The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-03-09 08:31:06  
Any luck with that Sim?
 Lakshmi.Likos
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By Lakshmi.Likos 2018-03-09 11:57:53  
Finally managed to get Valorous mail last night; trying to decide if it's good enough to be in my low-mid WS set or if I should be using AF+3 body until I can get a better augment:
tp: ItemSet 357203

ws:ItemSet 357204

mantle: str+30 acc/att+20 da+10
valorous: dex+7 acc+9 att+15 DA+5

Any other suggestions are welcome.
 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2018-03-09 13:35:16  
Lakshmi.Likos said: »
Finally managed to get Valorous mail last night; trying to decide if it's good enough to be in my low-mid WS set or if I should be using AF+3 body until I can get a better augment:
tp: ItemSet 357203

ws:ItemSet 357204

mantle: str+30 acc/att+20 da+10
valorous: dex+7 acc+9 att+15 DA+5

Any other suggestions are welcome.

With the amount of DA you are already using keep Pummeler's Lorica for the STR, ACC, and ATK. Additionally, Flamma Gambieras +2 should preform better as well (for the STR).
[+]
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-03-09 14:02:56  
In all honesty, I only use Val for TP and the Augments MUST have at least 30 Acc or I’m not keeping lol. My Val Body has STR9 Acc 32 Attack 27 DA +3 but still sitting I think at 95% DA? So an extra 2% would only be marginally better.

Ofc there’s DM Augments but that’s a different pile of crap lol
[+]
 Lakshmi.Likos
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By Lakshmi.Likos 2018-03-09 15:24:24  
Thanks for the advice!

I've been considering making a Ragnarok lately, and even started farming currency, but I'm not completely sold on it. I know there was the sentiment going around that Montante +1 and Raetic Algol were equal or better than Ragnarok in terms of damage output. Is that still the case? Would I be better off just using Monta when I have enough ACC for it, and Raetic when I don't?

Also, is Seething really better than knobkerrie for Resolution?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-03-09 16:01:42  
It should be a bit better on WAR, especially since it's an obvious accuracy swap.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-09 16:07:19  
Lakshmi.Likos said: »
Also, is Seething really better than knobkerrie for Resolution?

Why wouldn't it be?
 Lakshmi.Likos
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By Lakshmi.Likos 2018-03-09 16:42:43  
I'm just a little surprised that 5 str (assuming your unity is in 1st) would be better than +23 att and 6% WSD on a WS. You all know better than me though.

-of course, +acc too in situations where you'd need it
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-03-09 16:49:07  
Seething +1 gives 13 attack, so the ATK difference is only 10.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-03-09 17:28:05  
Valefor.Yandaime said: »
Any luck with that Sim?
workin on it between work, classes and playing other games.
[+]
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-09 18:26:18  
Lakshmi.Likos said: »
I'm just a little surprised that 5 str (assuming your unity is in 1st) would be better than +23 att and 6% WSD on a WS. You all know better than me though.

-of course, +acc too in situations where you'd need it

It's not +23 atk it's +10

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Seeth._Bomblet_%2B1

Seething +1 is
+13 Acc
+13 Atk (+16.75 counting STR)
+5 STR

So it's just +10 Attack and +6% WSD.

WSD only applies to the first hit and Resolution's fTP bonus carries to all hits. A decently geared WAR will have an average Reso of greater then six hits, meaning the +6% WSD is only being applied to 1/6 of the hits at best. This fact makes WSD not very effective for Resolution or other WS's like it.

This is about what a Reso set looks like for WAR.

ItemSet 342760

There is current debate around Lustrado +1 feet and the new Relic +3 head, this is largely a result of Lustrado being godly for pure STR and tuned sets over saturating all the normal +DPS stats.
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 Lakshmi.Likos
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By Lakshmi.Likos 2018-03-09 20:26:00  
I was looking at the front page, and it says path D for body legs and hands. I get the legs and hands, but why is body path D better than path A with Utu grip?
 Cerberus.Mrkillface
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By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2018-03-09 22:15:38  
Probably because the STP allows you to use less STP in your TP set.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-03-09 22:41:33  
Or cause a little more overflow for the subsequent WS. Either way, the difference is small enough to where I would want to use a simulation to judge it a bit better.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-10 07:12:08  
It's for the extra Store TP for less TP needed in TP set. 12 DEX would be +1.2 WSC which is pretty small.

Montant +1 makes Reso spam builds piss easy, Ragnarok requires you to squeeze out Store TP and Raetic is in the middle. So for my Montante +1 I'm over-TPing but for the other two I'm just hitting the requirements.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-03-10 19:14:34  
what foods do people want added?
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By Afania 2018-03-11 08:08:47  
Lakshmi.Likos said: »
and Raetic when I don't?

If you roll with bigger group, It's also extremely strong with embrava+refresh. I've seen NQ raetic WAR with embrava+refresh spiked over 8.2k dps on WoC scoreboard pre-bracelet. Most well geared REMA DD would struggle to hit 5k mark, the gap is quite noticable. Imagine how'd HQ do.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-11 13:43:00  
Don't need embrava + refresh for Raetic to crush things, you shouldn't be running out of MP for a few minutes which is more then enough for melee zergs. Done a ***ton of WoC's with Raetic GS and never ran out of MP, though I sometimes would get down to 25% remaining.

Capped gear + magic haste with Hasso up we get a 102 delay for NQ Raetic, which is 1.7 seconds per attack round. At 550MP we have a 27MP/round drain. With 5 Refresh vorseals and blessings we get 10MP every 3 seconds returned. We don't lose MP during WS time, only during actual attack rounds so that 10MP/tick refresh ends up stretching the MP pool to last a few minutes.

Now RUN and DRK on the other hand need heavier refresh because their blowing through 50+ MP a round.
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 Asura.Darian
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By Asura.Darian 2018-03-12 08:53:51  
What about sneaking acro back into a TP set?

Could go from

Emicho Body Hands +1
Acc 126 Attack 37 DA 6 Store TP 7

To
Lorica +3 + maxed acro gauntlets
Acc 97 Attack 117 DA 7 Store TP 10
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By Taint 2018-03-12 09:18:46  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Don't need embrava + refresh for Raetic to crush things, you shouldn't be running out of MP for a few minutes which is more then enough for melee zergs. Done a ***ton of WoC's with Raetic GS and never ran out of MP, though I sometimes would get down to 25% remaining.

Capped gear + magic haste with Hasso up we get a 102 delay for NQ Raetic, which is 1.7 seconds per attack round. At 550MP we have a 27MP/round drain. With 5 Refresh vorseals and blessings we get 10MP every 3 seconds returned. We don't lose MP during WS time, only during actual attack rounds so that 10MP/tick refresh ends up stretching the MP pool to last a few minutes.

Now RUN and DRK on the other hand need heavier refresh because their blowing through 50+ MP a round.


Its 5% of max MP or 5% of remaining MP? 5% of max doesn't add up to my parses.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-12 09:30:00  
5% of max, been tested and verified. At 550mp it's a 27% chance at a free swing.
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By geigei 2018-03-12 09:44:58  
Time to change dex augm on cape to 80mp.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-13 20:25:27  
Ok got the Relic +3 head and this ***is stupid. Just derping around in Zi'Tah with trusts (so capped attack basically), getting 30K on Upheaval's first hit. Savage is giving me 37~40K on it's first hit. Both were near the 3K actual TP mark. Metatron Torment giving a respectable 18~20K. Chango WAR is likely to now be competitive with Resolution Monte +1. Raetic probably still wins inside escha though, unless the fight is longer then a few minutes.

SE really been favoring high fTP single hit WS's lately over the copy fTP WS's.

For record it's 59% WSD on Upheaval / MT / ect.. and 70% on Savage Blade.
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 Ragnarok.Camlann
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By Ragnarok.Camlann 2018-03-14 06:56:49  
geigei said: »
Time to change dex augm on cape to 80mp.

Already got my Cichol with MP instead of DEX. Would be fun to Reso smash zerg something.

Asura.Saevel said: »
5% of max, been tested and verified. At 550mp it's a 27% chance at a free swing.

Anyone know how the STP part of the Raetic Algol +1 works?
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-03-14 08:30:31  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Ok got the Relic +3 head and this ***is stupid. Just derping around in Zi'Tah with trusts (so capped attack basically), getting 30K on Upheaval's first hit. Savage is giving me 37~40K on it's first hit. Both were near the 3K actual TP mark. Metatron Torment giving a respectable 18~20K. Chango WAR is likely to now be competitive with Resolution Monte +1. Raetic probably still wins inside escha though, unless the fight is longer then a few minutes.

SE really been favoring high fTP single hit WS's lately over the copy fTP WS's.

For record it's 59% WSD on Upheaval / MT / ect.. and 70% on Savage Blade.

Was going to comment on this earlier that Chango Upheaval @1250+ TP was showing a higher WS Average (32k on Spreadsheet) VS Reso’s 30k but I didn’t wanna spark any sort of backlash. Also found where I screwed up earlier and Agoge Head does NOT beat Flamma for Resolution just like you were saying.

Still waiting for the sim but I think the sheets work (as long as all values are correct).
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-14 09:24:22  
Valefor.Yandaime said: »
Was going to comment on this earlier that Chango Upheaval @1250+ TP was showing a higher WS Average (32k on Spreadsheet) VS Reso’s 30k but I didn’t wanna spark any sort of backlash.

It depends heavily on gear and buffs, most people aren't using the right ones when doing comparisons. Previously Chango Upheaval spam wasn't as good as Monte +1 Resolution spam, now it's far more murkier and I'll explain why.

Chango under 2K WS TP relies on Multi-Attack with a sprinkle of WSD (when useful), post 2K it switches regime into WSD and recent gear really has is skyrocketing. Resolution on the other hand doesn't change regimes and instead has near linear power growth with WS TP. Due to TP Bonus existing you want to WS as fast as possible, quantity is a virtue here. That means Chango Upheaval @2K WS TP (1250 actual TP) has a slower WS cycle rate then Monte +1 @1000 actual TP. So while you can get averages that are the same or slightly higher, the total number will be lower. The big question here is, how much lower and does that justify the benefit of SC and utility that Chango brings. For myself that's usually yes but if I'm about to Warcry zerg something down with pure DPS I switch to Monte +1.

So like everything WAR related, use the right tool for the right job, this job isn't about "One Weapon to Rule Them All". Chango is a beast when you mix King's Justice and Upheaval in various configurations.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2018-03-14 11:10:38  
I’m curious on what your thoughts are on agoge cuisses +2/3 are?

Seems like it would be bis if you don’t need stp from odyssean due to near 100% +10/11% damage boost on double attack
 Asura.Patb
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By Asura.Patb 2018-03-14 12:07:21  
Saevel, I'm missing where you get the last 5%-10% of WSD for your gear for upheaval/savage blade.
I get the 10% from head,body,back, 7% from feet, 2% from earring, 6% from ammo, brings it to 45%, Do you just have very very good augments for hands/legs slots? Or am I missing another non augmented piece.
 Asura.Brennski
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By Asura.Brennski 2018-03-14 12:12:02  
Ody hands have a base 2% on them so say you get 5% on Hands thats 7%
Legs can get 5% thats 12% so 57% for Upheaval.

Reikiko is 4% for Savage Blade.
blurred shield +1 is another 7%.
for 11% so 68% for Savage Blade

Add in 3% from WAR 1200 Gift?
 Asura.Patb
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By Asura.Patb 2018-03-14 12:52:33  
Ahhh, ody hands, I'll have to make some of those then.
Thanks Brennski
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