The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By Spaitin 2020-03-10 02:57:37  
Salifi belt is amazing. lugra earring is kinda nuts. 16 of each attribute + 3 DA... Wonder if the second 8 stat is night time only. Think that 9 haste will actually let you change up your Hja hybrid a bit. Gelatinous ring +1 is now a top tier upheaval ring lol.
 Bahamut.Yiazmat
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By Bahamut.Yiazmat 2020-03-14 06:19:37  
Which ring did you replace with gela +1 r15?
Niq still got the quad att (pretty low proc tho) and regal got the +20 attack.
The +5 Vit might be better than Niq ?
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-03-14 09:16:04  
Just checked in in the sheets and I’m getting the same result as Spaitin. It’s edging out against Epaminonda Ring. Not beating Niqmaddu though, no. Looks like the BiS is now Niqmaddu and Gelatinous Ring +1 Aug.

Also the differences are very close, only 114-200 Damage on the WS Average depending on what buffs you plug in so if you’re reluctant to give up on Regal or want to conserve space or w/e, you likely wont miss it after TP Overflows and stray MA Procs etc etc.

Unless Spaitin was getting a blowout result?

I’m also getting Lugra Aug (Night) at just barely behind Thrud (10 Damage, basically tied) but not overtaking Moonshade any time soon. So definitely a 3000 TP Piece for Upheaval.

Didn’t check anything else yet though.
 Bahamut.Yiazmat
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By Bahamut.Yiazmat 2020-03-14 09:29:48  
Ill try once ill r15 the ring, might be better for low acc
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By Spaitin 2020-03-14 13:11:17  
Bahamut.Yiazmat said: »
Which ring did you replace with gela +1 r15?
On upheaval Gela replaces kari/epa/regal. basically, regal is only a good choice if you need acc. so depends on your augmented pieces.
I have niq/gela being the overall best DPS ring combo. Gela is pretty close to epa/kari+1/regal, but still ahead of both of them. id use regal over gela IF you are worried about acc. Gela makes you more durable and stops your HP flux from being as extreme. I think gela is overall the best second ring to use besides niq. Gela is the best ring for using lycurgos by a mile though. even beating out niq. Unmoving +1 is a great swap for lycurgos. Salifi overtakes ioskeha as best waist piece.

IMO ring choice for upheaval is down to 2 rings. Niq is the king ring so i dont really consider it a choice. Regal if you want more acc and gela if you want more DPS/HP/Defense.

Lugra is for sure my 3k TP swap for moonshade on perhaps all WS now. Might use metamorph instead of regal for spiral. idk.
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By Spaitin 2020-03-14 14:04:27  
ItemSet 367495

Something like this is ideal upheaval dmg now. Thrudd instead of brutal. or lugra is just fine tbh. at 3k tp i am using lugra over moonshade. if using lycurgos, unmoving collar will help keep your WS HP up a bit higher.

ItemSet 366560

THis for reso. orb +1 instead of seething, although who knows what seething looks like after it gets augmented.

Lugra might beat out thrud for impulse actually. Will have to check into that.
 Asura.Crowned
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By Asura.Crowned 2020-03-14 14:24:23  
You have 15 vit on gelat ring beating out 4 wsd on HQ karieyh?
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By Spaitin 2020-03-14 14:26:50  
yes, as yan already said. it is beating out the 5 wsd that epa does as well.
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-03-14 16:03:24  
Spaitin said: »
yes, as yan already said. it is beating out the 5 wsd that epa does as well.


How close is it to Regal Ring? I actually use it over Epa.
10 STR, 10 VIT, 10 DEX (Utu Grip taken into account)

What is the overall gain in comparison to an upgraded Gel Ring (15 VIT vs 10 STR/DEX/VIT?)
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By Spaitin 2020-03-14 16:07:10  
Read a little farther back. already answered.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-03-14 16:12:33  
Spaitin said: »
Read a little farther back. already answered.
Spaitin said: »
Bahamut.Yiazmat said: »
Which ring did you replace with gela +1 r15?
On upheaval Gela replaces kari/epa/regal. basically, regal is only a good choice if you need acc. so depends on your augmented pieces.
I have niq/gela being the overall best DPS ring combo. Gela is pretty close to epa/kari+1/regal, but still ahead of both of them. id use regal over gela IF you are worried about acc. Gela makes you more durable and stops your HP flux from being as extreme. I think gela is overall the best second ring to use besides niq. Gela is the best ring for using lycurgos by a mile though. even beating out niq. Unmoving +1 is a great swap for lycurgos. Salifi overtakes ioskeha as best waist piece.

IMO ring choice for upheaval is down to 2 rings. Niq is the king ring so i dont really consider it a choice. Regal if you want more acc and gela if you want more DPS/HP/Defense.

Lugra is for sure my 3k TP swap for moonshade on perhaps all WS now. Might use metamorph instead of regal for spiral. idk.

I was wondering if you had numbers? I mean I believe you and all, but I'd like to see values if you happen to have them. Just curious. At the moment it really sounds like a side grade, and I'd be better off prioritizing other stuff first.
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By Spaitin 2020-03-14 16:15:36  
I dont have them anymore. easy to do yourself. just do the math for each WS total with each item. Remember that Epa is going to be like 18-30 TP less. Total difference is negligible, rings are just not a particularly strong slot for dmg. When that happens go for things they offer outside of damage. like acc/attack/hp/pdt etc.

Also yan already gave you the number difference on the items.
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By SimonSes 2020-03-14 16:18:24  
The dps gain is almost non existing (its a matter of 3-4 base damage on something that already has probably at least 600 base, so not even a 1% and thats assuming STR on Regal gives 0 fSTR). Its more of a choice between attack/acc on Regal vs hp/def/pdt on Gel.
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By Spaitin 2020-03-14 16:35:09  
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
I'd be better off prioritizing other stuff first.
Id prioritize Sailfi and Lugra tbh.
SimonSes said: »
STR on Regal gives 0 fSTR).
Upheaval only gets fSTR on weak stuff. anything t2 or higher i doubt it. Doubt you even get it on t1 tbh. Impulse/reso/dec/kings etc you probably get some fStr.
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By SimonSes 2020-03-14 17:16:33  
Spaitin said: »
Upheaval only gets fSTR on weak stuff. anything t2 or higher i doubt it. Doubt you even get it on t1 tbh. Impulse/reso/dec/kings etc you probably get some fStr.

I know that's why I assumed it gives 0 :)
 
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By 2020-03-14 18:45:34
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By Spaitin 2020-03-14 20:17:10  
After playing around with it. I have Gel winning at all TP values over all the other options. Epa edges it out slightly if you hold to 3k TP. But in a spam gel wins at around 80-190 dmg. This is with factoring in the 18 TP loss from epa and assuming TP scales linearly between 1-2k and 2k-3k. I actually have regal and kari Hq winning in a spam over epa by very small margins. Double checking my math again, but in a spam epa appears to be the worst of the 4 main weapon skill rings. Over 2k it looks like that 18 TP translates into 302 damage loss from epa.

Need to keep checking my math. but as i have it.

Gel > Kari Hq > Regal = Kari Nq > Epa > Titan Ring +1 for DPS. Regal is better below 1800 total TP, kari is better above 1800. Epa is only a TINY bit above titan ring +1 lol. If the -10 STP messes with your X-hit then not wearing the ring is a big improvement over wearing it. As in, if it adds a an attack round to your build, then no ring is better than wearing it. I kind of find epa to be a trap tbh. At best it is competitive with other rings, at worst it is a pretty big dps dump.

Ill have to recheck it on other WS like Spiral/impulse etc.
** I no longer recommend Epa for any WS on war. Unless you can guarantee certain levels of sam roll, it can be a large hit to DPS. You can literally end up in situations where having an empty ring slot is better than Epa. I.E without Epa you can get a consistent 3 hit build to 1000 TP with a couple weapons. if you use Epa as opposed to something else, you are going to be in the irritating 985-999 TP zone onn the first attack round. It adds an entire attack round to your build. Basically, it forces you to hold TP for an extra attack round which is a pretty massive DPS loss. The DPS loss gets even bigger if you are using warcry. I think people who like epa dont factor in the -10 STP very accurately. or at all, they probably just swag it. I had Kari NQ beating Epa on all single hit WS that I could think of if you factored in the -10 STP. The smallest gap being on singe hand WS.
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By 2020-03-15 04:55:27
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By Spaitin 2020-03-15 14:26:53  
Then use regal, if you dont have regal, use rufescent. you are actually likely to get fSTR on savage as well. Epam was pretty bad for your tp build in solo content i found. depending on your TP set it was likely to add an attack round. If you have neither of those other rings, i recommend just going with an empty slot tbh. The ifrit ring would be decent off the AH.Kari nq is better than epam as well.

My recommendation if you have epa is to sell it. it is pretty bad.
 Bahamut.Lexouritis
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By Bahamut.Lexouritis 2020-03-17 06:03:25  
Spaitin said: »
My recommendation if you have epa is to sell it. it is pretty bad.

Unless you are SAM, it makes a lot of X-hits awkward due to the diminished TP return. Multihit WS it's a non starter, and also find it's not that great for one/two hit WS due to the same reason(for WAR). For the WS it's 'better' for, i'd rather have the 70-80mil. There's a few other jobs/ws I use it for but ya, if you're main and only dps is WAR, sell the ring.
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By Spaitin 2020-03-17 07:42:03  
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »
For the WS it's 'better' for, i'd rather have the 70-80mil.
When factoring in the -STP i found that Epam peaked at 3rd best ring option on fudo sam (edging out regal/kari NQ by a minuscule margin) and 5th best on torc drk (with options i could think of). Epam was very unlikely to mess with xhit on sam, I found drk and rune very likely to get hammered by the xhit goofiness. Most of the other "big" DD dont really have a good use for epam. So, imo epam is more of a sam only ring if you dont use kari or regal. Big DD to me refers to drk/drk/war/sam/mnk

But for the war thread, epam sucks, dont use it. Sell it, it sucks for war. Go with something else.
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By SimonSes 2020-03-17 11:43:44  
If you dont have Kari, its still the best option for Savage, even on WAR. Saying to go with empty ring slot instead on Savage is kinda silly. -10stp drops the overall value on Savage too, but its still gain. It's very unlikely that it will add attack round on Savage blade build too.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2020-03-17 12:23:32  
Spaitin said: »
Big DD to me refers to drk/drk/war/sam/mnk

Wyvern friends are sad. But DRK is so good it's listed twice! ;)
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By Spaitin 2020-03-17 13:33:16  
lol oops. drg was supposed to be in there somewhere.
 Bahamut.Yiazmat
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By Bahamut.Yiazmat 2020-03-18 17:48:41  
So i might upgrade Gela first then belt right ? Or belt first as she could be used for other ws ?
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2020-03-18 18:33:21  
On the fence on what to upgrade first, their all rather small upgrades and I'm worried that next month or two SE will release something even bigger.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-03-18 19:28:20  
Feels more like side-grades at this point, I might just sell the items for now. Dying to see what stuff like Obviation Cuirass/seething bomblet is going to have.
 Bahamut.Yiazmat
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By Bahamut.Yiazmat 2020-03-18 20:46:12  
Feel like seeth will get some dex/vit(+agi maybe) and maybe some macc due to the jobs that are using it.
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By SimonSes 2020-03-19 06:30:12  
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Feels more like side-grades at this point, I might just sell the items for now. Dying to see what stuff like Obviation Cuirass/seething bomblet is going to have.

You cant really call side-grade an upgrade in waist slot from 13 STR to 15STR, 2%TA, 5%DA
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