NIN TP Set/s

As for byakkos vs af2+2, as haste gets reasonably higher the benefit of af2+2 degrades substantially.

If you assume a tp set using Suppa and Af3+2 head for DW you need 64% haste to reach the delay cap. If you add in AF1+1 body you need 60% and if you add in AF2+2 you need 55% haste. If you duo/solo dynamis we can assume a few things A. You're offhanding oynos for haste and B you're using haste samba so thats atleast 20% there. If you really have friends and have a bard (usually I do so this seems like something relevant to the discussion since he could have too. 10.5+3(4) and 6.25+3(4) is what every brd can give you without using marcato or G.horn. () values are with langeleik or G.horn with +3. 22.75% haste from brd + 20% haste/samba even if you dont go all out with DW gear then you need 22-23% haste from gear without using af1+1 body/af2+2 legs. Using Marcato would be equivalent to haste samba so I did not feel obligated to mention it, also haste samba is assumed to be from sub job not main job merited 5/5.

If you dont have a brd yes you can pretty much forget it, but as much as you spammed the whole DW wagon, it should be pointed out that everything is situational and heavily dependent on external haste sources.

Point being: If you want to make sure you 'stop spreading misinformation' you shouldnt neglect mentioning what happens as haste increases.

And the set I posted switched with AF1+1 body usually caps my dDEX and my acc on lame content like dynamis, and since having capped crit has been proven to be better then 18% crit rate with af2+2 pants, I guess I'm right.

Earlier in the thread, with just haste, it was shown that 7% DW increases damage less then 9%.

3% QA is about a 9% damage increase, 3% TA is about a 6% damage increase, and 3% DA is about a 3% damage increase, add them together and you get about an 18% damage increase, granted diminishing returns and all, but even if it's cut in half, thaumus still wins based only on the extra attacks. This doesn't even take into effect the 5STP which was shown to reduce attack rounds needed to get to 100 TP by 1 earlier in the thread either.

Why can't you just admit when you're wrong?

95 > 75 + (482-X)*0.5 +4

Using Katana Merits + 138 Dex from your set, and no other contributions from gear whatsoever.

To not cap accuracy on DCs (LV97) in Dynamis, they'd need over 450 evasion.

Bukhis, a level 101 NM, has 430.

And I'm sure THF mobs are way above Bukhis's evasion even 4 levels under him? I don't quite know how to respond to this because of the bukhis comment, why don't you list evasion for mobs we're actually talking about?

What THF mobs are you fighting? The only nightmare mobs with significant evasion bonus are Nightmare Ravens.

If you're fighting something else (Beastmen), then you're doing Dynamis wrong in the first place.

I'm just telling you. DCs in Dynamis don't have >450 evasion.

Estimates I have for DC evasion (not named Nightmare Raven) ~410.

In other words, you need to stop doing this:

DC THF mobs would have over 450 evasion, and according to you birds also do, and some of the other jobs might as well. Also: Who the hell does dynamis anymore? There's better/faster/more fun ways to make gil then soloing dynamis on a weird job like NIN. If we're gonna talk about useless and dynamis in the same sentence, lets talk about not bandwagoning on BST and soloing dynamis, or farming ADL with a small group for gil.


EDIT: I didn't eyeball anything, the only number I ever gave was 2600 for a blade:hi average on shitty dynamis mobs, which is what I use to parse at when I bothered to do it with a few friends. I simply pointed out that you guys were probably wrong about AF2+2 pants being better then the old sets if you were not using shinobi ring, and someone did the math, and it turned out I was correct as long as the byakko set caps dDEX or either gives you an increase to your hit rate. I dunno why you're getting so upset about it, it's just math.

QA 3% of the time TA .97(6%) of the time DA (1-.3-.97(.06)(26%). Is what it would make the totals being compared asuming i read the sets completely so the average hits per round with your set will be 1.443468 attacks per round compared to theirs at:
.3 TA .23 DA which is 1.2831 attacks per round.
1.443468/1.2831 = 1.124984802 = ~12.5% increase in attacks per round, not necessarily total damage.

Everyone.

Also we're discussing the job in the context of what it's good for.
No one takes NIN to ADL.

To be honest, I have no idea which set is better, nor do I care. I never claimed the superiority of any set, I only pointed out where you failed to prove things, and where you were making innacurate or unsubstantiated statements.

What do I have a problem with? I have a problem with you refusing to do the work to prove what you're saying. If you think you're right, step up to the *** plate and prove it.

Don't just say what you think the numbers will work out to, PROVE IT.

Since I never claimed anything about the superiority of any set, you can't claim that I just am "afraid to admit that I'm wrong."

12.5% is a bigger damage increase then 9%, and that was 7% DW that was shown to be a 9% increase, we're talking about 5% DW vs that 12.5% from Thaumas.

I corrected the other guys math, that totally counts as doing it.

EDIT::: Anyway, tired, don't care, maybe I will care again in an hour and come back, we'll see!

It's 12.5% increase in attacks per round, not total damage.

A 12.5% increase in attacks is a 12.5% increase in white damage, which is a 12.5% increase in TP gain, which means it's a 12.5% increase in WS frequency which means it's a 12.5% increase in WS damage.

which means it's a 12.5% increase in damage.

707/393 = 1.7990 cRatio

14 fSTR, capped so you can stop bitching. 69/63 base damages katanas.

15% dDEX crit, 5% base, 5% rancor, 5% merits = 30% crit rate. 30% ODD for your Hi.

1.219 hits per round average.

2K average WS. 2600 isn't average, no matter what you say.

69*(1.7990*(1-.3)+(1+1.7990)*.3*1.09) * (1.3) = 195.058
63*(1.7990*(1-.3)+(1+1.7990)*.3*1.09) = 136.997

(195.058*1.219)+(136.997*1.219) = 404.756


69*(1.7990*(1-.19)+(1+1.7990)*.19*1.05) * (1.3) = 180.797
63*(1.7990*(1-.19)+(1+1.7990)*.19*1.05) = 126.981

(180.797*1.219)+(126.981*1.219) = 375.164



205*(1-.4) = 123.7 delay
176*(1-.35) = 113.8 delay, even lowered it to 35% haste so you can stop bitching.

404.756/(123.7/60) = 196.325
375.164/(113.8/60) = 197.802

9.8 TP return from WS. 90.2 required to WS, set one 4.8 TP per hit, set two 4.4.

90.2/4.8/2/1.219 = 7.708 rounds average
90.2/4.4/2/1.219 = 8.409 rounds average

7.708*123.7+120 = 1073.480 added your 2 second WS delay, so stop bitching

8.409*113.8+120 = 1076.944

404.756 * 7.708 + 2000 = 5119.859
375.164 * 8.409 + 2000 = 5154.754

5119.859/(1073.480/60) = 286.164 DPS.
5154.754/(1076.944/60) = 287.188 DPS.

That's best case scenario for your haidate, and no shinobi ring for koga+2. Now get out.

12.5% increase in attacks and +5 STP also means -1 or -2 attack rounds per 100 TP compared to gaining 9% extra attacks for less TP generation.

What I'm understanding is that you can't actually prove it, and just want to continue to say that you're right.

I'm a math major, so I'm not easy to convince without good proof, and I'm not convinced that your "corrections" were accurate at all, and you left a lot to prove in the comments you did make.

Then you make outrageous claims like it being easier to cap dDEX than Accuracy. Against your standard 410 evasion dynamis mob, you're capped on accuracy naked even if I delete 2/3 of your DEX.

Then you wonder why no one takes you seriously?

tl;dr If you're going to make a claim the differs from convention, back it the *** up and maybe people will listen to you.

Act like an ***, and people will treat you (and your claims) like this:



It's one thing to come in and say, "hey guys, I think that you may be wrong.

here's the set I'm proposing, and here are the numbers to back up my claim."

Instead, you come in here on your high *** horse:

"You guys are wrong. I'm right, but I don't have to prove it, because I'm better than that."

And you expect a good reception? Get *** real.

^ Get it gurl~

what the *** happened to this thread? >.>





i mean really...


what?

ADDITIONALLY, your claims are in the form of:

"This gets an additional attack per round, so it's better."
"This takes fewer hits to 100TP, so it's better."
"This increases critical hit rate by X, so it's better."

You can't make comparisons that way. Sit down, do the *** math, and translate it into damage per second. You can only compare the final quantitative results. You're just stating changes in the inputs to the DPS formulae, and choosing to speculate on the form of the output.

I'll reiterate. I have no *** clue if you're right or not. I don't care. It's your attitude, and acting like you're above the burden of proof that, to be quite honest, should have already earned you a topicban.

You've done nothing to encourage positive or intelligent discussion, and instead seem to be content to just try to piss people off with your misplaced arrogance in your own unsubstantiated claims.

Can't/to lazy is the correct reasoning.


Can you count?
My corrections were pretty simple.
4+7+4+6+15 = 36, and since haste is less useful then advertised I pointed out that he didn't have 36% haste.

I also gave a real WS average, and pointed out that his set with a real WS average was only a 3.8% increase, and that 7% crit rate and 4% crit damage (combined with a 30% total crit rate) would beat that 3.8% damage increase. Even if pDIF is capped at 2 because your attack is capped, crit's would change it to 3, and gaining 7% of them is going to net you at least a 3.5% damage increase. Combined with the slightly over 1% damage increase from crit damage +4% and you get a number bigger than 3.8.


And using my set my dDEX is also capped, I fail to see your point!


I don't wonder at all, and I don't care, it's obvious to me you have a stick up your butt. I was simply pointing out that you guys could be wrong and I didn't feel like proving it. Why you find that offensive is is just crazy.

You're the one acting like an ***, I simply said I didn't feel like doing it in my first post, if it's that important to you or someone else, which I figured it would be, let them do it, I'm not here because I care, I'm here because you're fighting with me and acting like a jackass.

If you can't interpret how this destroys the claim that "accuracy is harder to cap than dDEX" then I don't know what to tell you.

Using my standard set both are capped. Making both just as easy.


And here's my original post, I'm not attacking anyone or insulting anyone, just pointing out that I think you guys might be wrong, you're the one that instantly started attacking me.

EDIT:: Well not 'you' specifically, you came along after other people. But same thing, I only responded back with hatred, never started it, never gave a ***.

your first post said nothing about being too lazy. in fact, you never mentioned it until your post prior to this one.

Actually you admitted you can't

If "I'm going to keep telling you you're wrong, but I refuse to for whatever reason substantiate my claims" isn't worthy of a topicban, I'm not really sure what is. That's dolled-up trolling and nothing more.

This was my second post. Made about a minute or two after the first, didn't check the times, but it was pretty fast. Maybe you should actually read what I say?

@minjo, I did prove it by fixing other peoples math, and I posted that math several times. Bringing up discussion about something is suddenly topicban worthy? Simply because I didn't want to spend 5 hours figuring out how to math something out to post it? You can't use common sense to look at stuff and realize they're about equal and one might pull ahead and bring it up for discussion because the math was never posted earlier stating why/when 1 set is better than another? Wow, that would be something.

thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


cept it seemed like Anye was taking his side.

You'd think with as sure of yourself as you are, with this many people telling you you were wrong, you'd actually be motivated to spit up some actual proof, if for no other reason, than to slap them across the face with it.