Christians: We Arent Trying To Condemn Anyone

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フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » christians: we arent trying to condemn anyone
christians: we arent trying to condemn anyone
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-16 01:37:20  
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
How about you stop believing everything the news tells you, that would be a good way for you to crawl out of your paranoid hole. You know how many kids "waited outside of class" to jump me when I choked a kid out for drawing a racial image of my girlfriend sucking his penis and sayin "mmm, tasts like eggrolls?" A lot of kids claimed they would be waiting for me...well they must be waiting for a special day, it's been 13 years now.

Everyone who reads the news from afar is just such a wonderful witness to what is really happening.

Footage doesn't *** lie.

Neither do the posts I saw with my own eyes threatening her. You're trying to deny facts at this point.

People were waiting for her. People are trying to hurt get to her through her siblings, but you just want to keep thinking that because I saw it on the news it's fake.

I didn't just see it on the news, either. I've been following the whole damn case for what, 18 months now?
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-16 01:38:26  
zahrah said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
zahrah said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Have a Dr. Pepper and relax.

Yuck! I don't like Dr. Pepper though. :(

Aaaaannnnnddddd...Wheelchairs?

/tired
Wheel chairs - see OP.

As for Dr. P: click here

Yeah...I read it already. Just putting the reminder out again. Maybe I shouldn't have put the question mark in.

/shrug

How's life?
Life is ok.
 Ragnarok.Evandis
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By Ragnarok.Evandis 2012-01-16 01:39:08  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
Why does this thread title have Christians in it. Anyone who pulls anyone, gay or straight, from a wheelchair is not a Christian.

And for Jessica Ahlquist. I went to school at Cranston West and we had many, many non-believing students back then who never once were bothered or even realized there was a prayer in the auditorium. So why is it a big deal now? Because some teen tot (and I can say this since I know her personally through my brother) thinks she is going to make a name for herself and be recognized as this great conqueror. Take the banner down for all I care, I don't think I, as a Christian, ever read it, but don't act like this isn't just some big public media display for a headline and some recognition and probably a nice college essay.

Except if you happen to be a believing Christian you eventually hit up against the problem of the text declaring gays as second class citizens, abominations, unclean etc etc.

You can resolve this issue by either taking Jesus' advice (leave it to him), believe the text at face value (gays are bad) or hashing out some middling compromise between the two. Either way within the rules of the text you cannot see a gay as equal to a hetero couple and this is where the problems begin because the text is instructing a tiering of men and this leads inevitably to violence.

I wouldn't go as far to say this issue wouldn't exist without religion but it is perpetuated and so hard to overcome because people cling to religious belief so tightly.

It's amusing though because many christians have written off other parts of the bible but the gay issue persists. Slavery being OK? Animal sacrifices? Public stoning? Death for working on the sabbath? Pork? Yeah.

The Bible specifically tells me that I cannot judge and condemn. I can tell people it's wrong if I want, but I cannot tell them what will happen to them. For the record, homosexuality doesn't "bother" me, so I never bother them or tell them they are wrong.

Once again, judgement is left for Him and the Bible itself says that there is only one unforgivable sin, and it isn't homosexuality. Heaven may very well be in their future, who knows?

However, as a Christian who understands the difference between legal and religious marriage, and understands why legal marriage should be an option for all in a free country that preaches equality, it is the militant atheists and the militant members of the LGBT community that attack me for my belief and assume I live for no other reason than to murder homosexuals, that I sit at home and drink a cup of coffee and play FFXI rather than offer any support to their cause.
 Bismarck.Ruizutatakau
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2012-01-16 01:39:33  
Bismarck.Ruizutatakau said: »
Just a matter of time before Evandis sees this thread.
Ha! I wish I wasn't busy doing VW or I could have watched it all unfold. Surprised the thread is still up too... D:
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-16 01:41:13  
The good doctor says it's time for some bong rips:
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 Ragnarok.Evandis
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By Ragnarok.Evandis 2012-01-16 01:41:37  
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
How about you stop believing everything the news tells you, that would be a good way for you to crawl out of your paranoid hole. You know how many kids "waited outside of class" to jump me when I choked a kid out for drawing a racial image of my girlfriend sucking his penis and sayin "mmm, tasts like eggrolls?" A lot of kids claimed they would be waiting for me...well they must be waiting for a special day, it's been 13 years now.

Everyone who reads the news from afar is just such a wonderful witness to what is really happening.

Footage doesn't *** lie.

Neither do the posts I saw with my own eyes threatening her. You're trying to deny facts at this point.

People were waiting for her. People are trying to hurt get to her through her siblings, but you just want to keep thinking that because I saw it on the news it's fake.

I didn't just see it on the news, either. I've been following the whole damn case for what, 18 months now?

Yep. We know, you know everything, because you read some news story and some anonymous internet posts. I can see how that is more credible than the word of people who were actually there and are there now.

For someone who is constantly being waited outside for to be beaten up, she must be a fast runner since it hasn't happened and she is still in that school daily.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-16 01:42:35  
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »

Yep. We know, you know everything, because you read some news story and some anonymous internet posts. I can see how that is more credible than the word of people who were actually there and are there now.

For someone who is constantly being waited outside for to be beaten up, she must be a fast runner since it hasn't happened and she is still in that school daily.

It was the day after the court decision that they were waiting to jump her. The second the court decision was declared public the threats started up again.

And yeah, those people there are gonna totally tell you "We're gonna beat up the atheist kid".

*** yeah. Of course.

Edit: I find it funny that the religious person is ignoring evidence, sticking their fingers in their ear and saying "LALALLALA LIFE ISN'T THAT WAY", and insisting they're right. Let me go get some screencaps.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-16 01:43:30  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
I don't know where you live or where this takes place but I live in a major metropolitan city and I not only grew up with but work with people that are atheists. Never have I once seen or heard them talk about discrimination and they don't hide their affiliation. Maybe I just grew up/live in an odd place. I guess I personally don't know a lot of people that flaunt their beliefs at all though.

Lucky for us, metropolitan centers tend to breed individuals who aren't as dogmatic in their beliefs but there are many places where lack of belief or the wrong belief will get you into hot water. It really is in a way similar to the gay issue in that you'll have people who are open to the idea but the majority are still quite divided.

Do you really think this country would elect an atheist to high office? Nope, it'd be a death on arrival simply because someone rejects the idea of a God. It's still a hot button issue that simply doesn't get addressed by the mainstream media at all because it's uncomfortable to discuss. The only atheists you see make the news circuits are men like Dawkins, Harris and the late Hitchens and these men are often painted in a way that makes them the 'enemy' to the wholesome USA.

Why is this?

Quote:
I have been personally attacked and had my life threatened based on who I am though and at the time what I was raised to believe. When I was 16 they called and threatened my life and came to my house and assaulted me because I a white Catholic and I was dating their daughter unaware of my offense against them. I was attacked because of my race and religious affiliation. Am I then a target of discrimination? Probably sounds silly to you huh?

It isn't silly and it's an example of the deep divides that religion erect between people and most certainly you were the target of discrimination as the label isn't reserved for minorities alone. The cruelties of faith (war, death, destruction, dogmatic groupthink amongst others) are a part of why I broke from the church and pursued this path of trying to be a moral person for the sake of being moral unhindered by rewards of religious belief.

You being Catholic reminds me of the controversy of Kennedy during his run for president back in the 60s. What a controversy that was and that's just within the same overarching belief in Christianity.
We elected a black man to office when no one really thought that to be possible. He was actually attacked early on because of his pastor, I believe his name is Jeremiah Wright. We now have a morman in the lead for the Republican nomination. Poligamy go! I'm starting to think many things that may have not been possible are now but who knows for sure.

I personally think with or without religion people would still find a reason to hate each other. I could be wrong but I don't recall there being any verses in the bible saying you should hate someone because the color of their skin is different from yours yet racial divides and hatred on the subject still exist. It kind of reminds me of that ASIP episode where Mac goes to check in on the Trans gender he had in the past and found that she was now married to another guy. He then started quoting the bible about how homosexuality is wrong basically because he was pissed she didn't call him after she had the surgery and instead hooked up with another guy. Dee would ask them about premarital sex and the like and they dismissed that as nothing lol.
 Lakshmi.Greggles
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By Lakshmi.Greggles 2012-01-16 01:44:08  
This is what this whole conversation reminds me of:

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 Ragnarok.Evandis
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By Ragnarok.Evandis 2012-01-16 01:44:51  
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »

Yep. We know, you know everything, because you read some news story and some anonymous internet posts. I can see how that is more credible than the word of people who were actually there and are there now.

For someone who is constantly being waited outside for to be beaten up, she must be a fast runner since it hasn't happened and she is still in that school daily.

It was the day after the court decision that they were waiting to jump her. The second the court decision was declared public the threats started up again.

And yeah, those people there are gonna totally tell you "We're gonna beat up the atheist kid".

*** yeah. Of course.

I'll continue to take the word of a friend who also is a teacher there, over your paranoid assumptions and accusations.

By the way, here is the prayer that upsets Xueye so much. It was written by some 7th grader back in 1963 for the school:

Quote:
Our Heavenly Father,
Grant us each day the desire to do our best,
To grow mentally and morally as well as physically,
To be kind and helpful to our classmates and teachers,
To be honest with ourselves as well as with others,
Help us to be good sports and smile when we lose as well as when we win,
Teach us the value of true friendship,
Help us always to conduct ourselves so as to bring credit to Cranston High School West.
Amen
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-16 01:45:59  
The words don't matter it's still a prayer.
 Ragnarok.Evandis
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By Ragnarok.Evandis 2012-01-16 01:48:37  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
The words don't matter it's still a prayer.

And the courts ordered it down and the school complied and despite what psychopath up there thinks, most people are fine with it.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-16 01:51:54  
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
The words don't matter it's still a prayer.

And the courts ordered it down and the school complied and despite what psychopath up there thinks, most people are fine with it.
So a government official didn't call the girl "An evil little thing?"
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-01-16 01:52:50  
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
The Bible specifically tells me that I cannot judge and condemn. I can tell people it's wrong if I want, but I cannot tell them what will happen to them. For the record, homosexuality doesn't "bother" me, so I never bother them or tell them they are wrong.

You're picking and choosing here. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because the sins were in excess. What were the sins you ask? I'm sure you know where this is going.

The bible has passages that say one thing and then a passage that says another. Why do you think people biblically justify acts of cruelty and discrimination against homosexuals? God unleashed his wrath and he's the divine image of all powerful good - why wouldn't I want to be more like him? There are plenty of passages that view homosexuality as a perversion of nature and thus the violence springs forth in men fueled by biblical passages. We've seen this happen before with the last great US shitstorm - slavery.

You cannot call someone who does these things as acting outside the bounds of Christianity because they're doing exactly what the text instructs and omitting the parts that speaking against passing judgement.

Quote:
Once again, judgement is left for Him and the Bible itself says that there is only one unforgivable sin, and it isn't homosexuality. Heaven may very well be in their future, who knows?

The biblical text says otherwise.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Quote:
However, as a Christian who understands the difference between legal and religious marriage, and understands why legal marriage should be an option for all in a free country that preaches equality, it is the militant atheists and the militant members of the LGBT community that attack me for my belief and assume I live for no other reason than to murder homosexuals, that I sit at home and drink a cup of coffee and play FFXI rather than offer any support to their cause.

I don't believe that all theists attack people and I'm willing to be allies of people willing to have their beliefs and keep it out of the public sphere like government, school and our legal system but trying to declare that violent Christians are somehow not in line with the Bible is just wrong.

This is the same issue that currently plagues Islamic teaching as you're going to have people that interpret the hardline teachings and commit atrocities and you're going to have moderate people who realize we're in the 21st century and we need to get along with eachother.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-16 01:53:07  
I took the links out of their facebook profiles, almost all of these people are Cranston. I don't wanna get banned off AH.

















Those were just a few of the first ones I have on hand.

When I find the footage again, I'll grab it. Not sure where it was posted.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-16 01:53:50  
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
The words don't matter it's still a prayer.

And the courts ordered it down and the school complied and despite what psychopath up there thinks, most people are fine with it.

Hey guys, I'm a psychopath because I believe that a girl rightfully defended the Constitution!

YAAAAAAAAY.
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By Powerslave 2012-01-16 01:53:57  
http://jesusfetusfajitafishsticks.blogspot.com/2012/01/ahlquist-screenshots-if-by-christian.html

People are ***. Goes to show that school is full of freaks, anyway.
 Ragnarok.Evandis
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By Ragnarok.Evandis 2012-01-16 01:55:02  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
The words don't matter it's still a prayer.

And the courts ordered it down and the school complied and despite what psychopath up there thinks, most people are fine with it.
So a government official didn't call the girl "An evil little thing?"

One person doesn't make up all of Cranston. It's a pretty large city, with two high schools. West is considered the privileged side, but it really isn't as far as the school is concerned. It houses the Career and Technical center and such it has students from many different cities in it.

Of all those people, almost none of them are truly bothered one way or the other. Psycotic up there wants you to think they are, but the truth is, very few students have said anything, let alone given her a hard time. Most of the online abuse is not from students or citizens of Cranston.
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By slipispsycho 2012-01-16 01:55:26  
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
The words don't matter it's still a prayer.

And the courts ordered it down and the school complied and despite what psychopath up there thinks, most people are fine with it.
Not openly protesting doesn't mean they're okay with it. I'm not going to go make a huge deal of it, but I'm not okay with prayer in school either.. Well I mean if some students want to go off in a corner and pray, then it's fine, I don't really care, but when it's over the PA or like in the middle of a pep rally, then I care. Basically when it's implied or demanded that every student respect it, I have a problem with it. Why should non-believers respect it? Why do believers find it offensive if they don't? Turn things around, put the shoe on the other foot, etc.. When either side demands respect and acknowledgement, then I have a problem with it.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-16 01:55:35  
Also, most people were fine with blacks not being shown the housing in white neighborhoods.

Most people were fine with slavery.

Most people were fine with placing the Japanese in camps.

Most people were fine with a lot of bad *** things.

When a public building shows that it supports only one group of people, it is against the foundations of the nation. Now the ball's in your court, as they say.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-16 01:56:06  
Just to put this out there. People are people. Being Atheist or Theist doesn't make you a good or bad person, that's your own actions that do that. Also, there are those on both sides that are prejudicial and discriminatory for whatever reason.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-16 01:56:19  
Lol. Because the majority of kids weren't bothered, the majority also being Christian, it's no problem.

Learn what the *** the rules are for tax funded schools, please. Till then, shut up.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-16 01:56:55  
Zarah, I love you!!! In a totally platonic way of course.
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2012-01-16 01:57:22  
few things:

for starters:

a lot of the slaves were sold by their own people, rival tribes etc, not just "kidnapping"

the discrimination and hatred towards atheists in the US is greater than hatred against any other non-christian group (religious argument wise) (ie: other religions are greatly more accepted than atheists...)

as for the theism vs non theism (atheism): there's no reason in the world to ever have faith in the supernatural, none. In fact it's ridiculous that people still use faith or have faith...

kind of like when older (or more developed brain) children make fun of others who still believe in santa, as they should...

last thing, the south:

the amount and radicalness of the religious nuts in the south is well known for a reason...

I met my girlfriend's grandmother for the first time not in public on the 25th, she's a racist stupid old bat, unfortunately I live in VA and it's all too common...
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-16 01:58:08  
At least one person was bothered by the fact that the Constitution was being violated. One person is enough.

No persons are enough, too. One person is one too many.

You don't give a ***because it wasn't a jihadist prayer. If it was, maybe you'd see the *** problem.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-16 01:58:20  
You can't technically call anything that happened in the old testament Christianity...
 
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-16 02:00:22  
Ragnarok.Evandis said: »
Of all those people, almost none of them are truly bothered one way or the other. Psycotic up there wants you to think they are, but the truth is, very few students have said anything, let alone given her a hard time. Most of the online abuse is not from students or citizens of Cranston.

I'm gonna start calling you Ignoramus, if you're gonna keep calling me that. That okay, Ignoramus?

Look up their facebook profiles. I dare you, I double dog dare you.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-01-16 02:00:27  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
You can't technically call anything that happened in the old testament Christianity...

Jesus isn't Yahweh's human incarnation?

Are you implying Christians should toss out the entire OT?
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