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Japan Earthquake/Tsunami
Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-14 22:11:01
Caitsith.Taazy said: Quote: 0303: Radiation is 400 times the annual legal limit near Fukushima's reactor 3, the Kyodo news agency reports Whose limit? Which one? There are only dozens that vary rediculous amounts. How close? And how long is it taking to get that much?
Basically that little news flash says nothing
Caitsith.Taazy
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By Caitsith.Taazy 2011-03-14 22:12:05
Quote: 0306: Winds over the stricken nuclear plant are blowing slowly towards the Kanto region, which includes Tokyo, Reuters reports.
Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-03-14 22:14:48
Asura.Catastrophe said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Probably the clearest we can get--found at http://mitnse.com/2011/03/15/damage-to-fukushima-daiichi-2-world-nuclear-news/ (Props to Jaerik for the mitnse link):
Damage to Fukushima Daiichi 2 [World Nuclear News]
Posted on March 15, 2011 by mitnse
Loud noises were heard at Fukushima Daiichi 2 at 6.10am this morning. A major component beneath the reactor may be damaged.
Confirmation of loud sounds this morning came from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA). It noted that “the suppression chamber may be damaged.” It is not clear that the sounds were explosions.
Also known as the torus, this large doughnut-shaped structure sits in the centre of the reactor building at a lower level than the reactor. It contains a very large body of water to which steam can be directed in emergency situations. The steam then condenses and reduces pressure in the reactor system.
The pressure in the pool was seen to decrease from three atmospheres to one atmosphere after the noise, suggesting possible damage. Radiation levels on the edge of the plant compound briefly spiked at 8217 microsieverts per hour but later fell to about a third that.
A close watch is being kept on the radiation levels to ascertain the status of containment. As a precaution Tokyo Electric Power Company has evacuated all non-essential personnel from the unit. The company’s engineers continue to pump seawater into the reactor pressure vessel, in an effort to cool it.
Prime minister Naoto Kan has requested that everyone withdraw from the ten kilometer evacuation zone around the nuclear power plant and that people that stay within remain indoors. He said his advice related to the overall picture of safety developments at Fukushima Daiichi, rather than those at any individual reactor unit.
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Possible_damage_at_Fukushima_Daiichi_2_1503111.html
That would be your short lived radionuclides.
I figured.
You know, after all this has cooled down (literally! teehee i so punny), the people responsible for the stability of the reactors--both in engineering AND in working virtually NON-STOP to keep it all from going kablooie--ought to get serious, serious props.
/salute
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Caitsith.Taazy
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By Caitsith.Taazy 2011-03-14 22:18:19
In the news conference, it was stated that the reading at reactor No 1 was 400 milisieverts, No4 100 milisieverts, No 2 and 3 30 milisieverts
Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-14 22:20:30
Ragnarok.Anye said: Asura.Catastrophe said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Probably the clearest we can get--found at http://mitnse.com/2011/03/15/damage-to-fukushima-daiichi-2-world-nuclear-news/ (Props to Jaerik for the mitnse link): [h1]Damage to Fukushima Daiichi 2 [World Nuclear News][/h1] Posted on March 15, 2011 by mitnse Loud noises were heard at Fukushima Daiichi 2 at 6.10am this morning. A major component beneath the reactor may be damaged. Confirmation of loud sounds this morning came from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA). It noted that “the suppression chamber may be damaged.” It is not clear that the sounds were explosions. Also known as the torus, this large doughnut-shaped structure sits in the centre of the reactor building at a lower level than the reactor. It contains a very large body of water to which steam can be directed in emergency situations. The steam then condenses and reduces pressure in the reactor system. The pressure in the pool was seen to decrease from three atmospheres to one atmosphere after the noise, suggesting possible damage. Radiation levels on the edge of the plant compound briefly spiked at 8217 microsieverts per hour but later fell to about a third that. A close watch is being kept on the radiation levels to ascertain the status of containment. As a precaution Tokyo Electric Power Company has evacuated all non-essential personnel from the unit. The company’s engineers continue to pump seawater into the reactor pressure vessel, in an effort to cool it. Prime minister Naoto Kan has requested that everyone withdraw from the ten kilometer evacuation zone around the nuclear power plant and that people that stay within remain indoors. He said his advice related to the overall picture of safety developments at Fukushima Daiichi, rather than those at any individual reactor unit. http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Possible_damage_at_Fukushima_Daiichi_2_1503111.html That would be your short lived radionuclides. I figured.
You know, after all this has cooled down (literally! teehee i so punny), the people responsible for the stability of the reactors--both in engineering AND in working virtually NON-STOP to keep it all from going kablooie--ought to get serious, serious props.
/salute They are working hard... but from the sounds of it they made some poor decisions too
Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-03-14 22:22:48
Bahamut.Dasva said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Asura.Catastrophe said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Probably the clearest we can get--found at http://mitnse.com/2011/03/15/damage-to-fukushima-daiichi-2-world-nuclear-news/ (Props to Jaerik for the mitnse link): Damage to Fukushima Daiichi 2 [World Nuclear News] Posted on March 15, 2011 by mitnse Loud noises were heard at Fukushima Daiichi 2 at 6.10am this morning. A major component beneath the reactor may be damaged. Confirmation of loud sounds this morning came from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA). It noted that “the suppression chamber may be damaged.” It is not clear that the sounds were explosions. Also known as the torus, this large doughnut-shaped structure sits in the centre of the reactor building at a lower level than the reactor. It contains a very large body of water to which steam can be directed in emergency situations. The steam then condenses and reduces pressure in the reactor system. The pressure in the pool was seen to decrease from three atmospheres to one atmosphere after the noise, suggesting possible damage. Radiation levels on the edge of the plant compound briefly spiked at 8217 microsieverts per hour but later fell to about a third that. A close watch is being kept on the radiation levels to ascertain the status of containment. As a precaution Tokyo Electric Power Company has evacuated all non-essential personnel from the unit. The company’s engineers continue to pump seawater into the reactor pressure vessel, in an effort to cool it. Prime minister Naoto Kan has requested that everyone withdraw from the ten kilometer evacuation zone around the nuclear power plant and that people that stay within remain indoors. He said his advice related to the overall picture of safety developments at Fukushima Daiichi, rather than those at any individual reactor unit. http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Possible_damage_at_Fukushima_Daiichi_2_1503111.html That would be your short lived radionuclides. I figured.
You know, after all this has cooled down (literally! teehee i so punny), the people responsible for the stability of the reactors--both in engineering AND in working virtually NON-STOP to keep it all from going kablooie--ought to get serious, serious props.
/salute They are working hard... but from the sounds of it they made some poor decisions too Not to come off as a douche, but I'd like to see ANYONE criticizing them do better. o_o Hard decisions, not poor.
Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-14 22:25:38
Ragnarok.Anye said: Not to come off as a douche, but I'd like to see ANYONE criticizing them do better. o_o Hard decisions, not poor. .
Just saying the UV navy has never had a nuclear accident. Ever. And we push that ***to the max
Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek
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By Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek 2011-03-14 22:26:17
Caitsith.Taazy said: In the news conference, it was stated that the reading at reactor No 1 was 400 milisieverts, No4 100 milisieverts, No 2 and 3 30 milisieverts 400mSv = 40REM? is that right? I forget
Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek
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By Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek 2011-03-14 22:31:58
Asura.Catastrophe said: Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek said: Caitsith.Taazy said: In the news conference, it was stated that the reading at reactor No 1 was 400 milisieverts, No4 100 milisieverts, No 2 and 3 30 milisieverts 400mSv = 40REM? is that right? I forget
0.877 REM = .00877 Sieverts
So....
uhhh...
I hate that there isn't a standard that is REM :| So... yes ish?
Either way, .4 SV is decent, but not significant
Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-03-14 22:33:24
Bahamut.Dasva said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Not to come off as a douche, but I'd like to see ANYONE criticizing them do better. o_o Hard decisions, not poor. .
Just saying the UV navy has never had a nuclear accident. Ever. And we push that ***to the max Given the fact that
1. The 9.0 earthquake knocked out the external power supply
2. The resultant tsunami knocked out the backup diesel power generators
3. The 8-hour reserve battery power ran out, forcing them to resort to other methods of cooling the rods....
mitnse said: One of the fundamental tenets of nuclear power plant design is “Defense in Depth.” This approach leads engineers to design a plant that can withstand severe catastrophes, even when several systems fail. A large tsunami that disables all the diesel generators at once is such a scenario, but the tsunami of March 11th was beyond all expectations. To mitigate such an event, engineers designed an extra line of defense by putting everything into the containment structure (see above), that is designed to contain everything inside the structure.
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Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-03-14 22:34:08
I'm having a hard time listening to CNN.
They've got anchors saying the government has been "inconsistent" in its reports, and is thus unreliable. As proof, they say the government reported things were under control yesterday, but then they just had a news conference about a new explosion where they said the situation may have gotten worse!
I'm left wondering what, precisely, they would prefer.
Some douche with a giant touchscreen then proceeded to finger-paint a circle around a Google Maps picture of entirely the wrong reactor, the wrong containment level on a reactor diagram, and incorrectly reported the evacuation area had been "increased" to 20km when it's already been there for days.
Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-14 22:40:23
Ragnarok.Anye said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Not to come off as a douche, but I'd like to see ANYONE criticizing them do better. o_o Hard decisions, not poor. . Just saying the UV navy has never had a nuclear accident. Ever. And we push that ***to the max Given the fact that
1. The 9.0 earthquake knocked out the external power supply
2. The resultant tsunami knocked out the backup diesel power generators
3. The 8-hour reserve battery power ran out, forcing them to resort to other methods of cooling the rods....
Sure it could've went worse... it could've went better. In all reality you should have alot of alternatives. Especially for land based reactors. We are trained and operate like major casualities that have never happened could. Because if they did bad ***can happen. And it seemed at times they placed potential bad PR and slight health risks over reactor safety
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By Titan.Prefalin 2011-03-14 22:40:46
*sips monster*
reminds me of how kids in high school when they take journalism they get their friends out of class day by day to do interviews/pictures...kinda...journalism how fun...
Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-14 22:41:30
Asura.Catastrophe said: Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek said: Asura.Catastrophe said: Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek said: Caitsith.Taazy said: In the news conference, it was stated that the reading at reactor No 1 was 400 milisieverts, No4 100 milisieverts, No 2 and 3 30 milisieverts 400mSv = 40REM? is that right? I forget 0.877 REM = .00877 Sieverts So.... uhhh... I hate that there isn't a standard that is REM :| So... yes ish? about 40 REM yes Still need it as a rate to really tell us anything
Ramuh.Thayil
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By Ramuh.Thayil 2011-03-14 22:42:21
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: I'm having a hard time listening to CNN.
They've got anchors saying the government has been "inconsistent" in its reports, and is thus unreliable. As proof, they say the government reported things were under control yesterday, but then they just had a news conference about a new explosion where they said the situation may have gotten worse!
I'm left wondering what, precisely, they would prefer.
Some douche with a giant touchscreen then proceeded to finger-paint a circle around a Google Maps picture of entirely the wrong reactor, the wrong containment level on a reactor diagram, and incorrectly reported the evacuation area had been "increased" to 20km when it's already been there for days.
CNN is terrible. The only reliable mainstream news sources left are the BBC and Al Jazeera.
Caitsith.Taazy
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By Caitsith.Taazy 2011-03-14 22:43:35
Quote: 0337: A low level radioactive wind could reach Tokyo in 10 hours, Reuters is quoting the French embassy in the Japanese capital as saying.
Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-03-14 22:45:56
CNN: "They're giving us numbers about radiation but they're meaningless without further information, and more experts on-hand to tell us what they actually mean."
If only there were an entire country of nuclear engineers back home that they could consult!
Unfortunately, they seem to have spent all of their budget on slick chrome-plated computer transition graphics proclaiming nuclear armageddon, and making sure Anderson Cooper's hair is adequately shiny while he climbs over tsunami debris.
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Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-03-14 22:48:15
Bahamut.Dasva said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Not to come off as a douche, but I'd like to see ANYONE criticizing them do better. o_o Hard decisions, not poor. . Just saying the UV navy has never had a nuclear accident. Ever. And we push that ***to the max Given the fact that
1. The 9.0 earthquake knocked out the external power supply
2. The resultant tsunami knocked out the backup diesel power generators
3. The 8-hour reserve battery power ran out, forcing them to resort to other methods of cooling the rods....
Sure it could've went worse... it could've went better. In all reality you should have alot of alternatives. Especially for land based reactors. mitnse said: One of the fundamental tenets of nuclear power plant design is “ Defense in Depth.” This approach leads engineers to design a plant that can withstand severe catastrophes, even when several systems fail. A large tsunami that disables all the diesel generators at once is such a scenario, but the tsunami of March 11th was beyond all expectations. To mitigate such an event, engineers designed an extra line of defense by putting everything into the containment structure (see above), that is designed to contain everything inside the structure.Bahamut.Dasva said: And it seemed at times they placed potential bad PR and slight health risks over reactor safety mitnse said: As mentioned previously, steam and other gases are vented. Some of these gases are radioactive fission products, but they exist in small quantities. Therefore, when the operators started venting the system, some radioactive gases were released to the environment in a controlled manner (ie in small quantities through filters and scrubbers). While some of these gases are radioactive, they did not pose a significant risk to public safety to even the workers on site. This procedure is justified as its consequences are very low, especially when compared to the potential consequences of not venting and risking the containment structures’ integrity.
Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-03-14 22:49:30
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: CNN: "They're giving us numbers about radiation but they're meaningless without further information, and more experts on-hand to tell us what they actually mean."
If only there were an entire country of nuclear engineers back home that they could consult!
Unfortunately, they seem to have spent all of their budget on slick chrome-plated computer transition graphics proclaiming nuclear armageddon, and making sure Anderson Cooper's hair is adequately shiny while he climbs over tsunami debris. lol'd <3
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By Titan.Prefalin 2011-03-14 22:50:17
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: CNN: "They're giving us numbers about radiation but they're meaningless without further information, and more experts on-hand to tell us what they actually mean."
If only there were an entire country of nuclear engineers back home that they could consult!
Unfortunately, they seem to have spent all of their budget on slick chrome-plated computer transition graphics proclaiming nuclear armageddon, and making sure Anderson Cooper's hair is adequately shiny while he climbs over tsunami debris. sad thing is my politics teacher makes us use them for our news journal articles along with lolNPR...
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-03-14 22:51:58
I anticipate the worst thing that will actually come out of this Fukushima meltdown stuff, is more leverage to keep America dependent on Fossil Fuels. Probably why all the news here is screaming Armageddon, while BBC has had 3 or 4 Nuclear Physicists on saying "eh, no big deal, dun worry about it 'til there's something to worry about."
Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-03-14 22:52:21
Titan.Prefalin said: sad thing is my politics teacher makes us use them for our news journal articles along with lolNPR... In their defense, at least they're reporting what tries to be straight-up news, even if they're coming up short.
Fox and MSNBC seem to already be neck-deep in figuring out how the whole thing is the Republicans' or Democrats' fault.
Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek
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By Quetzalcoatl.Zeldageek 2011-03-14 22:52:28
I was always under the assumption that /hr was implied when giving radiation levels,unless otherwise noted.
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