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Bad news for the unemployed
 Titan.Wombat
サーバ: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 774
By Titan.Wombat 2010-11-18 18:14:49
Phoenix.Excelior said: Titan.Wombat said: Phoenix.Excelior said: To an extent Ravahan is right. A lot of people don't understand that life can be a ***. I have friends at college who have 3.75 GPAs and I know they won't be able to do a job when they leave. Success is not a function of knowledge or intelligence, or experience. Success boils down to only one factor: Ambition Ambition is the process of loving and hating yourself at the SAME time. I'm sure everyone on these forums thinks I am an arrogant *** hole. I'll be honest with you; I hate myself. No matter how much I accomplish, or how many good things happen to me, I am never happy with myself. I base my entire life upon competition and so far I have yet to really "fail" at anything. At the same time I've always completely failed at being satisfied. You need to decide whether you want to be happy or successful. You really can't be both, because the moment you become content you lose that drive. People have to understand that the entire course of your life should be a quest to better yourself and your family. You should be always improving your education, working for promotions, etc. A SHITLOAD of Americans get so far and then they stop going. Sometimes the most successful people aren't even that smart, they just don't give up no matter how much people hate them or how bad they really are. I'd rather be moderately "successful" while maintaining great relationships with my wife and, in the future, kids. . Not every family can handle having a father who works 24/7. Barack Obama definetely gives up a lot of time with his family in order to do his job. Many CEOs do as well. There is no question that success requires a lot of sacrifice.
Not really. I'd say it depends on what you value. Personally, I think that relationships are much more important than wealth or notoriety. In your first post you said that one must choose between happiness and success. I say, one would have to be a great fool to choose success.
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 Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-18 18:15:39
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Gilgamesh.Alyria said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Gilgamesh.Alyria said: It's true, a hispanic will work for low wages because ppl want to get paid higher. Including ppl with little experience get offered a job for 8 bux an hour to do a bit of yard work and first thing out their mouth is "No, pay me $15 an hour". So who will take the job for $8? of course a hispanic will. even if they are illegal but guess who are the ones bitching for pay at $8? the ones who are legal...
It depends where you live. If you live in a more rural state like Idaho then people will take those jobs right away. However, if you live in Cali, or New Yowk (add the jersey accent on there), and places where it costs more to live then no, $8 will not cut it, unless you have 10 million *** people living in your house.
True, but ask a teenager or even someone here in maryland. I get mad at my brothers for denying to get work with someone offering them about $7-$9/hr. They say they want more money....
I worked since I was 15 years old, I started out with just $5 bux an hour just filing papers in a office and now I make 40.5k a year, i never stayed without work, i always had a job, i didnt have a car, i walked everywhere.... but my brothers...nah they "NEED" a car to work... I find a lot make excuses to not take a job thats just down the street...
Lol, that's so true. Kids these days think money grows on trees.
Here in NJ you can get a job starting at $8-$10/hr pumping gas. There're openings for these jobs all the time. Easiest job in the world and you can tell off customers all you want. Yet I'm sure there's people bitching about these jobs too.
*Starts day dreaming*
Me: "I see you have a jesus fish on your car."
Them: "Yes, what of it?"
*Finishes pumping gas*
Me: "*** you, and *** him too!"
Them: "What? Go to hell you rotten son of a ***."
Me: "Yes."
Ah, it be a perfect life. Except you would not do any of this.
[+]
 Phoenix.Excelior
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-18 18:15:59
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Titan.Wombat said: Phoenix.Excelior said: To an extent Ravahan is right. A lot of people don't understand that life can be a ***. I have friends at college who have 3.75 GPAs and I know they won't be able to do a job when they leave. Success is not a function of knowledge or intelligence, or experience. Success boils down to only one factor: Ambition Ambition is the process of loving and hating yourself at the SAME time. I'm sure everyone on these forums thinks I am an arrogant *** hole. I'll be honest with you; I hate myself. No matter how much I accomplish, or how many good things happen to me, I am never happy with myself. I base my entire life upon competition and so far I have yet to really "fail" at anything. At the same time I've always completely failed at being satisfied. You need to decide whether you want to be happy or successful. You really can't be both, because the moment you become content you lose that drive. People have to understand that the entire course of your life should be a quest to better yourself and your family. You should be always improving your education, working for promotions, etc. A SHITLOAD of Americans get so far and then they stop going. Sometimes the most successful people aren't even that smart, they just don't give up no matter how much people hate them or how bad they really are. I'd rather be moderately "successful" while maintaining great relationships with my wife and, in the future, kids. I think he mixes up the capitalist dream with the more realistic pursuit of happiness
That's a good point. Happiness is certainly subjective a well. You might be perfectly happy living in a trailer park with a family you love. You may be perfectly happy being a CEO and having no family at all. Certainly there is middle ground but for most Americans the balance between Personal and Professional life is in constant flux.
Asura.Eeek
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 768
By Asura.Eeek 2010-11-18 18:16:25
Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Asura.Eeek said:
Good luck with that. Countless people have tried and failed over thousands of years to create a perfect government and/or perfect bureaucracy.
I don't see it happening any time soon.
Yea I know, cut em all off. Survival of the fittest.
I don't know why people are so in love with this Hobbesian fantasy in modern times. Do people just know nothing about the European Dark Ages? The first European colonies in North America? Why not something more recent: the Great Depression? Why must we glorify suffering?
I think it appeals to our American ethos: self-reliance, ingenuity, and the promise of success with hard work. It doesn't matter that our ethos fails to account for the reality of hard times and difficult situations. We Americans like winners! *** everyone who happens to lose once in awhile, and grind your boots into the chests of those who grow hopeless and quit in despair.
Does it matter that this attitude directly contradicts what one would expect a so-called "Christian" nation to believe? Nah, we're Americans. Facts are for nerds and pussies, and Jesus is only relevant on Sundays.
The people who preach small government, self-reliance, and hard work don't bother to practice what they preach when disaster rolls around. Did a tornado level your town? Demand FEMA to arrive immediately with disaster aid. Did your employer pack up the factory machinery and move to Mexico? Demand unemployment checks! Can't afford insurance with low-paying job? That's what Medicare is for! And don't expect me to organize the neighborhood to repair a broken bridge, that's the local government's job!
But what does the government do? They're just like us. They'll campaign on promises to dismantle accessible health care for all Americans, but what's the first thing they do in Washington DC? Demand to know why their government-run, subsidized health care plan won't take effect for another month.
What's the point of this rant? Americans love the idea of "survival of the fittest." They want a Hobbesian wonderland of small government...that is, until they stand to benefit from the government's presence and programs. Then, all of a sudden, we're all children with our hands outstretched for candy, wanting more. Me me me me me, oh, and *** you.
Hypocrisy, *** yeah!
 Leviathan.Anbu
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 229
By Leviathan.Anbu 2010-11-18 18:17:43
Phoenix.Excelior said: Leviathan.Anbu said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Do you have any evidence of that? I don't think you can prove that unemployment encourages people to stay unemployeed. Let me know. there are thousands of people who do this but I'll give you 1 example that I know of first hand. Lady at work: Her nephew in his early 20s. Loses his job. Applies for unemployment. Lives at home with his parents, has no financial responsibilities. He is currently in Europe, his unemployment checks get mailed to him and he has his mother either send them to him or cash/deposit them for him. He uses this money to do whatever he wants while on a vacation in Europe. Does he really need this money? Is he trying to get a job? Wtf would he look for a job? In his mind he is getting free money so he says *** it. You're missing the point. Does thousands constitute a majority of those on unemployment? That's like saying that *** are lazy because there happens to be 10 unemployeed in brooklyn. It's probably 100's of thousands.. Ha Ha I love the racist *** mentality of these 2 interweb hero's...I guess you 2 were scarred when you walked in on mom getting DP'D by 2 black *** while your *** pop's was taping that ***jerking off...just sayin' ~.0
I love people who can't understand basic english. I wasn't calling them "***" myself. I said "thats like saying" the comment wasn't my own, it was a hypothetical which addressed simliarly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE concepts in an analogous way.
Ok well I was doing the same thing you were then... ^^
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-18 18:18:57
Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Titan.Wombat said: Phoenix.Excelior said: To an extent Ravahan is right. A lot of people don't understand that life can be a ***. I have friends at college who have 3.75 GPAs and I know they won't be able to do a job when they leave. Success is not a function of knowledge or intelligence, or experience. Success boils down to only one factor: Ambition Ambition is the process of loving and hating yourself at the SAME time. I'm sure everyone on these forums thinks I am an arrogant *** hole. I'll be honest with you; I hate myself. No matter how much I accomplish, or how many good things happen to me, I am never happy with myself. I base my entire life upon competition and so far I have yet to really "fail" at anything. At the same time I've always completely failed at being satisfied. You need to decide whether you want to be happy or successful. You really can't be both, because the moment you become content you lose that drive. People have to understand that the entire course of your life should be a quest to better yourself and your family. You should be always improving your education, working for promotions, etc. A SHITLOAD of Americans get so far and then they stop going. Sometimes the most successful people aren't even that smart, they just don't give up no matter how much people hate them or how bad they really are. I'd rather be moderately "successful" while maintaining great relationships with my wife and, in the future, kids. I think he mixes up the capitalist dream with the more realistic pursuit of happiness
That's a good point. Happiness is certainly subjective a well. You might be perfectly happy living in a trailer park with a family you love. You may be perfectly happy being a CEO and having no family at all. Certainly there is middle ground but for most Americans the balance between Personal and Professional life is in constant flux. Why do you have to mention two extremes as examples?
You don't have to be super poor to be happy and you don't have to be super rich to be successful.
Stop this silliness.
But you are correct.
What may be right for you or I may not be right for some :D
Phoenix.Excelior
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-18 18:19:48
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Titan.Wombat said: Phoenix.Excelior said: To an extent Ravahan is right. A lot of people don't understand that life can be a ***. I have friends at college who have 3.75 GPAs and I know they won't be able to do a job when they leave. Success is not a function of knowledge or intelligence, or experience. Success boils down to only one factor: Ambition Ambition is the process of loving and hating yourself at the SAME time. I'm sure everyone on these forums thinks I am an arrogant *** hole. I'll be honest with you; I hate myself. No matter how much I accomplish, or how many good things happen to me, I am never happy with myself. I base my entire life upon competition and so far I have yet to really "fail" at anything. At the same time I've always completely failed at being satisfied. You need to decide whether you want to be happy or successful. You really can't be both, because the moment you become content you lose that drive. People have to understand that the entire course of your life should be a quest to better yourself and your family. You should be always improving your education, working for promotions, etc. A SHITLOAD of Americans get so far and then they stop going. Sometimes the most successful people aren't even that smart, they just don't give up no matter how much people hate them or how bad they really are. I'd rather be moderately "successful" while maintaining great relationships with my wife and, in the future, kids. I think he mixes up the capitalist dream with the more realistic pursuit of happiness That's a good point. Happiness is certainly subjective a well. You might be perfectly happy living in a trailer park with a family you love. You may be perfectly happy being a CEO and having no family at all. Certainly there is middle ground but for most Americans the balance between Personal and Professional life is in constant flux. Why do you have to mention two extremes as examples? You don't have to be super poor to be happy and you don't have to be super rich to be successful. Stop this silliness.
I said there was middle ground. My entire point was that often times to be disproportionately successful compared to other people you will have to make more sacrifices than you might be willing to make.
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2169
By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2010-11-18 18:21:11
Ifrit.Ravahan said: Asura.Olue said: Phoenix.Degs said:
although i can see your point.. the problem with that is, most of these people were making $20+ hr. wages, and even with unemployment benefits they are still getting most of that + healthcare. the problem with working fast food is, that you are not making even close to what you would with your main job or unemployment, the avg. food service worker makes $7 an hr.
that is not enough to make ends meet if you are trying to support a wife and kids
its almost not even worth it to work those kinda jobs...
This is that entitlement attitude I talked about. If you're working a job that pays $20 + Healthcare and you suddenly get laid off, you're not entitled to still get $20 + Healthcare. You aren't even entitled to get $15 - healthcare. You are only entitled to get what you work for.
This same reasoning is why I don't agree with alimony too. A spouse isn't entitled to a portion of their ex-spouses income just because they would otherwise have to make a lifestyle adjustment. It's not the ex-spouses job to maintain their ex's quality of living.
I agree with some amount of a safety net and minor unemployment benefits, but just because you made more than minimum wage before you were unemployed doesn't mean you get to live better than someone who is currently working a minimum wage job. You can't feed your spouse+kids on minimum wage? Tell that to the thousands of people working at minimum wage (or close to it) right now.
The way I see it is that unemployment should be less than minimum wage so that it is fair to everyone else who might already be working for minimum wage. You shouldn't make more than someone making minimum wage while not having to do anything just because you were laid off from a better paying job and don't want to adjust. Someone may have made this point, I've not read the whole thread, but I'm going to throw in my thoughts anyway.
In mid 2008 I was laid off when Dell sent my job to South America for cheaper labor. I was eligable for unemployment, I got $155/week to feed myself and my wife and pay the bills. That works out to be about half minimum wage. Needless to say, we had to cut back. We canceled everything we possibly could except the phone and internet as they were necessary to find/apply for work (My temp guys contacted me by email most of the time). The house we live in is not legally rentable since its in such bad shape and owned by some relatives of mine so, since it was just being used for storage anyway, it was fine for us to live here free. Without that mercy we never would have made it.
Eventually, even though I was looking for work every day both in and outside my area of expertise, my unemployment ran out. I just didn't have the stellar work history I needed to beat out my competition. I'd dropped out of college and never bothered paying for certifications because I either A) was waiting to be eligable for my employer to pay for it or B) broke. In the mean time, I continued doing freelance tech work by referral and to friends/family for tips or food and temp jobs when I could get them making minimum wage or barely over. I checked weekly with 5 temp offices. Usually one of them would have something for me for a day or two, sometimes not. We went days without food when I couldn't buy or steal it, weeks eating only home-made bread and water because we couldn't afford anything else. Maybe we should've leaned on our family more, maybe we did the right thing suffering through it, I don't know. Either way I'm a damned good cook now!
By the time I landed my current job in late 2009 I had lost 60 lbs due to starvation (not that I didn't have it to lose lol). I never want to be unemployed again. I can't even enjoy my days off anymore because, even over a year later, it feels too much like being trapped.
I don't know how the job market is right now, but I know that for me finding work was NOT easy and I had to change careers to do it. I set aside my dreams as a musician for the more practical choice of tech skills only to set those useless skills aside for Chemistry.
Its easy to say that people are slacking off if they've not found work in a year or so when you're not living it. Its easy to pretend people are making enough to live on across America when your belly is full. Its easy to believe that no one's living without climate control when you're toasty all winter and chilly all summer.
Its hard to believe things aren't as great or easy as people tell you, that dreams don't come true or that love isn't all you need. Especially when the chips are down. You have to work at it if you're going to survive something like that as a couple.
/rant
You are the exact person that the system is failing for. You try, you do your best, you did everything you could. You are the one who deserves unemployment and the reason you were limited to the amount provided is because of the vast # of people who take advantage of it, do you not get what we're saying?
Gilgamesh.Alyria said:
True, but ask a teenager or even someone here in maryland. I get mad at my brothers for denying to get work with someone offering them about $7-$9/hr. They say they want more money....
I worked since I was 15 years old, I started out with just $5 bux an hour just filing papers in a office and now I make 40.5k a year, i never stayed without work, i always had a job, i didnt have a car, i walked everywhere.... but my brothers...nah they "NEED" a car to work... I find a lot make excuses to not take a job thats just down the street...
I've done the same thing since I was 15, the longest I went without work was when I was locked up and in rehab 2 months or so when I was 17. I've done just like Alyria and have worked hard to get where I am today. I see a lot of people who just hold out comfortably using resources when they could dip below their pay. (take notes inb4 all the people who come and post saying they looked for jobs below their normal pay grade maybe you are an exception I did not name you that does not mean there are not a ***ton of people who do this especially here in Silicon Valley)
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-18 18:21:31
The difference between actual reality and projected reality is what creates many problems in this world today.
[+]
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2169
By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2010-11-18 18:22:54
Asura.Eeek said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Asura.Eeek said:
Good luck with that. Countless people have tried and failed over thousands of years to create a perfect government and/or perfect bureaucracy.
I don't see it happening any time soon.
Yea I know, cut em all off. Survival of the fittest.
I don't know why people are so in love with this Hobbesian fantasy in modern times. Do people just know nothing about the European Dark Ages? The first European colonies in North America? Why not something more recent: the Great Depression? Why must we glorify suffering?
I think it appeals to our American ethos: self-reliance, ingenuity, and the promise of success with hard work. It doesn't matter that our ethos fails to account for the reality of hard times and difficult situations. We Americans like winners! *** everyone who happens to lose once in awhile, and grind your boots into the chests of those who grow hopeless and quit in despair.
Does it matter that this attitude directly contradicts what one would expect a so-called "Christian" nation to believe? Nah, we're Americans. Facts are for nerds and pussies, and Jesus is only relevant on Sundays.
The people who preach small government, self-reliance, and hard work don't bother to practice what they preach when disaster rolls around. Did a tornado level your town? Demand FEMA to arrive immediately with disaster aid. Did your employer pack up the factory machinery and move to Mexico? Demand unemployment checks! Can't afford insurance with low-paying job? That's what Medicare is for! And don't expect me to organize the neighborhood to repair a broken bridge, that's the local government's job!
But what does the government do? They're just like us. They'll campaign on promises to dismantle accessible health care for all Americans, but what's the first thing they do in Washington DC? Demand to know why their government-run, subsidized health care plan won't take effect for another month.
What's the point of this rant? Americans love the idea of "survival of the fittest." They want a Hobbesian wonderland...that is, until they stand to benefit from the government's presence and programs. Then, all of a sudden, we're all children with our hands outstretched for candy, wanting more. Me me me me me, oh, and *** you.
Hypocrisy, *** yeah!
It's an insult to the people who lived through the Great Depression to compare this day and age so closely to it, go out and talk to people who lived through it and their experiences, I have they are no where even close to each other.
Phoenix.Excelior
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-18 18:23:30
Asura.Eeek said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Asura.Eeek said: Good luck with that. Countless people have tried and failed over thousands of years to create a perfect government and/or perfect bureaucracy. I don't see it happening any time soon. Yea I know, cut em all off. Survival of the fittest. I don't know why people are so in love with this Hobbesian fantasy in modern times. Do people just know nothing about the European Dark Ages? The first European colonies in North America? Why not something more recent: the Great Depression? Why must we glorify suffering? I think it appeals to our American ethos: self-reliance, ingenuity, and the promise of success with hard work. It doesn't matter that our ethos fails to account for the reality of hard times and difficult situations. We Americans like winners! *** everyone who happens to lose once in awhile, and grind your boots into the chests of those who grow hopeless and quit in despair. Does it matter that this attitude directly contradicts what one would expect a so-called "Christian" nation to believe? Nah, we're Americans. Facts are for nerds and pussies, and Jesus is only relevant on Sundays. The people who preach small government, self-reliance, and hard work don't bother to practice what they preach when disaster rolls around. Did a tornado level your town? Demand FEMA to arrive immediately with disaster aid. Did your employer pack up the factory machinery and move to Mexico? Demand unemployment checks! Can't afford insurance with low-paying job? That's what Medicare is for! And don't expect me to organize the neighborhood to repair a broken bridge, that's the local government's job! But what does the government do? They're just like us. They'll campaign on promises to dismantle accessible health care for all Americans, but what's the first thing they do in Washington DC? Demand to know why their government-run, subsidized health care plan won't take effect for another month. What's the point of this rant? Americans love the idea of "survival of the fittest." They want a Hobbesian wonderland...that is, until they stand to benefit from the government's presence and programs. Then, all of a sudden, we're all children with our hands outstretched for candy, wanting more. Me me me me me, oh, and *** you. Hypocrisy, *** yeah!
The funny thing is that our society is also highly based off of the works of Adam Smith and liberal economics. Most Americans don't realize that cooperation is required because we're a diversified workforce. Diversity and letting everyone be free to create their own success leads to benefits for EVERYONE. This entire idea that we should let our neighbors completely fail is utterly preposterous. Capitalism is not meant to be selfish for the sake of being selfish, it's meant to have honest and pure competition.
Phoenix.Excelior
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-18 18:27:42
Ramuh.Vinvv said: The difference between actual reality and projected reality is what creates many problems in this world today.
I try to say that in almost every thread and people miss the point. Hell, even college teachers don't usually understand it.
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 66
By Ifrit.Ravahan 2010-11-18 18:30:28
Phoenix.Excelior said: To an extent Ravahan is right. A lot of people don't understand that life can be a ***. I have friends at college who have 3.75 GPAs and I know they won't be able to do a job when they leave. Success is not a function of knowledge or intelligence, or experience. Success boils down to only one factor:
Ambition
Ambition is the process of loving and hating yourself at the SAME time. I'm sure everyone on these forums thinks I am an arrogant *** hole. I'll be honest with you; I hate myself. No matter how much I accomplish, or how many good things happen to me, I am never happy with myself. I base my entire life upon competition and so far I have yet to really "fail" at anything. At the same time I've always completely failed at being satisfied.
You need to decide whether you want to be happy or successful. You really can't be both, because the moment you become content you lose that drive. People have to understand that the entire course of your life should be a quest to better yourself and your family. You should be always improving your education, working for promotions, etc. A SHITLOAD of Americans get so far and then they stop going. Sometimes the most successful people aren't even that smart, they just don't give up no matter how much people hate them or how bad they really are. QFT. We, sir, have similar clockwork I think.
Asura.Eeek
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 768
By Asura.Eeek 2010-11-18 18:30:39
Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Asura.Eeek said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Asura.Eeek said:
Good luck with that. Countless people have tried and failed over thousands of years to create a perfect government and/or perfect bureaucracy.
I don't see it happening any time soon.
Yea I know, cut em all off. Survival of the fittest.
I don't know why people are so in love with this Hobbesian fantasy in modern times. Do people just know nothing about the European Dark Ages? The first European colonies in North America? Why not something more recent: the Great Depression? Why must we glorify suffering?
I think it appeals to our American ethos: self-reliance, ingenuity, and the promise of success with hard work. It doesn't matter that our ethos fails to account for the reality of hard times and difficult situations. We Americans like winners! *** everyone who happens to lose once in awhile, and grind your boots into the chests of those who grow hopeless and quit in despair.
Does it matter that this attitude directly contradicts what one would expect a so-called "Christian" nation to believe? Nah, we're Americans. Facts are for nerds and pussies, and Jesus is only relevant on Sundays.
The people who preach small government, self-reliance, and hard work don't bother to practice what they preach when disaster rolls around. Did a tornado level your town? Demand FEMA to arrive immediately with disaster aid. Did your employer pack up the factory machinery and move to Mexico? Demand unemployment checks! Can't afford insurance with low-paying job? That's what Medicare is for! And don't expect me to organize the neighborhood to repair a broken bridge, that's the local government's job!
But what does the government do? They're just like us. They'll campaign on promises to dismantle accessible health care for all Americans, but what's the first thing they do in Washington DC? Demand to know why their government-run, subsidized health care plan won't take effect for another month.
What's the point of this rant? Americans love the idea of "survival of the fittest." They want a Hobbesian wonderland...that is, until they stand to benefit from the government's presence and programs. Then, all of a sudden, we're all children with our hands outstretched for candy, wanting more. Me me me me me, oh, and *** you.
Hypocrisy, *** yeah!
It's an insult to the people who lived through the Great Depression to compare this day and age so closely to it, go out and talk to people who lived through it and their experiences, I have they are no where even close to each other.
When's the last time you visited Michigan, or any of the other Rust Belt states?
I think your egocentrism is blinding you to the point I'm trying to make.
[+]
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-18 18:37:23
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Gilgamesh.Alyria said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Gilgamesh.Alyria said: It's true, a hispanic will work for low wages because ppl want to get paid higher. Including ppl with little experience get offered a job for 8 bux an hour to do a bit of yard work and first thing out their mouth is "No, pay me $15 an hour". So who will take the job for $8? of course a hispanic will. even if they are illegal but guess who are the ones bitching for pay at $8? the ones who are legal...
It depends where you live. If you live in a more rural state like Idaho then people will take those jobs right away. However, if you live in Cali, or New Yowk (add the jersey accent on there), and places where it costs more to live then no, $8 will not cut it, unless you have 10 million *** people living in your house.
True, but ask a teenager or even someone here in maryland. I get mad at my brothers for denying to get work with someone offering them about $7-$9/hr. They say they want more money....
I worked since I was 15 years old, I started out with just $5 bux an hour just filing papers in a office and now I make 40.5k a year, i never stayed without work, i always had a job, i didnt have a car, i walked everywhere.... but my brothers...nah they "NEED" a car to work... I find a lot make excuses to not take a job thats just down the street...
Lol, that's so true. Kids these days think money grows on trees.
Here in NJ you can get a job starting at $8-$10/hr pumping gas. There're openings for these jobs all the time. Easiest job in the world and you can tell off customers all you want. Yet I'm sure there's people bitching about these jobs too.
*Starts day dreaming*
Me: "I see you have a jesus fish on your car."
Them: "Yes, what of it?"
*Finishes pumping gas*
Me: "*** you, and *** him too!"
Them: "What? Go to hell you rotten son of a ***."
Me: "Yes."
Ah, it be a perfect life. Except you would not do any of this.
Try me. How would I try you exactly?
I think I would make you purr like a little kitten.
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2169
By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2010-11-18 18:41:47
Asura.Eeek said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Asura.Eeek said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Asura.Eeek said:
Good luck with that. Countless people have tried and failed over thousands of years to create a perfect government and/or perfect bureaucracy.
I don't see it happening any time soon.
Yea I know, cut em all off. Survival of the fittest.
I don't know why people are so in love with this Hobbesian fantasy in modern times. Do people just know nothing about the European Dark Ages? The first European colonies in North America? Why not something more recent: the Great Depression? Why must we glorify suffering?
I think it appeals to our American ethos: self-reliance, ingenuity, and the promise of success with hard work. It doesn't matter that our ethos fails to account for the reality of hard times and difficult situations. We Americans like winners! *** everyone who happens to lose once in awhile, and grind your boots into the chests of those who grow hopeless and quit in despair.
Does it matter that this attitude directly contradicts what one would expect a so-called "Christian" nation to believe? Nah, we're Americans. Facts are for nerds and pussies, and Jesus is only relevant on Sundays.
The people who preach small government, self-reliance, and hard work don't bother to practice what they preach when disaster rolls around. Did a tornado level your town? Demand FEMA to arrive immediately with disaster aid. Did your employer pack up the factory machinery and move to Mexico? Demand unemployment checks! Can't afford insurance with low-paying job? That's what Medicare is for! And don't expect me to organize the neighborhood to repair a broken bridge, that's the local government's job!
But what does the government do? They're just like us. They'll campaign on promises to dismantle accessible health care for all Americans, but what's the first thing they do in Washington DC? Demand to know why their government-run, subsidized health care plan won't take effect for another month.
What's the point of this rant? Americans love the idea of "survival of the fittest." They want a Hobbesian wonderland...that is, until they stand to benefit from the government's presence and programs. Then, all of a sudden, we're all children with our hands outstretched for candy, wanting more. Me me me me me, oh, and *** you.
Hypocrisy, *** yeah!
It's an insult to the people who lived through the Great Depression to compare this day and age so closely to it, go out and talk to people who lived through it and their experiences, I have they are no where even close to each other.
When's the last time you visited Michigan, or any of the other Rust Belt states?
I think your egocentrism is blinding you to the point I'm trying to make.
A) Michigan is not as bad as The Great Depression, you need to seriously stop insulting the Americans who literally did ANYTHING they could to feed their families, it's a *** slap in the face dude, go talk to people who lived through it, the people I know who lived through it save milk cartons to this day to use them for storage they are beyond resourceful and don't waste ***cause they were taught how to live with what you got.
B) If it were that bad I would move the *** out inb4cantmovenotenoughmoney ***, people move with NOTHING and move to places where they have NOTHING and make something out of it go talk to a single parent who has done so.
Asura.Eeek said:
Does it matter that this attitude directly contradicts what one would expect a so-called "Christian" nation to believe? Nah, we're Americans. Facts are for nerds and pussies, and Jesus is only relevant on Sundays.
The people who preach small government, self-reliance, and hard work don't bother to practice what they preach when disaster rolls around. Did a tornado level your town? Demand FEMA to arrive immediately with disaster aid. Did your employer pack up the factory machinery and move to Mexico? Demand unemployment checks! Can't afford insurance with low-paying job? That's what Medicare is for! And don't expect me to organize the neighborhood to repair a broken bridge, that's the local government's job!
Nah, this is exactly how I preach and how I feel. Everything you listed I disagree with.
Quote: The people who preach small government, self-reliance, and hard work don't bother to practice what they preach when disaster rolls around
I sent and send money and supplies in National and sometimes Global disaster aid reliefs, I have not gone to help myself but have had friends who were in a fortunate enough situation to fly out and offer their help (Katrina specifically)
Quote: Did a tornado level your town? Demand FEMA to arrive immediately with disaster aid.
I am not someone who puts this responsibility solely on the government or FEMA, I also don't blame FEMA for not responding perfectly to the worst natural disaster since the 1930s.
Quote: Did your employer pack up the factory machinery and move to Mexico? Demand unemployment checks!
Have you been reading my posts?
Quote: Can't afford insurance with low-paying job? That's what Medicare is for!
Medicare is an abused *** program and it's only bound to get worse.
Quote: And don't expect me to organize the neighborhood to repair a broken bridge, that's the local government's job!
Yea, I see this as Government's responsibility, my taxes go towards paying for the roads unless it was a private bridge.
If you weren't directly speaking to me, then all I can say is don't quote me.
Asura.Eeek
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 768
By Asura.Eeek 2010-11-18 18:43:12
Phoenix.Excelior said: Asura.Eeek said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Asura.Eeek said: Good luck with that. Countless people have tried and failed over thousands of years to create a perfect government and/or perfect bureaucracy. I don't see it happening any time soon. Yea I know, cut em all off. Survival of the fittest. I don't know why people are so in love with this Hobbesian fantasy in modern times. Do people just know nothing about the European Dark Ages? The first European colonies in North America? Why not something more recent: the Great Depression? Why must we glorify suffering? I think it appeals to our American ethos: self-reliance, ingenuity, and the promise of success with hard work. It doesn't matter that our ethos fails to account for the reality of hard times and difficult situations. We Americans like winners! *** everyone who happens to lose once in awhile, and grind your boots into the chests of those who grow hopeless and quit in despair. Does it matter that this attitude directly contradicts what one would expect a so-called "Christian" nation to believe? Nah, we're Americans. Facts are for nerds and pussies, and Jesus is only relevant on Sundays. The people who preach small government, self-reliance, and hard work don't bother to practice what they preach when disaster rolls around. Did a tornado level your town? Demand FEMA to arrive immediately with disaster aid. Did your employer pack up the factory machinery and move to Mexico? Demand unemployment checks! Can't afford insurance with low-paying job? That's what Medicare is for! And don't expect me to organize the neighborhood to repair a broken bridge, that's the local government's job! But what does the government do? They're just like us. They'll campaign on promises to dismantle accessible health care for all Americans, but what's the first thing they do in Washington DC? Demand to know why their government-run, subsidized health care plan won't take effect for another month. What's the point of this rant? Americans love the idea of "survival of the fittest." They want a Hobbesian wonderland...that is, until they stand to benefit from the government's presence and programs. Then, all of a sudden, we're all children with our hands outstretched for candy, wanting more. Me me me me me, oh, and *** you. Hypocrisy, *** yeah!
The funny thing is that our society is also highly based off of the works of Adam Smith and liberal economics. Most Americans don't realize that cooperation is required because we're a diversified workforce. Diversity and letting everyone be free to create their own success leads to benefits for EVERYONE. This entire idea that we should let our neighbors completely fail is utterly preposterous. Capitalism is not meant to be selfish for the sake of being selfish, it's meant to have honest and pure competition.
I don't always agree with you, but I agree with you here.
Honestly, we need capitalism. It's not all about the profits either. Capitalism is driven by creativity and innovation, and America wouldn't be America without this streak of creativity. Our innovations have profoundly affected the world in our nation's relatively short lifetime, and for the love of God I hope this remains the case for quite some time to come.
I don't agree with those who'd deny unemployment benefits and basic needs like health care to those in need. There's inherent risk in our capitalist system, and not all endeavors can succeed. America cannot survive if its people cannot afford to take risks in the pursuit of their dreams and ultimate success. We need to support those who try and fail, so that they may try again.
I love capitalism and the "what if..." dreams it encourages, but we need some socialistic practices to provide a limited support system for those who fail or fall on hard times.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-18 18:46:28
Quote: Our innovations have profoundly affected the world in our nation's relatively short lifetime, and for the love of God I hope this remains the case for quite some time to come.
can't say for sure if the advancements wouldn't come to be either way.
kind of like how people invent/discover the same things all across the globe.
inevitability IMO.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-18 18:47:30
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: O.o Homosexual advances! I need a mod! I need a mod! What part of my reply was homo?
Making you purr like a kitten doesn't really scream homo for me.
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 66
By Ifrit.Ravahan 2010-11-18 18:54:19
On the subject of the persuit of happiness; If you're satisfied with mediocrity then great. America, for all its preoccupation with Christianity, probably the nation that best represents the principles of Darwin and LaVey. You who are content to understand just enough to get by and never learn why, and who are fine with a career that doesn't progress will be the rungs on the ladder for the men and women of ambition. Capitalism is survival of the fittest.
Buy low, sell high? That's short for "recognize that someone has undervalued their goods and rip them off in order to make a profit selling the same merchandise to people who don't have a connection to the seller." How about "hussling"? We are, all of us, taught from a young age to do what's right by us, to "look out for number 1". That's great advice, because that's exactly what everyone else is going to be doing.
Look at the giants of the American economy. Wal-Mart is a great example. They all screw absolutely everyone they can to stay on top, and that's why they're on top. That's why, if I may continue picking on them, Wal-Mart is the 19th largest economy on earth! To put that in perspective, the nation of Greece is 27th.
I kinda derailed myself... For me, I cannot be happy unless I'm at the top of my game. If I'm stagnating I'm miserable. Happiness, for me, is to be always learning, always improving, always straining for a bigger better slice... because that's what's going to make life easier for me and my family. For you, maybe a plateau is more comfortable than walking up hill. I say do whatever floats your boat and as long as you're not shitting where I walk I'm happy for you.
[+]
 Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-11-18 18:59:56
Ifrit.Ravahan said: On the subject of the persuit of happiness; If you're satisfied with mediocrity then great. America, for all its preoccupation with Christianity, probably the nation that best represents the principles of Darwin and LaVey. You who are content to understand just enough to get by and never learn why, and who are fine with a career that doesn't progress will be the rungs on the ladder for the men and women of ambition. Capitalism is survival of the fittest.
Buy low, sell high? That's short for "recognize that someone has undervalued their goods and rip them off in order to make a profit selling the same merchandise to people who don't have a connection to the seller." How about "hussling"? We are, all of us, taught from a young age to do what's right by us, to "look out for number 1". That's great advice, because that's exactly what everyone else is going to be doing.
Look at the giants of the American economy. Wal-Mart is a great example. They all screw absolutely everyone they can to stay on top, and that's why they're on top. That's why, if I may continue picking on them, Wal-Mart is the 19th largest economy on earth! To put that in perspective, the nation of Greece is 27th.
I kinda derailed myself... For me, I cannot be happy unless I'm at the top of my game. If I'm stagnating I'm miserable. Happiness, for me, is to be always learning, always improving, always straining for a bigger better slice... because that's what's going to make life easier for me and my family. For you, maybe a plateau is more comfortable than walking up hill. I say do whatever floats your boat and as long as you're not shitting where I walk I'm happy for you. Didn't the economy of Greece fail though?
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-18 20:51:35
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: inevitability If one string of past was changed then our reality would not be the exact same actually. when did I mention exactly the same?
and it's easy to just say lofty ***like that because it's not real.
yeah we have an infinite amount of realities blah blah blah i get that.
but that doesn't mean technological revolutions won't happen in a similar manner.
the plot of full metal alchemist is nice and interesting and all but that's all it is. a plot.
unless you can burst through the time-space continuum you really won't know for sure either way though.
Phoenix.Excelior
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-11-18 20:53:10
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: inevitability If one string of past was changed then our reality would not be the exact same actually. when did I mention exactly the same? and it's easy to just say lofty ***like that because it's not real. yeah we have an infinite amount of realities blah blah blah i get that. but that doesn't mean technological revolutions won't happen in a similar manner. the plot of full metal alchemist is nice and interesting and all but that's all it is. a plot. unless you can burst through the time-space continuum you really won't know for sure either way though.
That's why I keep posting on these forums. I know somewhere in another reality somebody is giving a *** what I think.
Kujata.Akeda
サーバ: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1698
By Kujata.Akeda 2010-11-18 20:57:13
Phoenix.Excelior said:
That's why I keep posting on these forums. I know somewhere in another reality somebody is giving a *** what I think.
I thought it was so you could 'stick it to the man'.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-18 21:01:44
Phoenix.Excelior said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: inevitability If one string of past was changed then our reality would not be the exact same actually. when did I mention exactly the same? and it's easy to just say lofty ***like that because it's not real. yeah we have an infinite amount of realities blah blah blah i get that. but that doesn't mean technological revolutions won't happen in a similar manner. the plot of full metal alchemist is nice and interesting and all but that's all it is. a plot. unless you can burst through the time-space continuum you really won't know for sure either way though.
That's why I keep posting on these forums. I know somewhere in another reality somebody is giving a *** what I think. that's almost depressing.
[+]
Unemployment extension didnt pass. 99weeks is up at the end of November for a lot of people.
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- A bill to extend federally-funded benefits for long-term jobless workers failed to pass in the House of Representatives Thursday. To pass the House, the bill needed to capture two-thirds of the votes -- 258 lawmakers voted in favor of the extension, while 154 voting against it. The bill would have extended special federal unemployment insurance benefits through February, calling for $12.5 billion in emergency spending. Without an extension, long-term jobless workers will start losing benefits in coming weeks, with about two million cut off by the end of the year.
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