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Embrava Nerf NNI
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1925
By Odin.Sawtelle 2012-11-12 18:13:08
I personally used a cor for my group. merc kris+ WF/Last stand. He did pretty well at getting good rolls. He would either just randomly roll when we ported up and hope to hit lucky, or try to get a 10 and Snake eye and 11 for us after porting. Again, one of those jobs that you "can use" but isn't ideal. Cor is going to have serious survivability issues post Embrava nerf though.
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-11-12 18:15:20
You can get people if you double up on them. For example, if one member runs away from you rolling, you can chase them down with a double up with them in range and they still get the roll.
*edit* not advocating COR for Nyzul in any way, just in response to sylow.
At that point, people end up with gimped rolls.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-11-12 18:16:02
Probably not ideal:
6 Hit TP -
6 Hit Drakes -
By emerle 2012-11-12 18:16:29
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »Why are you extrapolating my statement to nude all 19 jobs when were talking about DD? I thought it was already trivial to not include mages in the pool. Do I really have to spell everything out? No, I'm just being an ***. Just annoys me when people toss drg in the dirt and act like using it is a plague on any group. But seriously, just how far do you think the average geared drg is behind the average geared DD to put drg in the back of the bus unilaterally. Just my experience has shown drg to be pretty on par with other dds especially in situations like NNI. I'd like to know just how removed my experience is from reality.
The only time a DRG will be on par with other DDs is if the DRG is a mythic weapon DRG which puts it above most other DDs. However, even a 99 Gungir DRG will far behind a 85-90 Ukon or 85-90 Masa with all other gear being equally as good for each job.
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-11-12 18:33:26
Yeah, relic DRG is worse than DNC and PUP and both of those jobs bring a lot more to the table.
It probably beats THF though, but THF brings Treasure Hunter. Sadly for THF, RNG can also bring TH to the one fight in NNI where it matters, and RNG does a lot more damage (On the other hand, likely requires more support).
And this is assuming DRG/SAM. I didn't bother recalcualting for DRG/Mage. DRG/Mage is immortal, but so are DNC and PUP.
I didn't bother including WF or skillchain damage for DNC or trying to include the 9k damage it can throw out every 90 seconds. Both of these would put it even further ahead.
I just realized I didn't exclude NNI gear for PUP, but oh well. PUP still offers tremendous benefits over bringing a DRG.
Bismarck.Helel
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1335
By Bismarck.Helel 2012-11-12 19:03:15
I'm not sure I would discredit COR that easily. A good COR who has done legion a number of times will know how to roll quickly and efficiently. Anything over 5, simply snake eye + double-up, as long as you're not rolling into an unlucky roll obviously (or out of a lucky one, i.e. tactician's). Random deal and wild card can reset phantom roll timer. I think tactician's roll would be worth having as you spend so much time running around. COR can do some pretty nice damage too.
If I still needed nyzul gear I'd probably try it out for a few runs at least (post-update).
Ragnarok.Rezeak
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Ragnarok.Rezeak 2012-11-12 19:23:13
In my opinion, DRG is a solid DD in NNI and even more so with loss of regain.
In a case of DD X 4 SCH BRD
On fodder in most cases 60-80% of the time DRG can Jump > WS and a mob is pretty much dead or dead meaning there kill time is more than fast enough on fodder floors.
As for boss floors it definitely will be lacking vs say a DRK WAR or SAM but least it has angon.
With that said, i have never seen a DNC or PUP come close to what a WAR DRK or SAM can do but i have seen DRGs do it and without the advantage of Regain that gap will close a little (not vs SAM tho).
That said an below-average SAM >>> average DRG because at the end of the day most DRGs suck cause it's a hard job to perform well on and there aren't any real good examples to go on. But the few OCD DRGs I have seen can definitely hold there own in NNI.
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Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-11-12 19:53:52
A lot of this discussion is sort of textbook, because most of it hinges on having a Derpderpderp BRD (much rarer than SCH) and decent DDs.
Everyone with these things is extremely likely to already have Nyzizzle completed at this point. The people who are selling NNI clears now will likely continue to have no trouble completing it after the update if they're a group worth buying from now.
So I guess the earlier question of "What's a good strategy for gimps?" is pretty valid.
Answer: Prayer + Shooting for 80.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 370
By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-11-12 21:20:45
You can get people if you double up on them. For example, if one member runs away from you rolling, you can chase them down with a double up with them in range and they still get the roll.
*edit* not advocating COR for Nyzul in any way, just in response to sylow.
At that point, people end up with gimped rolls.
This is not necessarily true. Take Tactician's roll for example, Lucky number is 5, you could roll a five on all party members except the one who took off early. Chase that dude down and give him and yourself plus anyone that happened to run in the same direction an XI.
But hey at the same time, it's all based on luck and everyone could in fact get gimped rolls.
Ragnarok.Ecaroh
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 57
By Ragnarok.Ecaroh 2012-11-13 08:11:39
The only thing wrong with DRG in NNI is that thier "duck" (when not dead) sits sleeping at the runic pole beside the SCH :P
I would know. My group uses DRG, Sam, BLU, WAR 2x SCH.
and im one of the pole dancing SCHs, playing patty-cake with the Wyvern, wishing I could cast spells on it to get it to go back to work.
PS The funniest thing is that our groups only 100 clear so far was when our SAM was out and we took in a WF Cor FTH of it.
Of course I thought I was going to get lucky and go MNK for once, but nope, back to pole dancing for me.
Eca
Siren.Ihm
VIP
サーバ: Siren
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Posts: 688
By Siren.Ihm 2012-11-13 08:48:34
The only thing wrong with DRG in NNI is that thier "duck" (when not dead) sits sleeping at the runic pole beside the SCH :P
I would know. My group uses DRG, Sam, BLU, WAR 2x SCH.
and im one of the pole dancing SCHs, playing patty-cake with the Wyvern, wishing I could cast spells on it to get it to go back to work.
PS The funniest thing is that our groups only 100 clear so far was when our SAM was out and we took in a WF Cor FTH of it.
Of course I thought I was going to get lucky and go MNK for once, but nope, back to pole dancing for me.
Eca
Your DRG should learn what Spirit Link does.
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Ragnarok.Zeromega
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 400
By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2012-11-13 08:53:53
you can clear with any dd job really, as long as the other 3 dds can pick up the slack
drk and war are top for versatility
sam can be good if you play like a sam and not a war (sc on nms to wreck them fast)
mnk can he a godsend on the pdt custard (formless strikes) aswell as all the skulls or when you need to 2hr on floor 100 when you get there and see your 1 minute warning
if your first 3 dds are good from those above, then the 4th could be anything that can solo fodder with regen
my group rotates 4 apoc drks(3 with rag), all with war, a vere mnk and a few amano sams, and have cleared with everything from a bst to thf
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Asura.Aikchan 2012-11-13 09:12:16
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »you can clear with any dd job really, as long as the other 3 dds can pick up the slack
drk and war are top for versatility
sam can be good if you play like a sam and not a war (sc on nms to wreck them fast)
mnk can he a godsend on the pdt custard (formless strikes) aswell as all the skulls or when you need to 2hr on floor 100 when you get there and see your 1 minute warning
if your first 3 dds are good from those above, then the 4th could be anything that can solo fodder with regen
my group rotates 4 apoc drks(3 with rag), all with war, a vere mnk and a few amano sams, and have cleared with everything from a bst to thf
sadly DRK and WAR are "good" coz have some REGAIN.. so after embrava nerf, that will change if ppl will still aim to floor 100
Ragnarok.Zeromega
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 400
By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2012-11-13 09:15:19
drk will still be top because of reso (or apoc) and 3/4 of the time will be at haste cap
war will still be able to fell cleave all floors and ms reso on 100 floor for 20%~
regain loss is nothing with a good xhit and ws set
Ragnarok.Fasaga
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 192
By Ragnarok.Fasaga 2012-11-13 09:36:43
When does the embrava nerf take effect?
Ragnarok.Zeromega
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 400
By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2012-11-13 09:40:31
unannounced due to testing stages, probably wont be until its actually released
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Asura.Aikchan 2012-11-13 09:48:53
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »regain loss is nothing with a good xhit and ws set
ya, when you have fanatics up. go Soul Eater, Last Resort, Berserk/Warcry... Not the same Engage WS mob = dead, that engage, wait for 3-4 atk rounds, then ws.
Ragnarok.Zeromega
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 400
By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2012-11-13 09:50:05
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »regain loss is nothing with a good xhit and ws set
ya, when you have fanatics up. go Soul Eater, Last Resort, Berserk/Warcry... clearly why you have no nni gear
Ragnarok.Fasaga
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 192
By Ragnarok.Fasaga 2012-11-13 10:06:21
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »unannounced due to testing stages, probably wont be until its actually released alex told me it was next week and I got nervous...
Ragnarok.Zeromega
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 400
By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2012-11-13 10:11:05
too many "i shouldnt say that" comments come to mind to that...
dont worry, youd know
Ragnarok.Fasaga
サーバ: Ragnarok
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Posts: 192
By Ragnarok.Fasaga 2012-11-13 10:15:49
get off my **** haha
Ragnarok.Zeromega
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 400
By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2012-11-13 10:24:21
tell him not to lose a minute to gears on 98
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 209
By Ragnarok.Legendarycloud 2012-11-13 11:55:01
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »tell him not to lose a minute to gears on 98
LOL, yeah seriously haha.
But according to SE's schedule of having an update per month as of late, I would predict the embrava nerf to be happening this month. Maybe as soon as a week or so from now.
No tags shall be spared! :D
Cerberus.Detzu
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 869
By Cerberus.Detzu 2012-11-13 12:06:50
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »you can clear with any dd job really, as long as the other 3 dds can pick up the slack
drk and war are top for versatility
sam can be good if you play like a sam and not a war (sc on nms to wreck them fast)
mnk can he a godsend on the pdt custard (formless strikes) aswell as all the skulls or when you need to 2hr on floor 100 when you get there and see your 1 minute warning
if your first 3 dds are good from those above, then the 4th could be anything that can solo fodder with regen
my group rotates 4 apoc drks(3 with rag), all with war, a vere mnk and a few amano sams, and have cleared with everything from a bst to thf
sadly DRK and WAR are "good" coz have some REGAIN.. so after embrava nerf, that will change if ppl will still aim to floor 100
DRK and WAR are good because of regain? A good DRK barely need cures, leaving the healer for the DDs who will die for no reason.
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Cerberus.Celll
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 79
By Cerberus.Celll 2012-11-19 05:57:19
I've seen BLU do some really nice numbers in NNI. Just for giggles new set up will be blu x4 SCH and BRD.
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Shiva.Vosslerr 2012-12-13 07:01:12
DRG needs a mythic to be competitive with other DDs. Versus the relatively weak enemies yo find in NNI, and especially /Mage, I doubt it would outperform DNC. I don't even think it would outperform THF.
False. Might want to come to Shiva and parse some of our relic DRGs. I think they do pretty well. Our group has a member that enjoys DRG, noticed no difference from normal runs on NNI. I'm sure having an large self heal is nice too. /mage i don't think would work though. Its not a DRK or WAR of course but saying you don't think it would outperform thf.. Pretty ludicris statement. DNC might be fun to parse against.
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Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
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Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-12-13 07:02:50
DRG needs a Mythic to be competitive with other DDs.
サーバ: Shiva
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By Shiva.Vosslerr 2012-12-13 07:09:40
You said THF "might" outdo a DRG. I doubt.
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-12-13 07:11:25
Then don't quote the whole post and put "False." DRG sucks without mythic, deal with it.
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-12-13 07:13:30
And don't give me this *** "Well it's passable as a DD in NNI!"
The first NA group (that I know of) to successfully clear NNI had a PUP.
Curious of what peoples thoughts are to rebuild statics as i am thinking Brd Sch Blu Blu Sam Mnk. Since embrava will be refresh now could have sch embrava on say last 5min or just when prior to up up or landing on 100 if you have the time. that will benifet blu alot specialy with blu 2hr being able to self sc now on FL100, having blu with constant mp would take the place of a DD having constant tp since no regain from embrava there will be less running up and 1 shotting mobs on Floors such as all enemenys etc where as blu can spam spells n run of with less delay of there own refresh plus brd. Would like to hear others thoughts and plans of how to conquer this nerf w/o bein affected by the Tp loss from embrava
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