Snake Eye Adjustment

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Corsair » snake eye adjustment
snake eye adjustment
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-05-16 16:34:07  
Phoenix.Sehachan said: »
As much as everyone enjoys boasting about how they can all hit 11 all the time, that's not always realistic, sometimes you have to settle. You can't always zone in and out till you hit a 11, lock it and then buff calmly till you have a double 11. Sometimes you have to reroll midfight and if you spend more than a minute rolling you're wasting a huge deal of damage. A non perfect roll+your free time is better than no roll and no damage from your side.
This adjustments makes it so 11 is achievable more easily even in those difficult moments, thus allowing for an improved playstyle.


Majority of VW doesn't last very long and just straight zerg, if your No.11 last long enough you can skip rolling mid-fight entirely. But if possible, I'd rather have No.11 or good number roll last entire time than re-rolling mid-fight.

For me merit is either snake eye 5/5 winning streak 3/5 (402 sec roll duration, higher chance for auto No.11) or Snake eye 3/5 winning streak 5/5(458 sec roll duration, -10% or -20% chance for auto No.11), and maybe change around depending on what I do.

I guess it may be depend on the fight as well, for Provenance dragon zerg which usually last about 2~2.5 min, sometimes roll wears near the end of fight after all the embrava+song rotation which takes a couple min more, capping winning streak merit will help it last entire time.

But if rolling mid-fight is necessary or if it's fight with many death occurred, then it seems extra 10% or 20% chance for auto 11 after snake eye is better than extra 50 sec duration, since the amount of time you'd roll mid-fight isn't gonna change much most of the time, and any free 11 I got during the battle just reduce the amount of time to rebuff and enhanced everyone's dmg.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-05-17 08:17:45  
Phoenix.Sehachan said: »
As much as everyone enjoys boasting about how they can all hit 11 all the time, that's not always realistic, sometimes you have to settle. You can't always zone in and out till you hit a 11, lock it and then buff calmly till you have a double 11. Sometimes you have to reroll midfight and if you spend more than a minute rolling you're wasting a huge deal of damage. A non perfect roll+your free time is better than no roll and no damage from your side. This adjustments makes it so 11 is achievable more easily even in those difficult moments, thus allowing for an improved playstyle.

Asura.Fondue said: »
doing ADL I dont spend any more time than necessary to put 2 buffs on, already holding up the show as is if the first roll doesnt get an xi buffs and drop I dont ever want to bust and I'll settle on whatever tbh, the snake eye buff will definitely help getting off unlucky numbers or 10 cause the entire kill/buff rotation takes 5-6min for JAs etc to come back up on DDs but this adjustment is not the coolest ***since sliced bread imo

These sum things up nicely. Though a few notes on what Fondue said; I will risk busting out of one roll rolling for ADL b/c of fold/etc. But I won't hold up the show any longer than that.

Also, it's not the "ZOMG AWESOME" update I think we wanted it to be, but it's still yet another good boost to the job. I'll take it.

Siren.Fupafighters said: »
I constantly get 6+6 :/ lol

I remember someone saying once that "Oh you shouldn't be going 6>6 that often, it's only a [insert random huge ratio] chance!" -- Bull! That crap happens to me once every other roll cycle, I swear to Altana.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 09:19:24  
Phoenix.Sehachan said: »
As much as everyone enjoys boasting about how they can all hit 11 all the time, that's not always realistic, sometimes you have to settle.

Finally, someone with sense. I was beginning to think everyone was on some sort of reality-denying drugs.

Quote:
You can't always zone in and out till you hit a 11, lock it and then buff calmly till you have a double 11. Sometimes you have to reroll midfight and if you spend more than a minute rolling you're wasting a huge deal of damage. A non perfect roll+your free time is better than no roll and no damage from your side.

Especially if the roll is guaranteed to be supercharged. See: Chaos Roll with DRK in party.

Quote:
This adjustments makes it so 11 is achievable more easily even in those difficult moments, thus allowing for an improved playstyle.

\o/
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 Ifrit.Phlow
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By Ifrit.Phlow 2012-05-17 09:26:03  
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
I remember someone saying once that "Oh you shouldn't be going 6>6 that often, it's only a [insert random huge ratio] chance!" -- Bull! That crap happens to me once every other roll cycle, I swear to Altana.

I might have said that. Statistically, it isn't impossible, but the chances of rolling a 6 and then another 6 are 1 in 36 or about 2.7% chance (the same as any two predetermined rolls).

To be fair, you should be hitting an 11 in two rolls about double the time you hit 6>6, as there are two combinations of 11, the numbers 5>6 and 6>5. (note: I'm not saying you have double the chance if you've already rolled once - if you're sitting on a 6, you have the same chance to roll another 6 as you do a 5)

This is relying on two glaring assumptions, though.
1) All numbers are truely random
2) The Law of Large Numbers

As for the snake eye adjustment... Damn, this is going to be a long *** algorithm to figure out how to optomize rolling.
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By Kooljack 2012-05-17 09:52:20  
midfight sure rolls wear and you toss up a roll just too have something. but other then that theres really no excuse not too have double xi's up. while everyone is gathering you just gotta hit an 11 every 6-7mins too be ready too hit that second xi 1-2mins before fight starts.

once you have that first xi up it rarely takes more then 2mins too hit a second xi. And if your only using snake eye on x's it should be pretty dam easy with a 5min timer.

zoning in n out for rolls? you on crack. hit an xi.. it lasts 7 mins. then you can just reroll till you hit another easy easy. tacticians is doing something while your busting and rerolling it
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 09:56:25  
Kooljack said: »
midfight sure rolls wear and you toss up a roll just too have something. but other then that theres really no excuse not too have double xi's up. while everyone is gathering you just gotta hit an 11 every 6-7mins too be ready too hit that second xi 1-2mins before fight starts.

once you have that first xi up it rarely takes more then 2mins too hit a second xi. And if your only using snake eye on x's it should be pretty dam easy with a 5min timer.

zoning in n out for rolls? you on crack. hit an xi.. it lasts 7 mins. then you can just reroll till you hit another easy easy. tacticians is doing something while your busting and rerolling it

I do a 3 or 4 roll rotation depending on how lazy I'm feeling, so this just doesn't work for me.
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-05-17 10:00:11  
Kooljack said: »
zoning in n out for rolls? you on crack.
Get to camp and start rolling while people still gather. Bust? Zone. Bust? Zone. Bust? Zone. Till you get 11, then lock buff and wait. This can be done in VW. You can log in and out for ADL, but I wouldn't waste my time like that.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 10:01:41  
Not to mention that if my rolls last 7 minutes and fights last 2 minutes with <1 minute in between, at least half of the time I'm going to be re-rolling mid-fight.

I don't have time to play around ;<
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By Kooljack 2012-05-17 12:53:06  
Phoenix.Sehachan said: »
Kooljack said: »
zoning in n out for rolls? you on crack.
Get to camp and start rolling while people still gather. Bust? Zone. Bust? Zone. Bust? Zone. Till you get 11, then lock buff and wait. This can be done in VW. You can log in and out for ADL, but I wouldn't waste my time like that.

Fenrir.Sylow said: »

I do a 3 or 4 roll rotation depending on how lazy I'm feeling, so this just doesn't work for me.

this is perfect both of you are kinda of on opposite ends of the spectrum that I think there is a middle ground too.

your two comments go hand in hand on the mentality that is going too keep you from obtaining double xi's consistently for your party.

If i may lay out a little bit of my thought process behind rolling that goes against your two mentalities that i see a lot on my server. So this is something I've been wanting too point out too the corsair community as a whole and not directing at you guys in a negative condescending way. we are all adults. you don't need me to tell you what too do. you can play however you want cause obviously that's a given. just bear with me. hear me out. Maybe even relax your rolling technique and give this mind set a go. Just want too provide a different way of thinking about rolling that i think is going too give the most benefit.

3 or 4 different rolls is a good thing. clinging too only 2 rolls is going too prevent you from providing double xi's for your party.

- - -

weather it be waiting for your group too gather or just doing a 2hr dynamis run. Try not too think about lucky or unlucky #'s. they do come into play but I'l address that more towards the end of my examples or my next reply.

(risk double-ups on 6's if you have fold up. 7-10's opt too stay). I'm getting too something.

You roll, roll#1. double up until you hit 6 or higher. lets say you hit 7, 8, or 9. stay. wait for phantom roll timer too cool.

you roll, roll#2. same process. and repeat until you hit your first xi. (you'll need 3 rolls too use obviously if you keep missing :))

so at the start of your run or upon entering zone that your doing vw fight in. start this process. just get rolls up too hit your first xi. Do not bust; unless you have a fold. Ignore lucky #'s because these initial rolls dont matter much anyways sense your just trying too hit an xi on any roll doesn't matter if it's a subpar roll like your 3rd or 4th priority roll. just hit that first xi. slowly without busting your face up. XD

- - -

Ok so we have an xi up and some random roll thats on an unlucky lets just say. also your xi is only on you because you hit it while all your pt member weren't there. (no big deal). don't get too attached too your xi's because using this process they are a dime a dozen.

- - -

now that we have an xi up; as you all know you can bust without a penalty being applied too you; and you phantom roll timer is cut too 30 seconds. this is your key too unending xi's. you can easily hit a second xi before this one wears off. stand outside your mog and test this out. feel how easy it is too put a second xi on yourself once you have your first xi.

- - -

Now; lets say you got double xi's up aight.. pt is still gathering.. we aint tripping, flippin, logging, locking your buff. (lame). Il tell you why.

Lets say your at 4/7 minutes on your first XI roll... its gonna wear off in 3minutes. And you have a second XI up because they are easy too hit cause you can bust until you hit it. not too mention if you used snake eye too hit the first xi its timer will be up two minutes still before that first roll wears. allowing tens to be converted.

roll#1: XI @ 4/7min. wears in 3.
roll#2: xi @ 1/7min. wears in 6.

use a 3rd roll now. war, drk or sam in pt? use their job specific roll.

You are now hitting your 3rd xi all while still having two xi's up... too refresh the timer. if you bust that 3rd priority roll you can then roll the optimal roll again.

A lot of times Il have rolls looking like this:

roll#1: XI @ 2/7min.
roll#2: XI @ 1/7min.

A big flaw that i think corsairs do is they cling too their xi's like a crack fiend and ride them until they wear off. In this situation above, if you wait until roll #1 wears before putting up a new roll you only have 1 minute or less too hit an XI or be XI'less. Your goal is too always have an xi up. So what im going too do here is wait until the timers are: 4/7 and 3/7; or 5/7 and 4/7 respectively. At this point I am going too roll something else too knock that first XI off the list. I can purposely bust it too get the same exact roll going again or if i hit an xi on this new roll and want too keep it great. say it takes me too the last second too hit it.. which it shouldn't sense you got 30 sec phantom timer and a snake eye at your disposal every 5min. you'd be looking like: 0/7. & 5/7; or 6/7.

A lot of times you'l hit double xi's without even trying this process, but then letting your XI's wear off before reapplication is where the fault lies. Dont be a tight wade. Don't worry about knocking an xi away too reapply a new xi(or the same one) after timers are over the halfway mark of their duration.

- - -

1;2 of VW fights an XI will wear before the fight is over. dont trip on hitting an XI during the fight. just put something up and restart process.

- - -

Everyone hits Xi's; not too hard. Use 3 rolls at the start and keep rolling every 50seconds till you hit one. It has a 7min duration. once you have that first XI up; you have plenty of time too hit a second XI during the down time or whenever you feel like.

And when you got your double XI's up refresh them before the first one wears (unless in the middle of a fight then opt for a non-bust number).

Dont cling too your XIs untill their all entirely gone; cause then your waiting on snake eye to be your god send. reapply a new XI even if you have double xi's up. there is plenty of downtime in VW too do this.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 12:55:55  
If there's plenty of downtime in VW, I'm warping out and doing something else.

I guess this is why I don't do NA VW anymore, too much standing around waiting.

I do my best to keep 11s up, but at the end of the day, as long as decent-strength buffs are up full time, the job is done.

This may sound strange coming from someone as max-min as myself, but yeah.
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By Kooljack 2012-05-17 12:59:51  
the lazy corsair is the one that shoots for lucky numbers... lucky numbers are just good too know middle fight and your just throwing something up cause its mid-battle and your not going too take the time too bust until you XI.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 13:01:15  
Kooljack said: »
the lazy corsair is the one that shoots for lucky numbers... lucky numbers are just good too know middle fight and your just throwing something up cause its mid-battle and your not going too take the time too bust until you XI.

Like I said, I'm almost always rolling mid-fight. If there's enough time for me to roll three or four times to go for an XI between fights, it's not worth my time to stick around.
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By Asura.Fondue 2012-05-17 13:03:00  
is keeping a lucky roll up after 1 roll and returning to shoot/ws more or less beneficial to your party than rerolling 7 times for a minor increase in the buff potency?

do you not shoot at all? how do you have time to sit there doing so many rerolls/busts
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By Kooljack 2012-05-17 13:07:22  
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Kooljack said: »
the lazy corsair is the one that shoots for lucky numbers... lucky numbers are just good too know middle fight and your just throwing something up cause its mid-battle and your not going too take the time too bust until you XI.

Like I said, I'm almost always rolling mid-fight. If there's enough time for me to roll three or four times to go for an XI between fights, it's not worth my time to stick around.

"Hi im 5 and never have wait time on anything. if there is im a *** wade and ditch the group."

down time isnt the focus of doing this. we're just utilizing it too provide optimal buffs.

Like i said hitting an XI isnt too tough especially with snake eye. upon entering the zone there is always 2-4mins of gather time from running to enter point too the rift. (unless you all 18 ppl butthugg eachother?) No way in hell am i suggesting too slow your powerhouse alliance down for you too put double XI's up between every fight if they can pop them instantly back-to-back.
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By Kooljack 2012-05-17 13:08:47  
Asura.Fondue said: »
is keeping a lucky roll up after 1 roll and returning to shoot/ws more or less beneficial to your party than rerolling 7 times for a minor increase in the buff potency?

do you not shoot at all? how do you have time to sit there doing so many rerolls/busts

during the fight im not doing this. im not going for xi's. I'm just showing that hitting double xi's before a fight starts isnt hard.. and they last 7mins so hit double xi's before the fight and rape.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 13:12:37  
Kooljack said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Kooljack said: »
the lazy corsair is the one that shoots for lucky numbers... lucky numbers are just good too know middle fight and your just throwing something up cause its mid-battle and your not going too take the time too bust until you XI.

Like I said, I'm almost always rolling mid-fight. If there's enough time for me to roll three or four times to go for an XI between fights, it's not worth my time to stick around.

"Hi im 5 and never have wait time on anything. if there is im a *** wade and ditch the group."

down time isnt the focus of doing this. we're just utilizing it too provide optimal buffs.

Like i said hitting an XI isnt too tough especially with snake eye. upon entering the zone there is always 2-4mins of gather time from running to enter point too the rift. (unless you all 18 ppl butthugg eachother?) No way in hell am i suggesting too slow your powerhouse alliance down for you too put double XI's up between every fight if they can pop them instantly back-to-back.

I never said anything about getting XIs before the group gets there, I think at this point everyone knows how mind-numbingly easy that is.

I don't mind waiting when it's reasonable. But in NA groups it's always 3 minutes for people to clear chests, then 5 people want to AFK for 10 minutes, then on the 3rd fight someone on an essential proc job gets drop and their grandmother falls down the stairs and they have to AFK so someone has to bring their LS mate out...

***never happens in JP groups. Gather --> Buff --> Fight x4-6 with no downtime --> Restone --> Repeat.
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By Asura.Fondue 2012-05-17 13:12:43  
I feel obnoxious rerolling so many times between fights so I will try a few times then just settle on whatever honestly

I've never been in a good jp group doing voidwatch.. full af3 ukon wars not swapping gear and all of them {Taking a break.} midrun for ricecakes or someshit every time
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 13:15:20  
Maybe it varies by server, but I'm also joining the groups who generally won't take NAs at all, lol.
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 Asura.Kese
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By Asura.Kese 2012-05-17 13:16:19  
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 13:16:44  
Dafuq.
 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2012-05-17 13:16:45  
yeah I get in those via google translate sometimes
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 13:19:12  
Lol.

JP groups also won't sit around waiting for you to roll. If you're being a Busty Betty, they'll just do the fight without buffs, lol.

NA groups tend to wait around until you're obviously done rolling, so I've noticed.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 13:21:11  
What is it with you people and *** cookies.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-05-17 13:25:29  
Who said it's hard to get double 11 before fights? When you have all the time in the world sure nothing's going to stop you.
But even in between fights people aren't going to wait for you to hit a 11 streak, therefore you're forced to settle with whatever best you were able to get in that minute.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-17 13:26:09  
Phoenix.Sehachan said: »
Who said it's hard to get double 11 before fights? When you have all the time in the world sure nothing's going to stop you.
But even in between fights people aren't going to wait for you to hit a 11 streak, therefore you're forced to settle with whatever best you were able to get in that minute.

I'm just going to agree with everything you say today~
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 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2012-05-17 13:26:47  
cause I'm ghetto rich and famous just like I'm famous amos moovin all these cookies got you rookies out here pointin fingers


where did famous amos get a watermelon hat????????
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By Kooljack 2012-05-17 14:05:05  
Phoenix.Sehachan said: »
Who said it's hard to get double 11 before fights? When you have all the time in the world sure nothing's going to stop you.
But even in between fights people aren't going to wait for you to hit a 11 streak, therefore you're forced to settle with whatever best you were able to get in that minute.

I would say on average there is 2-3 minutes in between fights. plenty of time too hit an XI if you already have one up

pretending your group always pops them in under a minute is /fail

I said my peace- sorry for the hate comments.
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-05-17 14:07:31  
Eh?
And yes, if group didn't derp and wipe it's clear chest and pop right after.
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By Kooljack 2012-05-17 14:08:25  
actually if you sitting on a 5+ there is a 1/3 chance you'l hit 10 or 11. that equates too 1min and 30seconds average time between fights too throw up an XI.