Apoc Or Ragnarok?

I found the derailed topic to be equally interesting lol.

Ragnarok is better for damage, Apoc is better for utility. Where the difference in damage is really highlighted is VW due to Ragna's weaknesses (inferior TP set/x-hit build) being covered up by buffs and Apoc's strengths being diminished (Fanatics/Mobs one shotting reduce Cata drain effectiveness and Misers/Disclipline mean Apocs superior x-hit/TP set isn't as important). Resolution just destroys Catastrophe damage wise basically and VW parses are heavily skewed by WS averages.

Having said that, if you could only pick one then Apocalypse every day of the week. There is no replacement for what Apocalypse does for DRK, there's nothing even close. Whereas the same isn't necessarily true for Ragnarok.

It's not like one makes the other redundant though. I alternate between the two frequently. Apoc probably gets slightly more use if only because most content doesn't need the extra damage from Ragna and Apoc makes life easier for support/low man situations.

My parses all say otherwise. Apoc is insane in VW zergs. Rag isn't out damaging Apoc when played correctly.

Are you sure it's not the other way around? Ragnaroks may be played incorrectly. I don't see how ragnarok could be losing if played properly with the superior WS.

I play with extremely well geared players with proper builds and we competively parse for fun.

And yes Resolution is the best WS.

How is Apoc coming ahead then? It should be losing in DOT and WS.

Personally I find that hard to believe for the sole reason that the opposite is true for myself. And my Apoc gear is far superior to my Ragnarok gear plus I play Apoc far more aggressively. The only times Apoc seems to be better is if the fight drags on, people die, buffs/fanas wear or you get crappy debuffs etc.

Parsing is not always an accurate representation of damage output in VW. Myriad factors like death, WHMs failing to remove status ailments in a timely manner, and attempting to proc using weaker WS's all adversely effects overall damage. Bottom line, winning a parse is as much luck as it is skill.

A parser is a nice tool, but it's entirely plausible for a Apoc and a Rag user to have a few bad parses due to aforementioned factors.

Taint probably is'nt basing this on a single parse now and then, and from the handful of ragnaroks on Cerb I think I know who he's parsing against, and that's a solid Ragnarok DRK.

He's more likely the better and more aggressive player. Your LS members must be doing something wrong if they are consistently losing.

our LS is full of dmg hungry pychopaths.
to OP APOCLYPSE! its gold and sharp as much as i think rag/resu would be neat for dmg the utility of apoca is awesome, and im soon to be finnished XD

No doubt its not, we do it for fun and to push each other. We used to do payouts based on results, which made people gear better and player harder. And no I don't win every time lol.

And nobody should be waiting on a WHM to get rid of ailments, between cleris and vicar's they should rarely be a problem.

I'd love to play with another well geared DRK, if the 99 Relic trials don't require gil I'm going to pump out a Rag myself. (if not only for WAR 2hring, Rag is insane for that)

Yeah, my comment was more or less general to those who use parsing VW as the end all, be all.

Oh and absolutely... parsing is very fun and it does make you work harder. Totally makes my day crushing Ukon WAR's in a parse. :)

Thinking same thing Taint.

I'm mathing Rag vs Apoc

During a VW zerg do Rag owners:

Keep AM up? Or just once at the start or never?
What do you sub?

Whats the ideal TP set look like?

Pop a wing, Scourge for extended AM~ spam resolution I'd say.
After that pop another wing if applicable, or just alternate scourge and resolution.

Maybe 1 wing, after that its not worth the DPS loss.

Depends, how long does it take to pop a wing?

During VW zerg, Ragnarok users usually:

don't keep AM up, nor once at start.

/war AND Souleater

TP set should aim for 6 hit with save tp atma that focus on multi-hit gear while capping ACC and Haste. Make no mistake capping ACC isn't automatic, so you have to adjust gears based on mobs.

Once SE wears, pop DE if you need more ACC. But with aggressor and the ACC on Rag, you should be ok with proper gears.

There is really limited gears you can swap out for substaintial boost in place of the 10% haste you get from Apoc. Tho it does provide far superior WS frequency, which is kinda neglected in VW. Tho so does the critical hit bonus of Ragnarok.

Also, I was skeptical about /war, but it really makes a huge difference. Even with my drg, which is able to take advantage of the 10% haste from Hasso that my Drk don't usually need with LR up, sees a 20-25% boost from /war.

Looking for an exact gear set.

It will come down to ACC and WS freqency. I know on Ig I barely cap ACC using all JAs and eating RCB.

I believe you can go with this set. Give or take the neck slot to mala if desired.

Sorry, swap out neck for the stp +3 neck since /war.

I've been playing with the DPS calc.

An excellent Rag DRK should beat an excellent Apoc DRK. A Rag DRK is going to need a number of different sets depending on the situation but with enough great sets it can always come out ahead.

If the Rag DRK stays with typical sets and an Apoc DRK stays with typical sets there are a lot of situations where Apoc will win, which is probably what I'm seeing on T6 VW.

Obviously the player will make or break it when it comes to competing.

Conclusion:

Rag is a better DPS weapon, it is however a lot less forgiving then Apoc. That ACC set Returner posted tipped the scale big time, before that Apoc was coming out way ahead on my estimated Ig.

Interesting, What about a War using Ragnarok? I'm interesting to see which pulls out better, Depending on the answer I'll level drk lol

this is what i'm using atm for TP set, i'll post WS set in a sec


This is WS set for Scourge, It needs work but MND/CHR is a tough one on DRK lol

You mean a sexy calc.

I believe you missed Abyss gauntlets +2. ^^

Yeah, I am collecting touches for it right now, but I don't have them so why post that I do lolz

I don't have a ragnarok yet, still in the process. That being said, I've heard that it works much like catastrophe in that it's more beneficial to stack attack/str than ws mods UNLESS your attack is capped, or near cap at least.

So if that's true, wouldn't a set like this be better?


Not trying to start a war here, just honestly curious.