Gay Rights Abroad

You're cute.

That's kinda what we were getting at earlier. Oppression is a subjective experience per individual. However, we're in an unfortunate case where it is within a widespread and targeted social structure. Everyone is going to react and survive it differently. Just try not to misunderstand those of us that work to the same ends, but still feel and act differently upon it.

Actually I'd have to more or less agree with his description of what oppression feels like..

But by all means, let's hear yours.

You will never admit that people can understand what it feels like. You should just admit that already and stop lying to us.

God damn, what the hell is the point of this pissing contest right now anyway? If it's to see who's right, nobody's going to *** win.

Pardon my french

I have real-life friends and I have people I respect here whom I choose as representative of a specific viewpoint. Every experience I have with them culminates into my opinion as a whole. I am not naive enough to believe that any ONE person can speak for an entire demographic, all with varying opinions. I am not one to instantly change my viewpoint because of a bad experience, simply because humans will be humans. We are selfish, we want everyone to see it our way.

The difference between straight people and the LGBT is merely sexual preference (or lack thereof), and the way they are treated by society. Further than that, we are all human. Once people can look past whether my buddy sleeps with women or men, there will be progress.

But this oppression, this discrimination will never truly end. Some will always be subjected to the opinions of bigotry, just like racism still exists today.

You're right, that is not something I'm going to admit because there is no possible way that you understand every single gay person's experience in this world as a marginalized individual. You can try, in fact, most would want you to try. It's not a bad thing or shortcoming that you aren't able to, it just is.

It's page 10.. It's amazing the thread is even still going at this point.. By page 2 any stipulations the OP put on the topic are just out the window. Conversations evolve and that can't be stopped.

Personal attacks here arn't really accomplishing anything. People in this forum claim you don't need to experience oppression to understand it...

...well part of understanding oppression is understanding what someone has/may have gone through. Personal attacks just further the aggression, and accomplish nothing.

Different LGBT have gone through different life experiences. And the victim card is very offensive because some are victims.

There are LGBT who have been diagnosed with HIV, experienced brutal attacks, had partners/boyfriends killed, etc... you can't really understand that reading a text book or movie.

You understand that by experiencing it, and getting to know those who have suffered such events.

In Boston/NY, when there are two guys holding hands, there's usually not a big deal, but in Hong Kong, everyone would look at you. A lot of my friends in Hong Kong say that they wouldn't feel "safe" to hold hands in public. Strangely though, for lesbians in Hong Kong there doesn't seem to be as big of an issue. As for gay rights, all I know is that there are no anti-discrimination laws and that was what I read online.

I hear that it's pretty bad in Korea. In Japan, there's a lot of pressure from society for all men to fit into the masculine norms (i.e. marry women and have kids) and left many gays from Japanese to migrate abroad, particularly to the States; my friend who's a graduate student has actually been doing research on it.

Also, somewhat unsure why you would be more concerned about gay rights in "England/Germany/Europe"...

And you do?

Get over yourself already.

Man, you keep making me laugh and laugh.

No, but I understand my experience as an oppressed individual. Make sense?

I personally don't see *sincere indifference* (the main issue brought up earlier) to race or sexuality issues as being indicative of hidden bigotry, or subconscious bias towards one's own group. I honestly think sincere indifference is progressive and that as a world culture we are working towards a degree of parity.

Does everyone have to fully understand what others experience? Insofar as that, is it possible for anyone to truly understand the life experiences of others without having lived their lives or events similarly? No--it's unfortunately not. However there is the human capacity of empathy and understanding, which I embrace.

Not everyone is fully capable of empathy, and some will seemingly never be rid of their preconceptions, and having empathic peers will never ever remedy traumatic experiences already endured anyhow. And in terms of activism, there will likely never be a true level of parity in our lifetimes, so activism for causes will likely always be warranted. However, in my view, at least having reasonable people be sincerely indifferent to my own identity (or anyone's ethnic/sexual/religious/able-disabled status) for whatever reasons for them, means a lot to me and I think that's the best possible future for people.

EXACTLY! This is what puzzles me the most, I have plenty of gay friends and I treat them no differently from anyone else, which is exactly what the gay community are campaigning for in the first place; to be treated equally as everyone else.

I see Min and Sylow telling us that their arguments do not represent the LGBT community, yet the arguments that they don't like from non LGBT members somehow represent the entire population.

I see posts from them telling me I should sympathise and treat them as victims, recognise them as being different and that I should recognise my gay friends as being different.

Given the context of the discussion.. No.. It doesn't make any sense at all...

You keep seesawing with the argument of oppression and how it feels.. First it's you can't understand what oppression feels like, then it's you can't possibly understand what gay oppression feels like, then you can't possibly understand every single gay person's oppression and now we're to your personal oppression..

I don't need to understand your oppression at a personal level, nor do I need to understand every single person's unique situation. I understand you're oppressed, and I don't need to suffer with you in order to help you.

What the hell is the big deal?

what

Well, nobody said you had to. That's part of the point.

Actually you did in so many words.. Us straight people are not allowed to say anything short of completely positive things because we can't understand the way oppression feels..

Well, I'm gonna take a break for a bit. Hopefully we can marginally come to terms with each other, or at least some sort of hazy mutual understanding of one another. Until then, have some hugs and gummy peach rings.

What they are trying to say, I THINK, is that you should appreciate someone's individuality without erasing it. There is a fine line between acceptance into popular culture, and erasing every trace of the original culture. Part of acceptance includes recognition.

I don't always see eye to eye with other LGBT on FFXIAH on MANY topics, but I try to say "ok i grew up differently I live in a different place." I, too, understand where they are coming from. I've gone through my life experiences, as I'm sure Minjo and Sylow have. So I understand its ignorant for me to assume I understand them 100%. I can only base those on my own personal experiences and those around me.

Gays, lesbians, drag queens, trans- all go through different discrimination outside and inside the community

No, I've never said or implied that.

What I have said is that if a LGBTQ individual is going to tell you about their experience as an LGBTQ individual, you should, if interested, listen.

ITT we backpedal and rewrite history.

You implied that asking not be discriminated against in the workplace for being gay was special treatment. Don't feign confusion over why people somehow took that the wrong way.