The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms For A New Age

Charis Tiara +2 Gives +1 forced Critical Hit to Climactic Flourish and adds a 20% damage boost to the forced critical hits. You definitely want this and to stack as much dex as possible. With gear and merits my dex is around 230. I'm looking for more gear that enhances my dex.

Is your set for RS the very same posted a little above, Byrth? Or are there any differences?

Would you mind posting your Rudra's set too, Wormfeeder? I'm convinced about Charis Tiara +2 but I find 230 DEX quite impressive if you're givin up on Horos Tiara +1. Would you pls let me know what you're using?

Totally, because I wasn't asked:

ItemSet 331564

toetapper mantle with WSD+5%, qaaxo leggings C15. 263 DEX (Hume, 15/15 merits), unless my math sucks.

I'm not completely sure about the hands; Buremte gloves with DEX+8 might be better. And I'm too lazy to crunch numbers right now. ;-/

I also suck at using these forums, hence the deleted post above.

Only you get to see the deleted posts.

Edit: Debating which flavor of the month to make. Vajra or Terpsi?

I was going to say both, but since you posted in dnc forum, the only answer is Terpsichore.

And thanks for the set, Skudo... mine is quite similar to yours but with buremte and no wanion

I use the same set as Skudo.

Terpsichore DNC is far better at soloing right now, but when playing collaboratively Vajra THF will always outparse it because the best option is to make a single darkness and have Vajra THF close double darkness with a huge SATA Rudra's. Scoobers and Kramer were doing 50k Rudra's -> 99,999 damage Darknesses when we were killing Largantua. There's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to come back from an instant 150k damage deficit.

A storm of questions concering this setup:

1) This is for when Climactic Flourish is active of course, correct?
2) Second best option for Neck?
3) Second best option for ear2? (I guess brutal?)
4) Second best option for ring? (Epona? Rajas?)
5) Second Best option for Belt? (Windbuffet+1?)
6) Other options for back, during non crits? (my best WSD is 3%, I think atm I still have Atheling for non-acc setups, and either Toetapper or Vespid for acc, iir)
7) Head options for non crits? BiS is probably DEX Uk'uxkaj, second best?

Shifting +1 is another good neck option.
Rajas works, but you might consider even using a Thunder Pearl over Brutal. fTP boosts do very little for Rudra's these days. For the same reason, you might want to even choose Cuchulain's or Warwolf over Windbuffet +1. fTP boosts do very little for Rudra's now.

Your 3% WS damage cape is probably still your best back option. Horos Tiara +1 is pretty good if you don't have a DEX Uk'.

Airy Ring vs NQ Ramuh ring vs Rajas Ring? During climactic of course.
They should be pretty close to each other, with NQ Ramuh probably being slightly better?

Chiner's Belt +1 for waist? Assuming I can get my hands on one.
For the moment I guess I'll use Warwolf or Pipilaka since I already own those. Actually Warwolf, Pipi is either trashed or on mule.

For hands, wouldn't Nilas Gloves be a decent alternative to Buremte (dex+8) and Nomkahpa +1

And for earring you're saying a Pixie Earring/Thunder Pearl will be better than Brutal? Guess Kuwunga would be pretty close to each other, above if you have madrigal up.
Which COUPLE of earring to use when you're at 3000 or above 2750 and want to use something other than Moonshade? (or when you don't have moonshade, still need to remember to swap mine)

For neck and waist I have been using snow belt and snow gorget on rudras. the weapon skill damage and conserve tp +7 on each is nice.

Can you augment Uk'uxkaj Cap.

Here is my set for Rudra's Storm under Climactic Flourish effect.
Some improvements are yet to be done, such as rings +1 instead of NQ, Wanion Belt instead of Pipilaka and Augmented Cape instead of Kayapa. I don't get it why you guys don't use Vanir Boots tho.

ItemSet 331623

With this set and at 3000TP I manage to make around 30.000 against Kamihr Raaz and 21.000 against Incursion 125 mobs.

Do you think i'm somehow inside the average provided i'm no mythic?

Are attack/str completely irrelevant? They do matter less than DEX but I think they do play a consistent role into the final damage.

Vanir vs Qaaxo is 8Dex vs 9Str/15Att/5Acc and could add the lol3STP as well I guess.
If you're not attack capped I'm leaning to think Qaaxo should be at least on par with that 8Dex, no?


@Wormfeeder
Gorget/Belt do not give WSdamage, they increase your TP modifier. Granted that does increase the final damage of course... but on a WS with such a high TPmod I'm leaning to think belt and gorget wouldn't be particularly effective.
And yes, you can augment all 115 WKR drops.

Would dex Buremte be superior to Nomkahpa? I really want to justify my Nomkahpa for more than just BLU, but I know the dex scaling on Rudra's is just disgusting right now.

Also, was a consensus ever reached about TP sets? There's been a lot of discussion about Horos tights with 5/5 saber merits and Horos feet with 5/5 CP. Since I'm horrible at damage calculations, I'm hoping somebody far more competent had the time to work out some good sets.

I've been the most vocal person giving Saber/Horos Tights some credit (and I absolutely stick by it for pre-update), but now I'm starting to doubt myself a bit. The reason isn't for x-hit builds at all (or minor increase in TP for DNC JAs), but because every bit of TP overflow (below 3000, obviously) really seems to help a lot on new and improved Rudra.

Would love to see it mathed our more though, I'm struggling with the post Dec update.

Of course, supposing some great new TP feet ever get released that may instantly change merits. Closed Position Acc/Eva is not terribly important these days, the merit is good primarily because of how it works in conjunction with Horos feet. If say, Empy reforge feet ended up having awesome stats (beating Horos), that might instantly cause a shift in merits away from CP.


A non-DEX Uk' probably still beats Horos Tiara +1, right? Assuming you're not forcing guaranteed crit (i.e. Climactic w/ Charis+2), I'd think the crit rate +3% outweighs other stats over time. And base DEX is still quite solid on Uk', only 2 lower than Horos+1.

My Uk' is currently STR augment (V.Smite, Stringing Pummel, generally helpful on all WS anyway even if not a WS mod, etc.) and I'm using that ATM. Prob not for long though, I think this update's gonna force me to change to DEX (and not just for Rudra, NIN getting Metsu/Shun buffs helps)... but for anyone who does have a non-DEX cap, it's still a really good choice.

In other news, my quest for Terpsichore is officially on. Always liked DNC since its release, but couldn't justify a Mythic for a job I used solo and had to beg to fit into parties. This update kinda changed everything :)

People would still take THF, because zomfgwtfdamage on stacked Rudra's.

DNC can't do that. Obviously. Because DNC.

On a more serious note, I'll try to math out Tights versus Toe Shoes later today, if I have some time.

/edit: Totally not representative, because we just went out to play with things and were not even trying to optimise overall party dps. So totally Fudo/PK/VS/whatever WS the RNG used spam onry.



Nitecon - Koga + Yoichi SAM/WAR.
Raegan - RNG/WAR, iirc (can't even remember their weapon)...
Lishenron - Tinhaspa B15 MNK/WAR

I snuck in some Evisceration to close Darkness, so the PK onry WS average is higher, even...

People might still prefer THF for pure damage, but DNC is easily viable now. I can hang with a Ryuno DRG and comfortably beat all our MNKs and DRKs, so I feel plenty comfortable that I'm more than pulling my weight as a DD. And DNC is still really fun to me solo, it's just that now it not a very difficult argument for my LS that I should be able to DNC in party content too.

Yes, you can. And I know you can. It's just that people who actually make the parties might not know you can. Or think that other options are a lot more viable, e. g. THF, because all they know is that THF ships 25k+ WSs, totally ignoring the fact that that happens once every 28 seconds on average.

Or BLU, because they read that BLU is capable of dishing out 11% more damage than SAM. Just like I did just now, even though I don't know the exact conditions. Except for many buffs and Haste II made a difference, because it frees up one song that then could be a 2nd Madrigal, which in turn let the BLU use full multi-attack gear except for minor swaps.

Actually, I don't think they'd even know that much.

Think they're both pretty close, between the two I'd be leaning for dex Buremte, just my hunch tho. Would love to see more discussion about it (see below)

Feet are ossom with 5/5 CP but dunno, I don't have those merits so I ignored them.
Horos+1 too are BiS for TP I think when Saber is up and you have 5/5. They're actually a nice WS option too when Saber is up.
New DW pants for TP are going to be better though if u're not at cap.
Either way I'd be curious to read updated TP sets with at least 1-2 alternatives for each slot.
Atm I only have 3 TP sets: Normal (full DW), Haste30 (set for when I have at least 30 Haste), No DW (no DW on gear at all). Each set also has an Acc version, so I guess you could say it's 6 sets.


What did I just read!? /slap capuchin
For stuff like Evisceration I see your logic and I agree, but for WSs that do not naturally Crit, a +3% crit RATE does absolutely nothing wether you use them normally, or you forcecrit them (it's already 100% if you force).
Probably you got confused with crit DAMAGE? It would be ossom for forced crits, but then again you kinda want to use AF3+2 ead for the +20% damage bonus so, again, you wouldn't use it.


I'm still having doubts for the slots I posted above though, for Rudra.

Ring
Airy Ring vs NQ Ramuh ring vs Rajas Ring?

Belt
Chiner's Belt +1?

Hands
Nilas Gloves vs Buremte (+8dex) vs Nomkahpa +1?

Earring
+3dex > 5% DA for real?

Now I'm waiting for tons of KB screenshots showing folks excited over Pixie Earring drops!

Guts say: Ramuh Ring > Rajas Ring >>> Airy Ring.

Reason being that the CHR bonus happens outside the fTP term and STR+5 means you get at least 1 fSTR out of it. Unless capped blabla.


Wanion > Artful +1 > Artful > Pipi > Chiner's +1, I think. Getting uncertain towards the end of that order.


Nomkahpa +1 > Nilas > Buremte DEX, given uncapped ATK and fSTR. Pretty much the same reasoning for Qaaxo C15 vs Vanir Boots.


The more TP you use Rudra's with, the worse multi-attack becomes. I don't know the exact turning point where Brutal Earring falls behind Pixie Earring (or equivalent), but if you intend to use Rudra's at higher TP levels only, DEX+3 will eventually win over DA+5.

Doh, thanks for calling me out on stupid. I was just thinking like Evisceration and not even remembering Rudra's can't naturally crit. Erase my Uk cap reasoning then, unless you're talking a WS that does have chance of crit.


Ah. Yeah, I don't assume the random community will get it. But I'm kinda fine with that, at least my own LS will know (I kinda don't let them forget!) and I will know that I'm not nerfing our group just so I get to play DNC.

My DNC actually became better melee DD than my MNK with this update, which honestly wasn't the case before (assuming in both cases that some unique aspect of either job didn't give it an edge in a given situation). So it at least gives me my own comfort that I'm being useful, which is more what I tend to care about.


Where are you generally using Rudra's now? Are you even WSing at 1000-2000, or just holding to somewhere 2000-3000 before using it?

I get that Terpsi aftermath will change things and definitely insert PK into the mix, but what about non-mythic?

That's what I'm thinking myself. I targeted my first mythic towards a job with party viability because I couldn't justify making a solo job mythic. This next one is going to be for dancer, which I love, and it's going to get 5 times as much use. It does kind of suck having to make tiers of accuracy sets/etc. like I have for samurai but being able to have a job that can solo AND DD both at high levels is killer. Only BLU really occupied that niche before this update.

The best line for non-Derps is to use Rudra's at 2000 effective TP (1750 with Moonshade, 1500 with Moonshade + that new TPB Blood Pact), I think. Stacked and unstacked both.

I personally only use Rudra's for screenshots (lulz) and for closing double Darkness now. Or if I end up with high TP for some reason, like overflown from swinging at a nearly dead mob.

While I'm sure you and most people here are aware, it's really easy for DNC to cap delay with any buffs at all. If you get Haste II or Marches, you're probably not gonna need the DW. I'll grab the pants when I can, but I expect I'll only find them useful in pure solo (no trusts) situations.

Actually, the increased utility of DW jobs who can cap delay also raises some interesting possibilities for party buffs. BRD using 1x March only, Haste Samba sometimes doing nothing (so either save your TP altogether, or toss out a Drain Samba III), etc. Since THF DNC BLU and NIN are all pretty strong these days, it's not at all unreasonable to put together a DD party solely composed of jobs that are able to cap delay without too much issue.

In response to the earlier question about STR and Attack, there is an awkward range from -22 to +12 dSTR where the conversion between STR and base damage is closer to 0.2 than 0.25, but anywhere other than that these are the approximate exchange rates between STR and DEX for our WSs purely in terms of base damage:
Rudra's Storm - 5 DEX = 16 STR
Pyrrhic Kleos - 5 DEX = 3 STR
Evisceration - 2 DEX = 4 STR
Exenterator - 7 AGI = 24 STR

So yeah, it is worth valuing STR somewhat even on WSs like Rudra's Storm. The 5 STR on Rajas Ring, for instance, is worth about 1.5 DEX worth of base damage.




As far as Attack, you need more of it until you don't. It's less of a concern on critical hits (like Climactic Rudra's), because the critical gives you a massive ratio boost. Lets say that you have the opportunity to trade 10% base damage for 0.25 Ratio (25% total attack boost). and For the purposes of a simple illustration, lets look at 4 conditions and assume that Ratio = Average pDIF:
1) 2.0 Ratio, non-crit :: 2.25/2.0 = +12.5% damage, so you should make the trade.
2) 2.0 Ratio, crit :: 3.0 / 3.0 = +0% damage, so you shouldn't make the trade.
3) 1.0 Ratio, non-crit :: 1.25/1.0 = +25% damage, so you should definitely make the trade
4) 1.0 Ratio, crit :: 2.25/2.0 = +12.5% damage, so you should make the trade

So you can see how critical hits devalue Attack. It's still useful, but it's not *as* useful.

"New" guide is in the making. Life's been pretty crazy for me recently though, so I haven't had time to work on it. With upcoming holidays etc., I should find some time for it.

Also in the making, if I'm bored on my upcoming long-*** flight: Horos Tights +1 versus Horos Toe Shoes +1. Featuring pre-update numbers, too! (Because I'm interested in them myself; I'm almost certain that I will just verify what I had spreadsheeted back then though.)