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[dev1137] Salvage Battlefield Expansion
 Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:11:53
So, because not every single piece was best in slot for every job able to use them, that's what makes the gear not "premium" ?
Also skadi head was good for THF SA/TA without ws The arguement is that Salvage gear was somehow a better set than other end game gear options at the time. In the end full Ares is only useful for Jump, and for the most part the Body and Legs are the only Ares pieces worth talking about for the other jobs. How is it that a set of gear is premium when it only has uses for one job of four. Because it was premium for what it was used for? I really don't see how this is a hard concept for you.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-07-26 05:12:07
And well, Failaras, by your logic no pieces gear was better than other gear.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:12:15
I can kinda understand why he thinks evasion on sam was BAD, because nobody ever used evasion gear on samurai for some reason.
But samurai actually have like B evasion skill, aka same as monk, and monk was always a good evasion tank with proper gear.
SAM might not get dodge, but seigan\third eye more than makes up for that. PDT was better in every situation but soloing.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1932
By Asura.Dajociont 2012-07-26 05:12:58
Use it in place of where and you will actually make a lot less mistakes when you type.
hey, were do you get off? if i where they're you'd be sorry! their is people in the world like me and we take offense to that! there not happy with you either!
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:12:58
I can kinda understand why he thinks evasion on sam was BAD, because nobody ever used evasion gear on samurai for some reason.
But samurai actually have like B evasion skill, aka same as monk, and monk was always a good evasion tank with proper gear.
SAM might not get dodge, but seigan\third eye more than makes up for that. Lamprey Lord was a good example of a place I'd use SAM for an evasion tank, duo RDM+SAM.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-07-26 05:13:02
Also Skadi was awesome for cor.
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:13:13
So, because not every single piece was best in slot for every job able to use them, that's what makes the gear not "premium" ?
Also skadi head was good for THF SA/TA without ws The arguement is that Salvage gear was somehow a better set than other end game gear options at the time. In the end full Ares is only useful for Jump, and for the most part the Body and Legs are the only Ares pieces worth talking about for the other jobs. How is it that a set of gear is premium when it only has uses for one job of four. Because it was premium for what it was used for? I really don't see how this is a hard concept for you. I completely understand the concept, I just think it is silly.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:13:18
I can kinda understand why he thinks evasion on sam was BAD, because nobody ever used evasion gear on samurai for some reason.
But samurai actually have like B evasion skill, aka same as monk, and monk was always a good evasion tank with proper gear.
SAM might not get dodge, but seigan\third eye more than makes up for that. PDT was better in every situation but soloing. Not always.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:13:37
So, because not every single piece was best in slot for every job able to use them, that's what makes the gear not "premium" ?
Also skadi head was good for THF SA/TA without ws The arguement is that Salvage gear was somehow a better set than other end game gear options at the time. In the end full Ares is only useful for Jump, and for the most part the Body and Legs are the only Ares pieces worth talking about for the other jobs. How is it that a set of gear is premium when it only has uses for one job of four. Because it was premium for what it was used for? I really don't see how this is a hard concept for you. I completely understand the concept, I just think it is silly. Well everyone here thinks you're silly, so yeah.
By Artemicion 2012-07-26 05:14:01
PDT was better in every situation but soloing. 
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:14:52
So, because not every single piece was best in slot for every job able to use them, that's what makes the gear not "premium" ?
Also skadi head was good for THF SA/TA without ws The arguement is that Salvage gear was somehow a better set than other end game gear options at the time. In the end full Ares is only useful for Jump, and for the most part the Body and Legs are the only Ares pieces worth talking about for the other jobs. How is it that a set of gear is premium when it only has uses for one job of four. Because it was premium for what it was used for? I really don't see how this is a hard concept for you. I completely understand the concept, I just think it is silly. Well everyone here thinks you're silly, so yeah. Everyone is like 5 people and you thumbs upping every comment in the post, not exactly scary.
[+]
Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-07-26 05:15:08
If you want to be techical, on any NM you were tanking (if going full defence) you'd want evasion gear while TE was up and then smack on PDT when it was down.
You'd be suprised how many mobs you could get a decent(not capped) eva rate on with a good set.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:15:34
So, because not every single piece was best in slot for every job able to use them, that's what makes the gear not "premium" ?
Also skadi head was good for THF SA/TA without ws The arguement is that Salvage gear was somehow a better set than other end game gear options at the time. In the end full Ares is only useful for Jump, and for the most part the Body and Legs are the only Ares pieces worth talking about for the other jobs. How is it that a set of gear is premium when it only has uses for one job of four. Because it was premium for what it was used for? I really don't see how this is a hard concept for you. I completely understand the concept, I just think it is silly. Well everyone here thinks you're silly, so yeah. Everyone is like 5 people and you thumbs upping every comment in the post, not exactly scary. Well that's more than the number of jobs that can use full ares in a given situation, so yeah.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2012-07-26 05:15:34
So, because not every single piece was best in slot for every job able to use them, that's what makes the gear not "premium" ?
Also skadi head was good for THF SA/TA without ws The arguement is that Salvage gear was somehow a better set than other end game gear options at the time. In the end full Ares is only useful for Jump, and for the most part the Body and Legs are the only Ares pieces worth talking about for the other jobs. How is it that a set of gear is premium when it only has uses for one job of four. Because it was premium for what it was used for? I really don't see how this is a hard concept for you. I completely understand the concept, I just think it is silly. Well everyone here thinks you're silly, so yeah. Everyone is like 5 people and you thumbs upping every comment in the post, not exactly scary.
That's because every post but yours is worth thumbing up
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1932
By Asura.Dajociont 2012-07-26 05:16:03
i'm pretty scared, the fact someone as HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE as you believe he has enough credibility to think he's right in any situation scares me
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:16:49
If you want to be techical, on any NM you were tanking (if going full defence) you'd want evasion gear while TE was up and then smack on PDT when it was down.
You'd be suprised how many mobs you could get a decent(not capped) eva rate on with a good set. That's like arguing that Paladin was a worthwhile tank because they could go full defense, the point is that DD gear while TE was up and PDT while it was down was the better style of playing.
[+]
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:17:41
If you want to be techical, on any NM you were tanking (if going full defence) you'd want evasion gear while TE was up and then smack on PDT when it was down.
You'd be suprised how many mobs you could get a decent(not capped) eva rate on with a good set. That's like arguing that Paladin was a worthwhile tank because they could go full defense, the point is that DD gear while TE was up and PDT while it was down was the better style of playing. Again, not always.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:17:51
Quote: That's because every post but yours is worth thumbing up For sure man, there are some quality posts in here.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:18:06
If you want to be techical, on any NM you were tanking (if going full defence) you'd want evasion gear while TE was up and then smack on PDT when it was down.
You'd be suprised how many mobs you could get a decent(not capped) eva rate on with a good set. That's like arguing that Paladin was a worthwhile tank because they could go full defense, the point is that DD gear while TE was up and PDT while it was down was the better style of playing. Again, not always. Pretty much always
[+]
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:18:56
If you want to be techical, on any NM you were tanking (if going full defence) you'd want evasion gear while TE was up and then smack on PDT when it was down.
You'd be suprised how many mobs you could get a decent(not capped) eva rate on with a good set. That's like arguing that Paladin was a worthwhile tank because they could go full defense, the point is that DD gear while TE was up and PDT while it was down was the better style of playing. Again, not always. Pretty much always No, not really. See above about lamprey lord. My evasion/DD hybrid set sam I could ride hasso and kill it faster than you juggling seigan+PDT.
Phoenix.Sehachan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-07-26 05:19:54
Quote: That's because every post but yours is worth thumbing up For sure man, there are some quality posts in here. Lol. Dude...
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:20:42
If you want to be techical, on any NM you were tanking (if going full defence) you'd want evasion gear while TE was up and then smack on PDT when it was down.
You'd be suprised how many mobs you could get a decent(not capped) eva rate on with a good set. That's like arguing that Paladin was a worthwhile tank because they could go full defense, the point is that DD gear while TE was up and PDT while it was down was the better style of playing. Again, not always. Pretty much always No, not really. See above about lamprey lord. My evasion/DD hybrid set sam I could ride hasso and kill it faster than you juggling seigan+PDT. If something was easy enough to kill riding Hasso with a hybrid set, it was also easy enough to kill riding Seigan with a pure DD set and generally not bothering with PDT. The Seigan one will also net you a faster kill speed.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2012-07-26 05:20:55
I believe we have run out of situational points. Time to pull out the balance points.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:20:57
Quote: That's because every post but yours is worth thumbing up For sure man, there are some quality posts in here. Lol. Dude... For instance!
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:21:57
If you want to be techical, on any NM you were tanking (if going full defence) you'd want evasion gear while TE was up and then smack on PDT when it was down.
You'd be suprised how many mobs you could get a decent(not capped) eva rate on with a good set. That's like arguing that Paladin was a worthwhile tank because they could go full defense, the point is that DD gear while TE was up and PDT while it was down was the better style of playing. Again, not always. Pretty much always No, not really. See above about lamprey lord. My evasion/DD hybrid set sam I could ride hasso and kill it faster than you juggling seigan+PDT. If something was easy enough to kill riding Hasso with a hybrid set, it was also easy enough to kill riding Seigan with a pure DD set and generally not bothering with PDT. The Seigan one will also net you a faster kill speed. No, not really, once again. You go ride hasso with no evasion on that NM and tell me how well your RDM can keep up with that.
[+]
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:22:57
If you need a level 75 RDM to sync to, I have one with perfect gear barring relic hat. But it's okay since i have augmented blood mask and a wivre hairpin to cover all a relic hat will.
By Artemicion 2012-07-26 05:23:11
I better go. This thread is starting to feel like the official forums too much. All that's missing is this.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2012-07-26 05:25:46
If you want to be techical, on any NM you were tanking (if going full defence) you'd want evasion gear while TE was up and then smack on PDT when it was down.
You'd be suprised how many mobs you could get a decent(not capped) eva rate on with a good set. That's like arguing that Paladin was a worthwhile tank because they could go full defense, the point is that DD gear while TE was up and PDT while it was down was the better style of playing. Again, not always. Pretty much always No, not really. See above about lamprey lord. My evasion/DD hybrid set sam I could ride hasso and kill it faster than you juggling seigan+PDT. If something was easy enough to kill riding Hasso with a hybrid set, it was also easy enough to kill riding Seigan with a pure DD set and generally not bothering with PDT. The Seigan one will also net you a faster kill speed. No, not really, once again. You go ride hasso with no evasion on that NM and tell me how well your RDM can keep up with that. I don't remember that NM, I probably never even fought that NM with an only Rdm+Sam set up. What I can tell you is that I've never fought any NM in the game as a Sam tank in which an evasion set would be better suited than PDT or DD sets. Which makes me doubt that this situation is any different. It's like the people saying that "Oh my god voidwatch is so hard need paladin for it" because they played with bad people who couldn't handle the healing or didn't have the proper sets (or used them wrong).
Lakshmi.Rearden
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-07-26 05:27:12
Khimaira, Lv90ish mob
Assume ~400 accuracy
Attacks hit (iirc) range of 250-350, very fast, could get 1 shot by some WS if you were terrible or bad luck
Samurai, Lv75
256 Evasion
46 in gear=302
Guestimating 70AGI
337 total evasion
Just quickly napkin'd a 75% hit rate for Khim in that scenario, which as I remember made TE last a good deal longer than using PDT and a quick cancel -> utsu -> TE made it a joke.
Wearing no evasion gear throws it back to 95% acc for Khim
doing new 14 fight, more later
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10480
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-07-26 05:27:54
Just because you've never done it, doesn't make it any less real of a situation. And SAM+RDM was the safest and easiest way to do it without pinning, unless for some reason you were killing it without upgrading magian weapons.
| 07-25-2012 06:47 PM | | Okipuit | | Community Rep |  |
| | It's time to Salvage some gear!
Sorry for the bump but we just received the following information from development:
Along with the higher tier Salvage expansion, we will also be introducing means to revamp the existing Salvage equipment. This will not take place via Trial of the Magians, instead it will be similar to the system used for Homam/Nashira equipment in the higher tier Limbus. | |
| 07-27-2012 01:26 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| | Greetings!
Similar to how we added jobs that previously could not wear Homam/Nashira to the new Murzim and Shedir equipment available via the new higher-tier Limbus areas, the development team is planning to add dancer, scholar, and other jobs to the new Salvage equipment, but not to the currently existing Salvage gear.
In regards to reducing the number of required players for entry, I believe a similar response was made in the past about assault, but we do not have any plans of lowering the requirement due to concerns that instances will be filled faster causing congestion. | |
| 08-13-2012 07:39 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| | Greetings!
The higher tier Salvage expansion is currently under-development as we speak and I’d like to share the basic concept of what we will be adding.
Higher Tier Expansion
High tier expansions will be added for each of the four areas (Arrapago Remnants, Silver Sea Remnants, Zhayolm Remnants, Bhaflau Remnants)
Fundamental concept is the same as the original Salvage, but will be targeting level 99 characters
Will contain strategy elements such as route selection and NM spawning conditions
Changes to the Pathos of Alzadaal
After considering that these imbued items clutter inventory, and the time spent lotting and distributing them made it difficult to focus on strategy, we will be changing the system so that instead of using items to unlock limitations, they will randomly be removed when defeating monsters.
While it will no longer be possible to select the player you wish to unlock, we are planning to make adjustments so that the effects removed by defeating monsters will be more than enough to go around.
Up to 18 players can participate, but we are envisioning a difficulty level that can be cleared with around 6 players. Additionally, due to the change in the system, the higher tier focus will be on relieving the entry-level difficulty associated with doing Salvage, while providing content and rewards for level 99 characters.
Reward wise we will be preparing two kinds of equipment: revamped versions of the previously existing Salvage gear and new equipment.
Finally, as shown on the road map we will be adding this to the Test Server around September and plan on spending time for balancing/adjustments. With that said, actual implementation is still a bit off, but we are working our best so you can all try it out on the Test Server.
We will be releasing more specific information around the timing of Test Server implementation, so hang in there a bit and look forward to it! | |
| 08-14-2012 01:14 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| | Good morning!
As there are quite a few questions in regards to how the new unlocking system will work, I’d like to explain about it just a bit more.
Unlocking System Changes
As mentioned in my previous post, the first objective of this is to relieve the stress related to worrying about cells so that everyone can enjoy this content more. This is why we are only removing the aspect where you need to use items to unlock limitations, but the process of defeating monsters in order to remove the limitations will not change.
The trends for unlocking by each area and each monster will carry over, so think of it as the same flow as in the past when it comes to the order of defeating monsters and all the tricks to unlock Pathos efficiently.
Who Will Be Unlocked
I think the biggest concern at the moment is that by unlocking taking place at random, it will no longer be possible to formulate strategies around which jobs and players get unlocked first. The original Salvage had cases where certain areas would only yield a certain amount of cells, or if cells were not obtained at the right moment you would have to wait a while to get them again, making it so each cell was carefully used.
For the higher tier expansion, the direction will be changing quite a bit, and as long as you don’t have severely bad luck, we would like to make it so that it will be possible to fully unlock all limitations. With that said, we will be making adjustments to the number of monsters and the unlocking rate so that the pace of unlocking is not so slow that it makes it not possible to get stuff done.
*We are currently looking into a similar treasure chest that appears upon entry like the original Salvage, and we are thinking to make it so players can choose who will be unlocked. | |
| 08-22-2012 02:55 PM | | Okipuit | | Community Rep | |
| | I have some more information to share about the content of the Salvage higher-tier expansion.
After warping to the next floor, a lamp will be placed for voluntary Pathos unlocking
We will be making it possible so that each player can check the lamp and select a status to be unlocked that was unlocked in the floors prior. (In order to use the lamp, certain conditions must be fulfilled on the previous floor; however, we are planning to make the conditions easy to accomplish.)
The plan is not to make this the main focus of unlocking, but it is an alternative method if the necessary unlocks did not occur while defeating monsters and the aim is to secure a method for voluntary unlocking.
Unlocking Pathos as an element of strategy
The strategy and knowledge for which routes to take and which monsters to defeat in order to unlock statuses will be necessary just like they were for the existing Salvage content. While only the order will be random, the only difference is in the amount of monsters that are necessary to defeat, and we are planning to have a good amount of room to make use of the knowledge gained from the existing Salvage.
Jobs that can equip the rewards
Dancer and scholar cannot equip the rewards from the existing Salvage content. While this will not change, the revamped Salvage equipment as well as the new equipment will have dancer and scholar added to the list of jobs that can equip them. We will also be making adjustments so that the stats are compatible.
I think the easiest way to see how this content has changed would be to try it out first-hand on the Test Server and we are working hard to implement this. However, it seems like it is going to take some more time, so hang in there just a bit more. | |
| 08-23-2012 12:40 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| | Greetings!
Since the last post made by Okipuit there have been some questions. We will check and see if we can get some information, but keep in mind they are still working on all the details.
In the meantime, I just wanted to share another quick bit of information about unlocking Pathos.
We are actually planning to make it so when a Pathos is removed, it is displayed in everyone’s chat logs. We will be addressing this for both unlocking by defeating monsters as well as when the lamp is used.
When players use cells it is shown in the chat log, but players who are far away cannot see it. We feel that this will be much better to confirm and share the status of unlocking. | |
| 09-13-2012 02:14 PM | | Okipuit | | Community Rep | |
| | Greetings,
I have an announcement to make about the Salvage high-tier expansion that we will be adding to the Test Server.
During this week’s Test Server update, we will start off by only implementing Zhayolm Remnants.
(Same as before, the entrance will be the Guilded Gateway.)
At the current stage, adjustments for monster placement/strength, drop items, and pathos unlocking rate, have not been finalized. There is a possibility that we may change these elements moving forward. Also, we’ve made it so that notorious monsters that appear when completing certain requirements, do not spawn on the Test Server.
We would like to receive feedback focusing on the largest change from original Salvage, the pathos unlocking system.
To aid in your testing endeavors, we have setup the Test Server as stated below:
It will be possible to enter solo.
When checking the Guilded Gateway, you will receive a Remnants Permit, so it will be possible to participate without obtaining the key item in advance.
(Each member who wishes to participate will need to obtain the key item via the above method.)
There will be no cool-down time between entry.
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 | 10-12-2012 04:35 AM | | Gildrein | | Community Rep |  |
| | [dev1137] Salvage Battlefield Expansion
* The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
This battlefield expansion is aimed at seasoned adventurers and many of the rules are based on those of previous Salvage content. The method by which Pathos of Alzadaal restrictions can be removed, however, has been modified.
Differences from Previous Salvage Content
Entry is restricted to adventurers level 85 and above.
Pathos of Alzadaal restrictions may no longer be removed by imbued items, but by the following methods: - Defeating certain monsters in specified areas will randomly remove a Pathos of Alzadaal restriction from participants.
- Examining the Runic Lamps within each remnant will allow players to remove restrictions of their choice.
* Runic Lamps will be available near remnant entrances and teleport exits.
* The chance for removing restrictions, and which monsters' defeat are capable of removing restrictions, are still under development.
Test Server Settings Participants may enter battlefields alone.
Remnants Permits will not be required for entry.
No time restrictions will be placed on battlefield reentry.
Only the Zhaylom and Arrapago Remnants are available for entry at present.
The placement and strength of enemies, as well as items obtainable, may differ from the release version.
Boss enemies are still under development, and will be replaced with substitute enemies.
Notorious monsters that only spawn under certain conditions will not be introduced.
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