|
|
Help with PLD gearsets.
VIP
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Fenrir.Motenten 2011-11-08 15:28:01
Quote: About the magic accuacy. Do we know that the MACC is caclulated at cast time, and not on hit?
Actually, I have no idea. I just figure it doesn't hurt to have the skill/m.acc in place when you cast in case they made it like tier 1 enspells.
Quote: If MACC was caclulated on cast.. could you cast in MND/MACC gear and expect to get more accurate Enlight DMG? <,< Or would it be skill only?
Given the data points on damage, I don't expect mnd to have any effect on it. Therefore I would guess skill/m.acc only.
 Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-11-08 16:05:56
I think they mean when your melee hit lands.
Ragnarok.Martel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2954
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 16:23:21
By on cast, we meant when the cast resolves and you gain the buff. On hit meant calculated when you hit the mob.
Ragnarok.Martel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2954
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 16:27:42
Other spells have weirdness like this.
Enspell II's calculate enhancing skill to DMG when you hit the mob, not when you cast.
Spikes calculate base dmg via int on cast, but check MAB when struck by the mob.
This kinda stuff is why I question this.
If the MACC is on cast, some MACC/skill over the current dmg tier might be worth the INV space. If it's on hit, you'd have TP in skill/MACC+... and no, just no. So that'd save me some space.
I'd rather not carry anything extra if it's not really helping.
 Carbuncle.Grandthief
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2011-11-08 18:14:17
Do you think that it's possible to get less resisted enlights when macc/skill really helped it's acc on the cast?
For example on the higher tier VW stuff (only things I can really think of since I'm usually not paying that much attention to it's actual dmg).
Otherwise, if it's only checking on hits, then skill is really only worth it for the extra initial dmg, since you won't wear much or any of this for tanking.
Would be cool if someone could test that on things that usually resist enlight badly.
Oh and thx a lot Martel once more, for going out there and testing the stuff in order see for yourself and to point out mistakes! Someone should add this formula to BGwiki as well, I guess.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-11-08 18:18:39
100% certain the macc from enlight works like enspell 2 damage and is based one your enhancing skill at the time of swing. That being said, you cast enlight for the accuracy bonus, not for the piss ant little additional effect.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-11-08 18:19:13
I do it for the awesome sound effect.
[+]
Carbuncle.Grandthief
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2011-11-08 18:35:26
100% certain the macc from enlight works like enspell 2 damage and is based one your enhancing skill at the time of swing. That being said, you cast enlight for the accuracy bonus, not for the piss ant little additional effect. o_O Am I missing something here?
I don't see how ~60-20 extra dmg for 40 swings is little dmg compared to 0 extra dmg without enlight..
If enlight get's resisted, of course, but then you won't gain acc much either.
Ragnarok.Martel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2954
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 18:37:55
100% certain the macc from enlight works like enspell 2 damage and is based one your enhancing skill at the time of swing. That being said, you cast enlight for the accuracy bonus, not for the piss ant little additional effect. Not that I have any reason to believe otherwise atm, but what is this certainty based on?
Also, When unresisted I'd hardly call Enlight DMG piss ant. It's a nice addition to your DPS. Although whether it's worth the inv- to gear for it boost the base DMG/ACC by ~5 points is up to the individual.
When it's getting resisted, well, like you said, there's still the acc.
Ragnarok.Martel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2954
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 18:41:20
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »If enlight get's resisted, of course, but then you won't gain acc much either. I very much doubt the acc boost is affected by whether the DMG gets resisted. Kinda backwards. You have to hit the mob before it checks Enlight's MACC, but to hit the mob, it has to check your acc first.
The ACC boost is just based on enlights current base DMG. Whether or not it gets resisted should have no bearing on that boost.
Ragnarok.Martel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2954
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 18:43:36
I'd hate to pop a brew just for that. Maybe try an ascetic's first?
But the basic reasoning there seems sound. Assuming it uses the MACC stat itself and not just skill.
Phoenix.Neosutra
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-11-08 18:46:51
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »100% certain the macc from enlight works like enspell 2 damage and is based one your enhancing skill at the time of swing. That being said, you cast enlight for the accuracy bonus, not for the piss ant little additional effect. o_O Am I missing something here?
I don't see how ~60-20 extra dmg for 40 swings is little dmg compared to 0 extra dmg without enlight..
If enlight gets resisted, of course, but then you won't gain acc much either.
Mostly because I don't use Pld for easy low lvl mobs that don't resist enlight, and thus anything I use Pld for, enlight's actual enspell damage is near worthless.
Obviously if you find a mob that needs a pld tank AND doesn't resist enlight, the added damage is beneficial (I can't think of one). The two are just often mutually exclusive.
Carbuncle.Grandthief
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2011-11-08 18:48:27
The ACC boost is just based on enlights current base DMG. Whether or not it gets resisted should have no bearing on that boost. Well, on wiki it says that the "accuracy bonus which mimics the damage dealt by the additional effect by a 1:1 ratio". Which implies that the actual dmg that is dealt is the acc bonus you are gaining.
Therefore, I would assume that when you get resists and deal little to no dmg, that will also be your acc bonus received (little to nothing).
However, this wouldn't be the first time that wiki is wrong but that's what I'm working with currently.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4189
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-11-08 18:51:11
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »If enlight get's resisted, of course, but then you won't gain acc much either. I very much doubt the acc boost is affected by whether the DMG gets resisted. Kinda backwards. You have to hit the mob before it checks Enlight's MACC, but to hit the mob, it has to check your acc first.
The ACC boost is just based on enlights current base DMG. Whether or not it gets resisted should have no bearing on that boost.
Does it actually change your accuracy via the /check command on mobs?
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »The ACC boost is just based on enlights current base DMG. Whether or not it gets resisted should have no bearing on that boost. Well, on wiki it says that the "accuracy bonus which mimics the damage dealt by the additional effect by a 1:1 ratio". Which implies that the actual dmg that is dealt is the acc bonus you are gaining.
Therefore, I would assume that when you get resists and deal little to no dmg, that will also be your acc bonus received (little to nothing).
However, this wouldn't be the first time that wiki is wrong but that's what I'm working with currently.
Depends on how you read in to the statement. There is no mention of how it reacts to resists. It is possible that it could do that but as martel said, the way the game checks information, it would make little sense for it to work that way. It should probably read "accuracy bonus which mimics the unresisted damage dealt by the additional effect by a 1:1 ratio".
Carbuncle.Grandthief
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2011-11-08 18:54:08
Mostly because I don't use Pld for easy low lvl mobs that don't resist enlight, and thus anything I use Pld for, enlight's actual enspell damage is near worthless.
Obviously if you find a mob that needs a pld tank AND doesn't resist enlight, the added damage is beneficial (I can't think of one). The two are just often mutually exclusive. Of course you are right with that and for the situations you get resists. I merely didn't like the sound of generalizing rather sweet dmg (given it's actually present).
That's why I'd like to see if you can, in fact, lower the chances of getting resists for said fights you normally bring a PLD to.
Carbuncle.Grandthief
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2011-11-08 19:05:06
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »Depends on how you read in to the statement. There is no mention of how it reacts to resists. It is possible that it could do that but as martel said, the way the game checks information, it would make little sense for it to work that way. It should probably read "accuracy bonus which mimics the unresisted damage dealt by the additional effect by a 1:1 ratio". I honestly don't know. As it stands both possibilities are plain speculation anyway.
I wouldn't think that you get the full acc bonus of 60+ for a resisted enlight, since this spell is intended to be useless against certain targets that resist the hell out of it. So, if your useless spell doesn't deal dmg, you won't get an acc bonus either, since the mob resists it.
Also, I've no idea how the game checks the acc gain from it but it could be as simple it says, if the enspell deals 10 extra dmg, this value will be added to your overall acc and then compared to the mob's evasion.
Anyway, that all sounds logical to me but maybe not to everyone else and maybe that's also not how SE designed it.
 Fenrir.Demomo
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Fenrir.Demomo 2011-11-08 19:10:10
Honest question, don't mean to be rude, but how the hell do you have inventory to carry a full divine+ set for pld? Making room for enhancing for phalanx swap (even though with fanatics spam I think I cast phalanx once every 3 fights on bad procs) I can see but how can you possibly carry this much extra gear..... for enlight?
Ragnarok.Martel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2954
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 19:43:11
Honest question, don't mean to be rude, but how the hell do you have inventory to carry a full divine+ set for pld? Making room for enhancing for phalanx swap (even though with fanatics spam I think I cast phalanx once every 3 fights on bad procs) I can see but how can you possibly carry this much extra gear..... for enlight?
Currently the highest phalanx tier reachable by PLD is at 329 skill for -29 dmg(Assuming you're not /sch. And why would you be?). The tier after that is at 358 and pld falls short of that goal by 7 skill even with all the enhancing gear you can wear+merits.
I have full enhancing merits. Putting my enhancing skill at 326 before gear. I carry one piece of enhancing gear(the earring). The rest of it stays satchel'd most of the time. Unless I'm soloing and using my own barspells or something.
Fenrir.Demomo
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Fenrir.Demomo 2011-11-08 19:48:40
356 is the highest I've ever come up with for enhancing on pld, leaving it two skill short still but:
base 310
merits 16
torques 7/10 (lights day you would push into higher tier)
Sea cape 5
Earring 3
Gallant+1 pants 10
New belt 5
Ragnarok.Martel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2954
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 20:24:22
Ahh. I didn't think about the colossus torque. I never bothered to get one. And without the new belt it didn't make any difference.
So, a possible -30 one game day a week. Suppose I could pick up a torque. Depending on the situation I might have enough space to pull it all out on lightdays. <,<
even though with fanatics spam I think I cast phalanx once every 3 fights on bad procs)
You should cast it even with fanatics up. It works on spells, en effects and spikes too. Sure, -29~30 dmg isn't much compared to a nuke, but it's not like casting it once every 3 mins is much trouble.
Fenrir.Demomo
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Fenrir.Demomo 2011-11-08 20:27:41
I could be waaaaaaaay off here because I literally know nothing about SCH other than I sub it on my mule, but couldn't they make you stay in the +10 latent for torque full time? (assuming your going to have a sch in the tank party for whatever reason.
Also the lost melee hits when fighting for hate with a mnk while casting phalanx/enlight/etc while you're riding fanatics (I have aegis) seems more detrimental to me than the slight reduction to the otherwise laughable nuke damage vw offers vs aegis.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4189
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-11-08 20:33:16
I could be waaaaaaaay off here because I literally know nothing about SCH other than I sub it on my mule, but couldn't they make you stay in the +10 latent for torque full time? (assuming your going to have a sch in the tank party for whatever reason. Procs on day not weather. Sch gives you weather.
Ragnarok.Martel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2954
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-11-08 20:49:04
It's lightsday latent, not light weather. so I don't think that'll work.
Unless you're already capping acc pre-enlight, it will certainly be worth dropping ~3 seconds of melee time to up your acc by ~60.
As for phalanx, I don't think that ~3 seconds every 3 mins is going to significantly affect your DD output/enmity gain in any situation short of a soul voice zerg. If even then.
btw, it's very strange to suggest using +4 extra inv to get +1 phalanx once a game week, then suggest phalanx isn't worth using in the current main end game content(yes, I know you said with fanatics. But you did say that was most of the time, too.) Particularly when the original issue brought up was inv space.
Fenrir.Demomo
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Fenrir.Demomo 2011-11-08 22:27:38
Oh I don't carry either, although I used to carry an enhancing set for soloing pre pld/dnc pushing out pld/rdm due to native phalanx. Was just pointing out you can get closer than 7 skill.
Stalwarts, bravers and pizza, combined with a decent tp set should put your acc extremely close to capped on almost anything. Pre-dd temps, I could see enlight spam for acc reasons being great.
3 seconds with /war, marches, haste, misers, and possibly tacticians (depending on the need for chaos roll) when you should basically be able to ws every 4 swings... is significant.
Phoenix.Neosutra
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-11-08 22:36:00
Just curious, what are you tanking that you can WS every 4 swings? Kaggen has amnesia up half the fight. Qilin you should be on the adds,(unless you guys actually pld tank Qilin). Pil is Pil lol.
Not being a ***, just curious.
Fenrir.Demomo
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Fenrir.Demomo 2011-11-08 22:39:56
Kaggen yes the amnesia spam is absurdly obnoxious...
Pil wont amnesia you on fanatics anyway so as long as your procs arent horrible it shouldnt matter.
Qilin we use an ochain+rdm for adds and I go mnk.
So basically, Pil, Uptala, Aello, and the eye thing that likes to death me 3 seconds after every pop... The city T4's I tend to not use DD temps anyway as to not massacre them spamming CDC as they're getting more "Difficult" to not accidently zerg while procing....so all of vw (that people actually spam) but 2 mobs?
Phoenix.Neosutra
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-11-08 23:16:18
Meh, I don't really do the old T4s anymore, and been farming mostly Kaggen/Qilin. Haven't had much trouble DD tanking the eye. Pil I spend half my time faced away with his doom glare, then factoring in shield, cuts DD down a bit.
So that really leaves Uptala/Aello I guess. Matter of preference/game interest I suppose.
Fenrir.Demomo
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Fenrir.Demomo 2011-11-08 23:19:13
Lol yeah I forgot about gaze on Pil, but usually its on the mnk unless a bad flank opening goes off while temps are down regardless... I do agree PLD is more of a safety net on most mobs these days.... so DD while you have the chance, I guess.
Looking to make some beneficial changes to my PLD gearsets, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! :)
PLD Cure - Adaman Barbuta - Spell Interrupt-2% Cure Potency+5%
PLD Flash
PLD MDT
PLD TP
|
|
