Incoming PLD Adjustments

Neo, when you mention hate cap, if they raised hate cap as a whole yes that would not help pld, but I still dont understand why they dont just give pld's increased hate.

I hate to bring up other games but have you ever played WoW? Hate has no cap, and any job that is a tank class can generate 200%+ more hate then other jobs. you still get tanks losing hate but every tank feels like a tank. I wish SE could just pay attention to mechanics in other successful franchises

no one likes my curaja idea? ; ;

Just a bit of a refresher for some PLDs on hate. Hate caps at 1,000 CE and 1,000 VE. CE standing for cummulative enmity and VE for volatile enmity. Damage, enfeebling, spells, etc all cause VE and CE, generally more CE than VE. Job abilities such as provoke, counterstance, boost, etc generally cause more CE than VE rates. VE decays much faster than CE, and the major 3 ways to lose CE are being hit, losing an utsusemi shadow (Blink shadows of all forms do not count), and being hit by an enfeeble (Even if it's resisted)

In the case of PLD today, we still generate VE/CE amazingly fast, the problem is so does everyone else, they survive well enough, and they do more damage. We don't need anymore defense, we don't need ways of generating hate faster. PLD is still a good tank (in the very strict sense of the word). The problem lies within the fact EVERYONE can cap CE/VE and they provide more perks WHILE doing so.

Even if PLD's VE/CE values were 500 higher than everyone else, you still would have the PLD tank on MNK. Simply because the MNK could do the same job, get the same result, but also contribute damage.

Sadly unless PLD gets an adjustment to make their defense absolutely broken and then SE tailors mobs around them, their options are limited. Removing all the defensive buffs that allow DDs to tank would cause a downright mob I'm sure.

I think raising the hate cap only for pld would be an unnatural advantage. I still don't know that it would benefit the party to have a pld.

The reality is that pld is designed as a defensive job, and there is no reason to play defensively in ffxi currently. With Ochain or Aegis and AF3 we have some amazing potential, but it is all wasted.

I realize that people don't want their favorite DD to die in a couple hits, but at the same time everyone is complaining about ffxi being in easy mode lately. There are no negative consequences for going all out in ffxi. All people do it his their offensive JA's whenever the timer is up and ws when they have 100 tp. If mobs started posing a threat to DD and mages, the game would require a bit more skill and understanding. I'm sure people would complain that it will make fights take longer, but an extra minute or two on an NM is not going to ruin your afternoon.

Some sort of faster hate decay would also be needed, or one that doesn't favor damage quite as much. Right now a monk is gonna cap hate even if they afk for 2 minutes. I think the correct balance could be found that would reward some level of defensive play while not entirely gimping all melee.

Never played WoW. I supposed that would be a potential fix. However SE stated they were not going to up the hate cap, as it would break to much other stuff (i.e. too much work on their part). Potentially raising cap for Pld only may be effective, or decreasing enmity deterioration rate. However I suspect the same mechanics problems would arise.

I was just saying that assuming pld will be needed without it being overhauled is naive. that's all.

I wish that Pld could be THE tank I like having a serious tank that has everything it needs to be the role. Im supportive of it and just more upset SE cannot seem to make it the job it is supposed to be.

Needed is subjective. You don't "need" a whm on any of the new content, but it's superior at it's job and makes a lot of the fights easier.

Pld makes a lot of the newer content easier, and ofcourse it's possible to do it without a Pld (and some may prefer), however the more lvl difference you introduce, more AoE/defense/etc you introduce, the more practical Pld becomes in managing the mob's attention.

And as I already said, enmity and survivability are just fine on those higher level things, as melees aren't doing ***tons of damage.

Pld isn't broken on the things you should actually bring Pld for, people just don't understand the difference.

And please people, stop lecturing me/anyone about "when to bring pld, and pld is a crutch", it's insulting to imply we don't know when it's useful and applicable. And again, that's not the point of the thread.

I wish that Pld could be THE tank I like having a serious tank that has everything it needs to be the role. Im supportive of it and just more upset SE cannot seem to make it the job it is supposed to be.

Cover stance? pld enters cover mode so that no matter who stands behind him/her they are protected.

Kyokaku, what atmas are you using?

If SE continues to add in some high level NMs that really need a skilled ninja or pld that would be great. I remain skeptical, yet hopeful that they do. I still think the defensive abilities of other jobs should be scaled back a bit. I'm not asking for monks to get one shotted with counterstance up, but seriously there should be a very noticeable difference between someone with 600 defense and someone with 200 defense. This would only require a little modification to the mobs pdif formula. I can live without any adjustments to enmity if we're fighting high enough level mobs that melee aren't capping attack and acc simultaneously.

And please people, stop lecturing me/anyone about "when to bring pld, and pld is a crutch", it's insulting to imply we don't know when it's useful and applicable. And again, that's not the point of the thread.

But I think that's the problem. You have half the people looking for "fixes" that make Pld necessary all of the time, not just improving it for the times when it's necessary.

That aside, I favor raising mob defense/pdt/mdt, as well as increasing dmg dealt from mob offense. This would lower the usefulness of dd tanks because they couldn't go all out and expect to survive, but holding back wouldn't be conducive to maintaining hate. Add a decrease in the rate at which Plds lose VE and at that point dedicated tanks regain their value for pure hate control and survivability without doing anything game breaking.

@SS/RR/apoc:


I'd like to see the math on that.

25% base crit with capped dDex.

30% crit rate with RR.

30% crit damage with RR.

Base rate with SS/RR/Apoc is 55% crit rate with 30%+20% = 50% + damage from SS/RR.

SS offers 20% boost, 55% of the time.

GH offers 20% boost in crit rate (effecting TP and WS damage greatly), as well as subtleblow/evasion/etc from agility.

Also considering Pld's attack rating is crap most of the time and crit's devalue attack a bit, Pld would benefit more from a higher crit rate (over similar raise in crit damage).

I guess if you need HP SS is nice, but it shouldn't provide you with superior DPS numbers.