The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2020-09-23 19:16:20  
Cerberus.Caius said: »
Forgive my ignorance as it seems a lot of the back and forth everyone seems to be on the same page. However as these threads are often used by returning or new players to try and catch up with the meta and such....the elephant in the room for me is...

Has anyone or could anyone create a outline of what augments are required on Valorous or Odyssean gear to make them BIS and usable in some of these discussed sets?

I see multiple threads that toss this Escha gear around but a lot of time its not clear what the augments are(at least to me) to make them usable over other pieces. Reading the discussions it seems like it should be already known or assumed what the augments are being used, but with the range of possibilities im curious to know what specifically is being put on these pieces to make them better than everything else in his specific application/sets.

I think because Oseem has perfected his skill in giving you annoying stats, Gear from him tend to be random because you might get something much better from him or nothing at all or something you just wanted to curse his sister.

The most common choice for Warrior on Oseem gear would be something like STP +10 or whatever number to get your x-hit plus a decent amount of accuracy. If you already have enough then usually it's multi-attack. Or you might get lucky and get 3% quadruple attack or similar.

For WS gear, people tend to aim for 5% or more WSD plus the primary stat (like VIT), trading 3-4 WS stat for every 1% of WSD.
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By Spaitin 2020-09-24 19:40:03  
Cerberus.Caius said: »
Has anyone or could anyone create a outline of what augments are required on Valorous or Odyssean gear to make them BIS and usable in some of these discussed sets?
Since you didnt ask for which sets, I am going to just assume TP and Upheaval builds.

For TP, there are two main pieces. Legs and body. For body you want either the val body or odyssean body augmented with 8 STP. Both are really good, val is a tiny bit better

For legs TP, You want odyssean Legs augmented with either 8 STP or 5 DA. Both are really good.

For Upheaval. You want odyssean hands and legs augmented with vit and WSD. I use taupe stones and go for 4 WSD, acc and near max vit. Can always get lucky with DM campaign and get something better.
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 Asura.Clairxi
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By Asura.Clairxi 2020-09-27 01:11:30  
Ok, it's been a really long time since I have been on Warrior that I have a question about Retaliation and Restraint.

For Restraint - You previously need to have on the restraint + equipment during the auto attacks to gain the bonus during weaponskills but were not needed during the actual weaponskill themselves. (Empyrean Hands)

For Retaliation - You gain a damage bonus increase to retaliation, but I previously used these only upon activation, I did not full time these. (AF +3 & Empyrean Feet +1, was removed off Relic Feet upon reforge)

During the reforging process, did the equipment that enhances restraint and retaliation change? Do they only need to be worn during activation or do they need to be worn while the effects are active?
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 Asura.Luckycharmss
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By Asura.Luckycharmss 2020-09-27 03:23:09  
From how I understand it empy hands need to be worn while effect is active. Af3 hands/empy feet also need to be worn for the duration of the ability. I'm unaware of any changes from "upon activation" to "worn during the duration". I've always assumed worn during duration. Hope this helps answer your question.
 Asura.Clairxi
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By Asura.Clairxi 2020-09-27 17:50:44  
I wasn't 100% sure and haven't seen any testing since before the reforging process. I know the relic feet previously reduced the defence penalty when worn while Berserk was active. After the reforge process it change to only be extended duration.

I just wasn't sure if the restraint or retaliation changed at all either or if they are needing to be worn while the effect is up.
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By DaDrifter 2020-09-28 23:04:08  
What are the best gear sets (with augments) for Upheaval, Ukko's Fury, King Justice and Steel Cycle these day? I went back and have not see one posted for a little especially with the addition of new unity augments.

If you are inclined to post other WS for alternate weapons like Resolution, Impulse Drive, Black Halo, Decimation, Vorpal Blade it would be great too.

Thanks in advance.
 Asura.Luckycharmss
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By Asura.Luckycharmss 2020-09-29 00:39:26  
I won't post sets and spoon feed you. However I will point you in the right direction.

--- This will help you find others gearsets just sort to most recent for the gearset you are looking for. --
https://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets

-- As for alternate WS's --
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/54111/warrior-dwfencerpolearmh2hranged/

-- Read this forum in reverse --
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/35200/the-parthenon-a-warriors-kyklos/179/

P.S. Stop being lazy....
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By Felgarr 2020-09-29 01:15:36  
Asura.Luckycharmss said: »
I won't post sets and spoon feed you. However I will point you in the right direction.

--- This will help you find others gearsets just sort to most recent for the gearset you are looking for. --
https://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets

-- As for alternate WS's --
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/54111/warrior-dwfencerpolearmh2hranged/

-- Read this forum in reverse --
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/35200/the-parthenon-a-warriors-kyklos/179/

P.S. Stop being lazy....

It's not his fault, the forum search feature is broken. Who wants to scour forum pages one by one, especially with the high rate of nonsense your average FFXIAH user spews. :/
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 Asura.Luckycharmss
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By Asura.Luckycharmss 2020-09-29 01:31:47  
Maybe I'm just insane and just read every post lol. I've been thinking of making an updated War forum. That is if I ever get the time to really buckle down and do it.
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 Ragnarok.Galiber
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By Ragnarok.Galiber 2020-09-29 03:53:39  
Spaitin said: »
Asura.Memes said: »
So what does a 3/3 ten+1 TP set look like?
Youb mean 4/4? Pretty good.

ItemSet 375415
This would be a really good set.

Are the augs on Ody legs STP or DA?

Also since I won't be using Vim torque, I'm wondering if af legs become better with jse neck.

What spreadsheet are you guys using :3 the one I have seems all messed up.
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By Taint 2020-09-29 08:02:32  
ItemSet 375732

I'm rocking this. VIM is on my list but its not critical.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-09-29 09:31:10  
I don't really get the love for Vim torque all of a sudden. Even if you value STP at a 1:1 ratio with double attack, it feels like Vim has a huge negative for that extra +3 value over War Beads.

Edit: Just because someone came out and said 100% DA build is inefficient I don't think dropping 25% DA in your build is probably the way to go either. I'd be ok with Taint's posted build, 80% DA, some extra TA in there with STP.
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By SimonSes 2020-09-29 09:44:08  
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I don't really get the love for Vim torque all of a sudden. Even if you value STP at a 1:1 ratio with double attack, it feels like Vim has a huge negative for that extra +3 value over War Beads.

You should count 20 regain as few more points of sTP too. That being said I think 50HP tic is too much for alliance events, but probably not a problem for some lowman setups with WAR as only DD/tank.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-09-29 09:45:03  
SimonSes said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I don't really get the love for Vim torque all of a sudden. Even if you value STP at a 1:1 ratio with double attack, it feels like Vim has a huge negative for that extra +3 value over War Beads.

You should count 20 regain as few more points of sTP too. That being said I think 50HP tic is too much for alliance events, but probably not a problem for some lowman setups with WAR as only DD/tank.

If you've got a whm or sch with a good regen set. I often feel like I'm the only one that does.
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By SimonSes 2020-09-29 09:47:32  
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
SimonSes said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I don't really get the love for Vim torque all of a sudden. Even if you value STP at a 1:1 ratio with double attack, it feels like Vim has a huge negative for that extra +3 value over War Beads.

You should count 20 regain as few more points of sTP too. That being said I think 50HP tic is too much for alliance events, but probably not a problem for some lowman setups with WAR as only DD/tank.

If you've got a whm or sch with a good regen set. I often feel like I'm the only one that does.

Regen is one thing and another is cureskin from Afflatus Solace.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-09-29 10:43:03  
My question is this:

Spatin's proposed new bis no fighter's roll build drops 31 DA out of a 100% DA build in favor of 9 extra TA and 42 STP. Is giving up the guaranteed known attack rounds to x TP really offset by the TA gains and 42 STP? This came out of way far left field, when generally people have really been on the 100% DA kick for years now with no real opposition.
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2020-09-29 10:56:13  
I think on paper maybe but I would prefer a guarantee over a lot of maybes. It makes it easier to self chain because you are guaranteed to have enough TP.

42 STP is massive though. That's like 42% more TP. You will get some rounds where you pretty much overflowing TP but sometimes you might run a little slow.

However, if you have a lot of DA, each extra % of TA you add will reduce the DA effectiveness by the corresponding amount. If you have 90% DA and you add 10% TA then your DA will only proc 81% of the time (lost 10% of 90). Then the single hit rounds would be the last 9% (also reduced by 10%).
 Asura.Luckycharmss
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By Asura.Luckycharmss 2020-09-29 10:56:38  
I've never followed the 100% DA method
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-09-29 11:09:25  
Asura.Luckycharmss said: »
I've never followed the 100% DA method

Can you elaborate on why?
 Asura.Luckycharmss
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By Asura.Luckycharmss 2020-09-29 11:23:17  
I fully respect people like SimonSes,Sech,Spaitin Im sure Im forgetting a few but. I also disagree with somethings here an there. Whenever I did testing with 100% DA yes its very consistent. I just always felt there was another way. I just couldn't accept that 100% DA as gospel. I'm sure there are reasons for 100% DA, it just was not for me so... yea I just always added quad/trip/stp in my sets where I felt it made the most sense to me. Sometimes just cause its works on paper doesn't make it right in practice...

edit - I tend to stay quiet on alot of things cause I'm not one for math wars......
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-09-29 11:28:04  
Honestly, you cannot go wrong with 100% DA.

I personally have 3% QA/5% TA/100% DA on my WAR without COR/Ifrit Buffs. I like it, my average swing/round is a little over 2.1. I try to figure out ways to mix it up so I can add more STP into it, but honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with 100% DA + whatever other MA you can get on it.
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 Asura.Luckycharmss
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By Asura.Luckycharmss 2020-09-29 11:31:46  
100% agree
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-09-29 14:13:27  
thanks for sharing your reasoning. It's kind of interesting because I feel like this thread has been 100% DA or bust for a long time, and spatin's comment just kind of came out of left field and seemed to get no pushback at all. No real support thrown that way either, it just kind of landed and then... nothing.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2020-09-29 15:05:53  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
However, if you have a lot of DA, each extra % of TA you add will reduce the DA effectiveness by the corresponding amount. If you have 90% DA and you add 10% TA then your DA will only proc 81% of the time (lost 10% of 90). Then the single hit rounds would be the last 9% (also reduced by 10%).
Having small amounts of TA doesn't mean you can't still use 100% DA.
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By Spaitin 2020-09-29 16:40:29  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
I think on paper maybe but I would prefer a guarantee over a lot of maybes.
So the 100 DA build guarantees TP in 2 attack rounds. So does the new set, but with an 80%ish chance of doing a WS in 1 attack round.

In game testing had it waffle stomping the 100 DA build.
Asura.Luckycharmss said: »
I've been thinking of making an updated War forum.
I have toying with making a new war guide. This one isnt very good. The thread itself has good info. But the main page is mostly outdated. I just don't really know how to do it tbh.
Ragnarok.Galiber said: »
What spreadsheet are you guys using :3 the one I have seems all messed up.
There are no accurate spreadsheets, especially for war.
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
It's kind of interesting because I feel like this thread has been 100% DA or bust for a long time

It has been, and as far as I can tell, the 100 DA build has never been even close to ideal for non fighters roll. Having said that, it has never been a bad build. Just not a great build.

It is simple. As I said in the orignal post. THe 100 DA build is a 5 hit build that sams roll makes a 4 hit. You are guaranteed TP in 2 attack rounds unless you get a TA procc.

The new build has something like 70% DA and like 14 TA. You will get TP in 3 hits. So 1 ws and 2 hits. You will get TP 100% of the time in 2 attack rounds or less. Around 80% of the time you get TP in 1 attack round.

I did a few hours of ingame testing just to be sure. It wasnt even close, the new set beat it handily.

I then tried out a similar theory without using the tatenashi. Just had STP augmented val body and acro hands with ainia collar. Similar result. The 3 hit build was far superior. It had a much higher frequency of WSing. Yeah overtping is good, but WS frequency is much better. Especially on war.

Basically, the new set has a much higher frequency.

Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Spatin's proposed new bis no fighter's roll build drops 31 DA out of a 100% DA build in favor of 9 extra TA and 42 STP.
I am not positive it is 100% bis. As I said in my post, some tweaks may still be advantageous. Buy I am 100% sure it beats out the 100 DA build.

Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Is giving up the guaranteed known attack rounds to x TP really offset by the TA gains and 42 STP?
That is the thing. You are not giving up the known attack rounds to x tp. You are just making it faster. New set does it in 2 attack rounds in a worst case scenario. 1 round about 80-85% of the time. Old set basically is guaranteed to do it in 2.
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By Trigue 2020-09-29 18:02:09  
I never was a fan of stacking double attack and am glad this conversation has come up in the WAR community. Due to the upgrade of UNM armor pieces I think it's time to explore new possible BiS TP sets instead. These are the two sets I consider BiS for their respective utility. (These sets work around Chango's innate Store TP +10. You would have to adjust gear to maintain double attack and x-hit values with other weapons)

TP Build 1 - (5-hit) 213 TP/hit, 3% Quad Att, 4% Trip Att, 100% Dbl Att
ItemSet 375737

vs.

TP Build 2 - (4-hit) 263 TP/hit , 3% Quad Att, 22% Trip Att, 50% Dbl Att
ItemSet 375736

In a 100 attack round scenario TP Build 1 would generate 3 quadruple attacks, 4% Trip Att of the remaining 97 attack rounds for 3 triple attacks, and 94 double attacks for a total of 209 swings. At 213 TP/hit that totals 44,517 overall TP (~44 ws).

TP Build 2 would generate 3 quadruple attacks, 22% Trip Att of the remaining 97 attack rounds for 21 triple attacks, 50% Dbl Att of the now remaining 76 rounds for 38 double attacks, and 38 single attacks for a total of 189 swings. At 263 TP/hit that totals 49,707 overall TP (~49 ws).

From a TP generation stand point TP Build 2 looks to be BiS and will pull ahead further than TP Build 1 the longer a fight is. On the other hand the sets will narrow in TP generation the faster a fight is but build 2 will still perform better. There are other variables to consider in comparing these sets that I have not touched upon such as dps from melee damage, what buffs you are getting (no buffs were considered in this illustration), or possible armor swaps to optimize sets but I hope this will further the discussion to collectively improve WAR sets.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2020-09-29 18:29:10  
Trigue said: »
you can get 3 more TA with some swaps and it doesn't rely on unity rank, as well as some crit rate from body and a couple points of store tp

ItemSet 375747

edit: didn't realize you weren't considering fighter's roll or samurai's either.
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By Spaitin 2020-09-29 18:29:58  
Trigue said: »
These are the two sets I consider BiS for their respective utility.
What do you consider their utility?

I really like the 100 DA build. Much different than I am used to seeing.


The war tatenashi set i have some issues with. I assume this is just a non fighters TP set.
This set should beat it by a good chunk for non fighters situations.


ItemSet 375415

This set will also beat it.

ItemSet 375440

can swap in acro hands for flamma. I just like the crits.

Edit ****
Trigue said: »
(no buffs were considered in this illustration)
Did not notice this at first. You might be right. never tried a non sam/fighter build. I have no idea.
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By Spaitin 2020-09-29 19:05:27  
Trigue said: »
further the discussion to collectively improve WAR sets.
I think we need a bit of this.
I see a lot of people in other threads who have what they believe to be a BIS war, and are getting bad DPS because they are far from BIS. They are just going by what they THINK is BIS.

The big issue was the 100 DA build for non fighters situations. They think that is the best, grab another job with an actual BIS build and think war is behind them, they were just comparing max to good.

I also think this is why people think wars decimation build is similar to the 2 hand build DPS. I love DW, but the 2 hand weapon builds are pretty far ahead of the DW. I might need to re-examine war DW build. The DPS is just sooo far behind the 2 hand builds. Maybe somebody else has come up with a better DW TP set than I have.
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