NIN TP Set/s

Give me 30 minutes.

Pretty sure there's already a spreadsheet that will do all of that, and pretty sure they've already done it.

Nope. Just like algebra class, they aren't happy unless i show my work since doing it in my head is cheating.

Dynamis DC mobs have 436 defense, 393 with dia 2. since if we're counting haste, might as well count dia 2 at least. NIN/WAR, hume with 12 STR merits, Oirandori/Kamome, and Bison Steak.

Set 1: 648 attack. 23% DA. 3% TA. 4.7 TP per hit. 50% DW. 40% Haste

Set 2: 638 attack. 23% DA. 3% TA. 4.3 TP per hit. 57% DW. 36% Haste

1.6489 cRatio for set one. We'll say 1 fSTR from cap, so 11.

1.6234 cRatio for set two. 12 fSTR since it has more STR.

So 55/50 base damage set one, 56/51 set two. Give both sets a 18% crit rate which is about what I parsed last time.

Average hits per round are the same for both sets at 1.219.

55*(1.6489*(1-.18)+(1+1.6489)*.18*1.15) = 104.521
50*(1.6489*(1-.18)+(1+1.6489)*.18*1.15) = 95.019

Multiply both times 1.219 hits per round: 127.405 and 115.823 average per hit. 243.227 average damage per round.

56*(1.6234*(1-.18)+(1+1.6234)*.18*1.15) = 104.958
51*(1.6234*(1-.18)+(1+1.6234)*.18*1.15) = 95.586

Same hits per round: 127.937 + 116.514 = 244.452 average damage per round.

50% DW and 40% haste vs 57% DW and 35% haste

(190+180)*.5 = 185 delay. 185 * .6 = 111 delay with haste and gear
(190+180)*.43 = 159 delay. 159 * .64 = 102 delay with haste and gear.

243.227/(111/60) = 131.474 DPS

244.453/(102/60) = 143.795 DPS

Can assume same TP return for both. Blade shun with rajas would give 13.4 TP return with rajas and brutal. 4.7 x2, +4.

100-13.4 = 86.6 TP to get to 100 again. Can guess about 1 extra round at least of TP overflow for both sets. So 96 TP for set one, and 95.2 for set two.

96/(4.7)/1.219/2 = 8.37 rounds to 100 TP on average
96/(4.3)/1.219/2 = 9.15 rounds to 100 TP for set two.

8.37*111 = 929.07
9.15*102 = 933.3

So if we give both WS like 1600 damage since they'll be equal:

243.227*8.37+1600 = 3635.809 per tp/ws round
244.452*9.15+1600 = 3836.735 per tp/ws rounds

3635.809/(929.07/60) = 234.8 DPS
3836.735/(933.3/60) = 246.656 DPS


Now shut the *** up.

And this is why we don't assume things.

Has anyone ever provided substantial evidence that nin's tp/ws ratio is ~60/40 (with Kannagi/arisui)? Honest question. Every time I see that pop up, it's just an assumption.

No, it's just an assumed number for people who want to do easy math instead of doing it properly. 1600 shun would be about 41% on the math I just did. But 1600 is pretty low for Shun in dynamis. My personal set has like 665 attack with Bison steak, and 159 dex.

So would be closer to 1750 than 1600.

244.452*9.15+1750 = 3986.7358, so about 43-44% ws damage

You really want to compare sets while using sub-par katanas?



Error #1, you don't have 36% haste.


Error #2, vaguely guessing 4 str gives +1fSTR just so it swings things in your favor.


Error #3, if your crit rate is 18% you should be using the Byakkos set, not the usukane set to increase crit rate to 25%. Which would also cancel your hoped for +1 fSTR.


Error #4, that WS average is way to low for some crappy DC mobs.

Error#5, where exactly are you accounting for the 2 second delay you incur while WSing?

If we use a more realistic WS average, and only a more realistic WS average and the rest of your math, we get:

243.227*8.37+2600 = 4635.809 per tp/ws round
244.452*9.15+2600 = 4836.735 per tp/ws rounds

4635.809/(929.07/60) = 299.38 DPS
4836.735/(933.3/60) = 310.94 DPS

You end up with your set gaining about 3.8% damage, but if you take into account using the byakkos set, and capping crit rate, you can see it would easily pull ahead because it will add 7% crit rate, 4% crit damage and that 1 fSTR you decided to give yourself, with all that combined, my set will easy overtake the not quite 4% advantage your has.

Now you shut the *** up.

You just said things, you didn't prove them.

I didn't "guess" 4 STR, set two has 5 STR more than set 1. Using different katanas won't change anything. And 1 fSTR won't make up that much damage on it's own. 18% crit rate counts 5 base, 5 from merits, and 5 from rancor collar. 15 dex from haidate won't give you 7% more crit at that point, would be closer to 3. Error 4 doesn't matter, considering they would both use the same sets and therefor, have the same WS damage. Same deal with the two second delay, both are hindered by it.

Ya, but I was being nice about it until just now, I was simply just pointing out that I didn't think it was correct, and that someone should look into it.


Except the delay, and lower delay katanas vastly favors stacking more DW then higher delay katanas would, since once you drop your delay below a certain threshold adding a ton more DW won't really affect TP gained per hit.


If that's true then you should also be using AF3+2 body. And from experience I can say if your DEX was not capped with that build your acc would also not be capped, and my set would just pull further ahead.


The amount of time it takes for both sets to get to 100 TP would be different, and therefor WS frequency would be different, and one set would suffer more from the delay then the other.

Well then you take the time to do the math, or get the *** out. Because you proved nothing, you stated incorrect things with nothing to back it.

Except the burden of proof is on you.

But guys, he actually doesn't care about any of this! He just thought we should know how he feels.

Messed up in my previous post, Error 4 was the low WS damage.

By using low WS damage, you were pushing things in your sets favor, because your set does more white damage, and that pushes your set further into the lead. By using higher WS numbers, we find that your set isn't so far ahead, because they both have the same WS damage, while yours has higher white damage.

\EDIT:::
And I dunno if you guys noticed or not, but lets be real for a minute here, for the example the person above posted, I'm actually right.

Kaerin, nobody gives a *** unless you are actually going to demonstrate your statements that have been continuously shown be be incorrect.

If you "don't care", get out.

This is wrong. It's easier to cap ACC than it is to cap dDEX. Also, if you're not acc capped on DCs, then you just need to pack it up and go home.

If you really think you can cap acc without auto capping dDEX, take your dumb *** back to abyssea then. And I'm aware of what going below 180 delay does.

As far as the TP/WS split damage, the Koga+2 set makes up for that because it does more damage in the TP phase.

Nobody cares that you're wrong about which set is the best to TP in?
I thought that was what this thread is all about! Oh well, guess I'll just leave with the knowledge that I was right.



Here, I'll post it again in case you missed it the first time through and since I'm done proving you all wrong and leaving.


Except your set doesn't really have any accuracy in it. It's all from dex and base skill. Oh wait, rancor collar adds 6. In my experience, the only time you can't easily cap dDEX is when you need to be adding a bunch of accuracy, but then I'm a mithra, so that might have something to do with it.

So much anger in this last page... I'll flip a table for you guys if it helps you relax

You proved nothing.

All you've said is that you think you should be auto capped on crit rate, which isn't the case.

You can't even show me how you get 2600 WS damage.

Can someone please just use the *** spreadsheet :|
I don't have it downloaded and Motenten's google docs thing is down atm.

All right then, how much DEX are you TPing in?

+dontsuck

Anyway, really done now. See ya ( '-')/ Have fun spreading your misinformation and also not even saying I'm wrong anymore.

Mithra NIN is like 100 base DEX.

You're not doing 2600 average.

This is not the question I asked. And it's 98 base dex. I asked for your total, in your TP set.

Do I really have to stalk you guys every day and keep you guys in line? It's well within your abilities to correct someone without resorting to blatant insults.

Also, my friend who melees on WHM ... in minimal acc+ gear ... caps accuracy on DCs in Dynamis.

If you have "experience" not capping accuracy, then you have experience sucking worse than a melee whm.