Apocalypse Or Ragnarok

If you had to pick one, Apoc is a no brainer. It changes the job and the way you play it. (obviously) It also allows you to shuffle gear around to maximize gear sets.


I have yet to find a Rag user that is properly geared for the weapon. (5-6 TP sets,3-4 WS sets) I'll have mine soon, just so I can gear it and test it. I have not been impressed with the weapon so far, but most people don't gear/macro/play like I do.

^

I noticed the opposite, actually, and game mechanics really are pretty black-and-white most of the time.

The benefit of Cata's haste is prone to extreme variations depending on the conditions you're operating under. For instance, if acc is capped and you have 2x marches then it's very hard to fully capitalize on aftermath with LR up because you're already able to sacrifice 10%ish gear haste without aftermath. If you're playing defensively then that's another matter, but obviously in that case the drain is also quite relevant.

I'll try and go into detail later tonight. Last comparison I did was with marches so it was obviously skewed against Apoc, but I can do a more detailed workup. Qualifications for a "giant gap" are obviously subjective though.

Catastrophe keeping up with Resolution? I'd like to see the gimp who was doing the Resolution.

Since when do you need 6 TP sets for Ragnarok? lol..

Also, this... If Cata was truly keeping up with Reso at 95 I can only assume the Reso user had OAT GS and gear weaker than that of the competing Apoc, or else was suffering from accuracy issues. Reso really does destroy Cata, on the order of a 40-50% increase in per-WS damage if comparing 99 Rag to 99 Apoc (and thus granting Cata the full 40% boost).

Maybe the monster had a fresh Utsusemi: Ni up, in which case Catastrophe totally would be better.

You're only making his point. I can think of 6 TP sets for Ragnarok quite easily.

Well, let's say 3 levels of accuracy for normal sets.
And 3 levels of accuracy for when you have LR + marches (need less haste) ?
That's 6 right there.

You can't 5hit, you can 6hit with the new Askar gear, there's not much differences with a 7hit. Lastresort / march gear. That's 4ish max. Please tell me the last two.

Yep, Sadly i only have 3 TP sets for apoc atm =/ i know im gimp. But i Dont really do VW with drk atm. so i dont have a "I have brd and cor or i have brd no cor, and etc" sets atm. i only have solo/low man.

but its easy to be able to come up with 6+ sets for each weapon.

Oh for sure. Bashful, Dopey, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, Sneezy, and Doc - and that's just off the top of my head.

Standard low acc TP set, high acc tp set(rarely sees use, lamorak and T6 that last longer than agressor/DE duration), Last resort+March set for all realistic purposes. I have yet to see a (good) apoc even come close in VW. 3.1-3.7k resolution averages in my parses, how much is entropy doing?

I get that you love your apoc, and yes apoc does have purposes other than dealing damage. Just stop spouting that it is the superior DD weapon.

Even with OaT Gsword Resolution was keeping up with Ukkos which trashed Catastrophe. Though the DRK did have a good Entropy set and it was pretty close to Reso. Maybe on average 200 points less (Impressed me for a 100% INT mod though)

Honestly, Ragnarok is the better weapon for all out offensive, bar none. Apocalypse offers you only utility at the cost of a somewhat significant damage decrease. Not talking about the drain either, as that's mostly irrelevant. There aren't many times where your Catastrophe is life and death if your support is bad enough to warrant that situation to manifest to begin with. The main draw of Apocalypse is its ability to allow you to augment TP sets with stats other than haste, which in most cases is also somewhat irrelevant but can be useful in certain circumstances.

If I had a choice between an Apocalypse and a Ragnarok, I would go with Ragnarok simply because I would never be without support if I was on DRK, as there are better jobs to do the things that you would be trying to do to make Apocalypse a relevant asset.

Apoc is good for the survivability it grands, in that you can cap haste and keep capped PDT/MDT with aftermath active. I'm assuming this kind of utility will be valued for things like Legion anyways.

I too am missing something here where Apoc is some kind of sub par weapon.

Apoc is a beast, it offers a style of playing that's strictly unique to DRK. Cata/Entropy WSs will open up more options for solo/duo play. You'll be able to do more with less people

Rag is a beast, it offers flexibility across three jobs, Scourge's aftermath and Resolution spam will probably out-parse almost everything in the game.

Personally I went with Apoc.

However situated they are towards the game is it currently is, there's no telling how that will shift as 99 endgame develops further.

Scourge is a waste of a WS, but yes both weapons serve different purposes and are both highly useful.

Resolution on Ragnarok 99 is doing 50% more than Cata on 99 Apoc is?

It does look cool.
NOT A TOTAL WASTE.

Touche, I also like to spam it at Qilin for some Koki-like TH up in this ***.

Drops NQ daggers.

Moar gorgets.

Duh, you should be on DNC.

NO! Bad Sylow! :3


loldnc!

Standard, LR + Marches, and the following variants on those sets:

-accuracy
-PDT hybrid

makes at least 5-6 sets without exploring any potential variations in x-hit or otherwise varying builds based on buffs.

Was going by memory, 40% is more accurate given current top-end gear.

and what about Resolution VS Entropy? Thats what you should be looking at. 3 dusty wing catas in VW will last through most fights. which at 99 do decent dmg. then follow those by Entropy. I know entropy falls behind Res. but i dont know by how much.

A bit under 30% at a quick glance.

also night, do DA,TA,QA procs on entropy/reso still count as 1.0? or since ftp is carried over on all hits on these ws are they the same .75 at 100%tp? (excluding ele gear)

Also would an 8 hit entropy out damage an 8 hit reso at 100%tp?

i would ask about 200/300% but it seems as though resolutions ftp scales better than entropys'

Just curious is all^^

Quoting for emphasis

Really hope it revives healing style DNC. D:

I've no proof either way but I would presume fTP does transfer to DA/TA/QA attacks.

If it did it would be due to the difference in base damage between the two weapons. Reso's fTP isn't all that much lower and its WSC is significantly more favorable. Both can spike well into the 6k range with good rolls on pDIF and even beyond that with Scarlet Delirium and/or Souleater.

EDIT: A quick base damage count says Entropy still loses at 8 hits.

Speaking of Entropy,
Well, that's still a WS that could have been a bigger WS. You're gaining WS frequency (in theory, not necessarily in practice if mob dies before LR goes down) and thus hopefully making that up within the one minute timeframe, but it's not pure gain. Also I tend to avoid doing comparisons within the context of Voidwatch unless specifically building for Voidwatch.