majority further into debt or taxing billionaires a bit more to decrease overall debt? Do you think that decreasing the overall debt won't encourage profit for your businesses and the way you make a living? Will a tax increase lower your quality of life? Or are you just being selfish? HAHAHAHAHA this cracks me up 1) It assumes that if we give them more of our money they will spend it to reduce the deficit, instead of some other big government program. 2) It makes the ridiculous claim that my keeping some of my OWN money (that I earned by myself btw, no one earned it for me), is somehow selfish. 3) How about before I give them anymore money they promise to stop spending it on dumb wasteful things. Why don't you tell me why you think you are entitled to the money I earn? So you went out and earned every dollar by your self? what a joke. You certainly didn't earn it for me... you can't possibly be serious. I'm pretty sure systems in place in this great country facilitated your ability to make the money you made. So that means you got help. :D You say if you give this money to the government they'll spend it on some other random ***? In that case you would be fine because if this country is going to break I'd imagine helping the government is going to be a hell of a lot better than letting the ship sink :/ Oh well. When the economy crashes you'd lose more than the poor either way so it's your loss. These loss of jobs are your fault specifically.(this is me joking in a serious manner) I might not know as much as you "claim to know" about political posturing but the wealthy keeping the money they made on the backs of the poor obviously isn't being redistributed properly or we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. I am going to address this last line in bold each time you try to make an argument about it if you like? Or which other one would you like me to go back to? and why do you think I am getting your money? are you stupid? like the government taxing YOU gives me money. your wealth was facilitated and developed within the US government. they allowed you to get as wealthy as you possibly can be. if you want to throw them under the bus because you are busy questioning their motives that's all on you. you are the reason our economy is failing. as well as the fact that the wealthy are...lol wat the government themselves! crazy! Do you have a Freddy and Fanny backed mortgage? Then you specifically getting my money... Do you take public transportation? Then you specifically are getting my money... Do you eat farm produce, drive an automobile, smoke tobacco, read anti tobacco advertising, visit national parks, use electricity, drink water, etc etc etc? If you use, interact with any kind of industry that receives government subsidies? Then you specifically are getting my money... are you stupid??? Here's an idea, I don't want to spend your money for you, especially on some of the ridiculous things that its being spent on. Instead, I want YOU to spend it on what you want to spend it on. then don't live in society you narrow minded imbecile, go live by yourself on an island, be self sustained, and be willing to protect yourself from those that come to harm you yourself, and don't ask for any help, otherwise stop bitching. Let me get this straight. She is narrowminded by proposing more freedom for people to have choice? I think that's litterally the opposite of being narrowminded. no what she is proposing is anarchy or somehow a non funded government, sorry but taxes are what you pay for society, you either live with it and pay them, or don't and don't. The amount of tax revenue from the average joe is next to nothing, so people need to stop bitching and suck it up.
Actually it appears that Vinv is a marxist/structualist while zandra appears to be a capitalist. Don't be confused that marxism = communism that isn't the case, though the average person today thinks they are the same.
As for you Jet, I don't think Zandra said she was against all taxes. I'm fairly sure she meant that she couldn't see paying more taxes than now because they aren't being used effectively.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-12 11:11:47
Phoenix.Excelior said: Actually it appears that Vinv is a marxist/structualist while zandra appears to be a capitalist. Don't be confused that marxism = communism that isn't the case, though the average person today thinks they are the same.
As for you Jet, I don't think Zandra said she was against all taxes. I'm fairly sure she meant that she couldn't see paying more taxes than now because they aren't being used effectively. Red Scare really did a number on the U.S. lol
That actually fits the way I believe pretty well.
Good one on ya for that. I don't really care to define myself most of the time, but Marxism loosely fits I guess :D
I'm all about comfort, which essentially is the foundation of human desire and it doesn't take billions of dollars in your bank account to be comfortable..lol
But I guess people will disagree with that and rather stick up for #1 most of the time because that's how we were taught how to survive in today's society. But W/E...nothing last forever :D(except for maybe carbon?)
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2595
By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2010-11-12 11:35:42
Cerberus.Zandra said:
Let me connect the dots for you, when the "rich" invest their money, that creates jobs which in turn create more wealth and more money.
I.E. if by extending the BUSH tax cuts I get to keep an additional 2k of my own money, I might invest that into painting my house, or finishing off my basement. This creates a job that didn't exist before. Not only that but it also creates wealth because now my house is worth more than it was before it was painted. Win/win.
If I get 20k of my own money back I can invest more heavily and maybe say help my brother start a business, or buy stock and invest in some bio-tech company who then develops the artificial heart and saves millions of people. Again Win/win.
"Win/win" only if this actually happens. Sadly, your vision is idealistic, and not realistic.
Yes, if you had $2,000 more in your wallet, you might hire some contractors and/or buy stuff @ Home Depot, and yes, that could potentially put some people to work and generate some government revenue in sales taxes.
However, "you" and the most wealthy Americans are quite different. The most wealthy Americans (this is a generalization, there are always exceptions) tend to spend dollars on overseas travel and property, on purchasing foreign-made automobiles/boats/aircraft, and frequently shelter their money from US income taxation by using foreign bank accounts and/or "writing it off" as business expenses, personal "gifts", and/or selective charitable donations (for which they likely receive kickback benefits).
The wealthiest Americans don't "create jobs" in America when they are taxed less. It just means they have more discretionary money to spend on luxuries or more interest and dividends monies to live on.
Ending the Bush Tax cuts for Americans that earn greater than $250,000 per year is sound, valid political science. And it will happen ... just apparently not this year.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-12 11:55:06
Phoenix.Excelior said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: I just don't understand why the wealthy thinks it has to be fair. If the poor had the money to afford increased taxes on the in line with the wealthy do you think it's fair that the poor have to scrape along to make a living? Or do you think the people that have immense wealth. This shouldn't be a game of what's fair or not. It should be a game of what will fix the economy? pushing our majority further into debt or taxing billionaires a bit more to decrease overall debt? Do you think that decreasing the overall debt won't encourage profit for your businesses and the way you make a living? Will a tax increase lower your quality of life? Or are you just being selfish? HAHAHAHAHA this cracks me up 1) It assumes that if we give them more of our money they will spend it to reduce the deficit, instead of some other big government program. 2) It makes the ridiculous claim that my keeping some of my OWN money (that I earned by myself btw, no one earned it for me), is somehow selfish. 3) How about before I give them anymore money they promise to stop spending it on dumb wasteful things. Why don't you tell me why you think you are entitled to the money I earn? So you went out and earned every dollar by your self? what a joke. You certainly didn't earn it for me... you can't possibly be serious. I'm pretty sure systems in place in this great country facilitated your ability to make the money you made. So that means you got help. :D You say if you give this money to the government they'll spend it on some other random ***? In that case you would be fine because if this country is going to break I'd imagine helping the government is going to be a hell of a lot better than letting the ship sink :/ Oh well. When the economy crashes you'd lose more than the poor either way so it's your loss. These loss of jobs are your fault specifically.(this is me joking in a serious manner) I might not know as much as you "claim to know" about political posturing but the wealthy keeping the money they made on the backs of the poor obviously isn't being redistributed properly or we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. I am going to address this last line in bold each time you try to make an argument about it if you like? Or which other one would you like me to go back to? and why do you think I am getting your money? are you stupid? like the government taxing YOU gives me money. your wealth was facilitated and developed within the US government. they allowed you to get as wealthy as you possibly can be. if you want to throw them under the bus because you are busy questioning their motives that's all on you. you are the reason our economy is failing. as well as the fact that the wealthy are...lol wat the government themselves! crazy! Do you have a Freddy and Fanny backed mortgage? Then you specifically getting my money... Do you take public transportation? Then you specifically are getting my money... Do you eat farm produce, drive an automobile, smoke tobacco, read anti tobacco advertising, visit national parks, use electricity, drink water, etc etc etc? If you use, interact with any kind of industry that receives government subsidies? Then you specifically are getting my money... are you stupid??? Here's an idea, I don't want to spend your money for you, especially on some of the ridiculous things that its being spent on. Instead, I want YOU to spend it on what you want to spend it on. then don't live in society you narrow minded imbecile, go live by yourself on an island, be self sustained, and be willing to protect yourself from those that come to harm you yourself, and don't ask for any help, otherwise stop bitching. Let me get this straight. She is narrowminded by proposing more freedom for people to have choice? I think that's litterally the opposite of being narrowminded. no what she is proposing is anarchy or somehow a non funded government, sorry but taxes are what you pay for society, you either live with it and pay them, or don't and don't. The amount of tax revenue from the average joe is next to nothing, so people need to stop bitching and suck it up.
Actually it appears that Vinv is a marxist/structualist while zandra appears to be a capitalist. Don't be confused that marxism = communism that isn't the case, though the average person today thinks they are the same.
As for you Jet, I don't think Zandra said she was against all taxes. I'm fairly sure she meant that she couldn't see paying more taxes than now because they aren't being used effectively.
well last I checked these taxes were in place, they were cut back as a poor bush era policy and are a great amount of our debt iirc something like 200billion/year, also unless she's in the top earning bracket it wouldn't affect her in any way shape or form, and quite frankly how the government spends every last penny isn't her place to say, it's her representative's place to say.
Phoenix.Excelior
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-12 12:01:13
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: I just don't understand why the wealthy thinks it has to be fair. If the poor had the money to afford increased taxes on the in line with the wealthy do you think it's fair that the poor have to scrape along to make a living? Or do you think the people that have immense wealth. This shouldn't be a game of what's fair or not. It should be a game of what will fix the economy? pushing our majority further into debt or taxing billionaires a bit more to decrease overall debt? Do you think that decreasing the overall debt won't encourage profit for your businesses and the way you make a living? Will a tax increase lower your quality of life? Or are you just being selfish? HAHAHAHAHA this cracks me up 1) It assumes that if we give them more of our money they will spend it to reduce the deficit, instead of some other big government program. 2) It makes the ridiculous claim that my keeping some of my OWN money (that I earned by myself btw, no one earned it for me), is somehow selfish. 3) How about before I give them anymore money they promise to stop spending it on dumb wasteful things. Why don't you tell me why you think you are entitled to the money I earn? So you went out and earned every dollar by your self? what a joke. You certainly didn't earn it for me... you can't possibly be serious. I'm pretty sure systems in place in this great country facilitated your ability to make the money you made. So that means you got help. :D You say if you give this money to the government they'll spend it on some other random ***? In that case you would be fine because if this country is going to break I'd imagine helping the government is going to be a hell of a lot better than letting the ship sink :/ Oh well. When the economy crashes you'd lose more than the poor either way so it's your loss. These loss of jobs are your fault specifically.(this is me joking in a serious manner) I might not know as much as you "claim to know" about political posturing but the wealthy keeping the money they made on the backs of the poor obviously isn't being redistributed properly or we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. I am going to address this last line in bold each time you try to make an argument about it if you like? Or which other one would you like me to go back to? and why do you think I am getting your money? are you stupid? like the government taxing YOU gives me money. your wealth was facilitated and developed within the US government. they allowed you to get as wealthy as you possibly can be. if you want to throw them under the bus because you are busy questioning their motives that's all on you. you are the reason our economy is failing. as well as the fact that the wealthy are...lol wat the government themselves! crazy! Do you have a Freddy and Fanny backed mortgage? Then you specifically getting my money... Do you take public transportation? Then you specifically are getting my money... Do you eat farm produce, drive an automobile, smoke tobacco, read anti tobacco advertising, visit national parks, use electricity, drink water, etc etc etc? If you use, interact with any kind of industry that receives government subsidies? Then you specifically are getting my money... are you stupid??? Here's an idea, I don't want to spend your money for you, especially on some of the ridiculous things that its being spent on. Instead, I want YOU to spend it on what you want to spend it on. then don't live in society you narrow minded imbecile, go live by yourself on an island, be self sustained, and be willing to protect yourself from those that come to harm you yourself, and don't ask for any help, otherwise stop bitching. Let me get this straight. She is narrowminded by proposing more freedom for people to have choice? I think that's litterally the opposite of being narrowminded. no what she is proposing is anarchy or somehow a non funded government, sorry but taxes are what you pay for society, you either live with it and pay them, or don't and don't. The amount of tax revenue from the average joe is next to nothing, so people need to stop bitching and suck it up. Actually it appears that Vinv is a marxist/structualist while zandra appears to be a capitalist. Don't be confused that marxism = communism that isn't the case, though the average person today thinks they are the same. As for you Jet, I don't think Zandra said she was against all taxes. I'm fairly sure she meant that she couldn't see paying more taxes than now because they aren't being used effectively. well last I checked these taxes were in place, they were cut back as a poor bush era policy and are a great amount of our debt iirc something like 200billion/year, also unless she's in the top earning bracket it wouldn't affect her in any way shape or form, and quite frankly how the government spends every last penny isn't her place to say, it's her representative's place to say.
Politicians are there do the work and the will of the people. Government is OF the people, not FOR the people. It is pathetically arrogant to think that government knows best. The people ALWAYS know what is best.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-11-12 12:06:27
Ok since devaluing the dollar to the Yuan is a little hard to theorize, trust me it is, I'm going to throw out this question.
Who's in favor of putting Zandra and Excelior on a rocket and sending it to the moon?
EDIT: Even Jaerik was like *** that, I'm not an economist, not even going to try. Even economists vastly vary on what would happen.
[+]
Cerberus.Arkhana
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 99
By Cerberus.Arkhana 2010-11-12 12:07:17
Cerberus.Zandra said:
Let me connect the dots for you, when the "rich" invest their money, that creates jobs which in turn create more wealth and more money.
I.E. if by extending the BUSH tax cuts I get to keep an additional 2k of my own money, I might invest that into painting my house, or finishing off my basement. This creates a job that didn't exist before. Not only that but it also creates wealth because now my house is worth more than it was before it was painted. Win/win.
If I get 20k of my own money back I can invest more heavily and maybe say help my brother start a business, or buy stock and invest in some bio-tech company who then develops the artificial heart and saves millions of people. Again Win/win.
I would completely agree with that if... it would ever happened. But who's gonna put his money in some risky business, when Wall Street has thousands of good and profitable speculative investments for you, or when you can just buy stock, let hardworking classes create the wealth for you, and then eventually fire them to make even more... umm...
Then yeah, cutting taxes for the richest, why not, but let's force them to put it back into the economy, instead of just making it just fly away in some Tax Heavens... but oh wait... that's against constitution, isn't it ?
But hey, don't worry about them really, what's increasing at a much quicker rate than taxes are CEO's, shareholders and bank owner's pockets... lol
But once again, i theorically agree with you. Theorically only, lol.
[+]
Phoenix.Excelior
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-12 12:13:32
Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ok since devaluing the dollar to the Yuan is a little hard to theorize, trust me it is, I'm going to throw out this question. Who's in favor of putting Zandra and Excelior on a rocket and sending it to the moon?
I think it's funny that professing freedom is considered to be offensive. I wonder if you desire to have no choices and no rights and no freedoms? Curious that you would have to choose to give up in order to not have them.
Freedom is the inevitable, ultimate, most effective form of society. The greater your liberation the more enjoyable your life will become.
You wish more taxes and more laws and yet those things aren't "real".
Freedom and happiness do not come from laws. Laws have no physical value. Freedom and happiness are NATURAL values that come with the conscience mind and the ability to independently think. Don't constrain your mind by forcing upon yourself such artifical limitations.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/10/white-house-gives-in-on-bush-tax-cuts_n_781992.html
so uh...Happy Veteran's Day I guess. >_>
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