The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Warrior » The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2021-03-10 14:51:49  
Serjero said: »
Are you sure that 25 MAB and 20 MDmg beats out 8-10% WSD for magic based WS's? Not nearly as familiar with the MAB:WSD ratio for things outside of TF/Leaden but if most things follow a similar 4:1 ratio or there about, wouldn't the effective difference be ~62 MAB vs 55 MAB and 20 MDmg.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this understanding.
I wanna say 1 WSDMG= 3 MATK

Path B just seems better for multi use.
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2021-03-10 15:22:01  
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Serjero said: »
Are you sure that 25 MAB and 20 MDmg beats out 8-10% WSD for magic based WS's? Not nearly as familiar with the MAB:WSD ratio for things outside of TF/Leaden but if most things follow a similar 4:1 ratio or there about, wouldn't the effective difference be ~62 MAB vs 55 MAB and 20 MDmg.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this understanding.
I wanna say 1 WSDMG= 3 MATK

Path B just seems better for multi use.

For Leaden it is ~3.3 MAB to 1 WSD for low end sets, 3.8 MAB to 1 WSD for high end sets, and ~4.3 MAB to 1 WSD for top tier + r15 mythic bonus, but Mdmg does very little. I think it is similar for cloudsplitter but havent tested this as much. If you're using the new set augmented, congratulations you are in the 'high end sets' bracket - The WSD will win
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By SimonSes 2021-03-10 16:49:39  
Shiva.Flowen said: »
+ r15 mythic bonus

Mythic bonus has no impact at all on wsd:mab ratio.
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By Spaitin 2021-03-10 17:55:41  
Yeah path b would be ideal. The wsd plus the MAB already on the set will help. Overall I would say nyame is skippable for war. Nyame is amazing for other jobs
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 Sylph.Excalin
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By Sylph.Excalin 2021-03-10 18:15:07  
MAB X WSD = highest number possible...the ratio shifts with your gear set.
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By Kikomizuhara 2021-03-10 23:02:59  
Even without the augs I'll be using Nyame for cloudsplitter and muling out my odyssean.
 Bahamut.Yiazmat
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By Bahamut.Yiazmat 2021-03-11 09:15:59  
ItemSet 378621

Is this still good for ukko's ?
Which changes could i make ?
I fell in love with Ukon so i def want to improve this ws set lol
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By Spaitin 2021-03-11 10:34:13  
I mean.... that is as good as It gets unless you can guarantee capped attack. Then you just swap 5/5 sakpata. Unfortunately ukko just isn't very good. Begrudgingly ring is nice
 Bahamut.Yiazmat
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By Bahamut.Yiazmat 2021-03-11 10:55:27  
Im just using ukko to proc am3, but still looking to have a decent set for that
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2021-03-11 16:08:50  
SimonSes said: »
Shiva.Flowen said: »
+ r15 mythic bonus

Mythic bonus has no impact at all on wsd:mab ratio.

This is true - I tested it with a top tier set + r15, but it was the top tier difference that changed the ratio not the mythic bonus.
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By Wyrmnax 2021-03-12 08:15:16  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
So what sub are you guys using for Odyssey farming? /Nin /Sam /Drg /Dnc?

I saw a couple wars running around with Naeling Fencer so I was wondering what's the sub for that build given the nature of farming and weapon switching.

War/drg with fencer has been my go-to.

Tp, then a single WS finishes most mobs on floor 1 and 2. Can quickly switch to club for slashing resistant mobs too ( there are plenty ). Can switch to a shining one for piercing, but usually you want blunt instead of piercing.

War/Sam has the flexibility to easily go piercing with shining one, but my chango has honestly been catching dust.

/nin with sakpata could possibly be great too, since if you bring cor + brd you should be atk capped on the first floor or two. But I am missing a few key pieces, so I have not been using it too much. Easy switch to blunt too with loxotic +1, BUT you dont get the tp bonus from fencer unless you drop dw.
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By Wyrmnax 2021-03-12 08:24:39  
Spaitin said: »
Yeah path b would be ideal. The wsd plus the MAB already on the set will help. Overall I would say nyame is skippable for war. Nyame is amazing for other jobs

^

I agree with this.

Except maybe for the legs. WSD Nyame are great.

But the set is so useful in *many* jobs that you will really need to evaluate where it can do more good.
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2021-03-12 10:18:25  
I have tried a bit and War/Drg seems okay. I will try maybe War/Dnc next.

It does absolutely trash damage when I had no buffs. Like 15k. With protect/shell, 3 songs and 2 rolls and it starts to pump pit 30-40k. So /Dnc with a samba buffs that I can keep constantly might help more than 7% WSD.
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By Wyrmnax 2021-03-12 11:17:58  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
I have tried a bit and War/Drg seems okay. I will try maybe War/Dnc next.

It does absolutely trash damage when I had no buffs. Like 15k. With protect/shell, 3 songs and 2 rolls and it starts to pump pit 30-40k. So /Dnc with a samba buffs that I can keep constantly might help more than 7% WSD.

prot/shell has nothing to do with your damage.....

Savage Blade is kinda easy to gear for ( WSD, pretty much ). It does cap out at around 50k with capped atk and top-of-the-line gear (~70 WSD). But it is *much* easier to get high numbers than - for example - Decimation. It also completely skews the white/ws damage chart - it becomes something like 25/75

It will loose its appeal to multi-hits when Atk capped when you can use sakpata, or when your gear for it sucks ( As Multi-hit WSes set is close to what you would use for tp)

For me - missing very little gear overall - SB outperforms dual wield significantly until I get to atk capped situations, when sakpata just pisses all over everything.

So yeah. Btw, /dnc will diminish your ws damage, but might* raise their frequency (Depending on tp spend for samba). You can't just look at the raw WS numbers.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-03-12 11:24:36  
Wyrmnax said: »
prot/shell has nothing to do with your damage.....

It would with a naegling....
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 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2021-03-12 11:40:45  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
I have tried a bit and War/Drg seems okay. I will try maybe War/Dnc next.

It does absolutely trash damage when I had no buffs. Like 15k. With protect/shell, 3 songs and 2 rolls and it starts to pump pit 30-40k. So /Dnc with a samba buffs that I can keep constantly might help more than 7% WSD.

30-40k sounds about right for Savage Blade at uncapped attack. Can do 40-50k at capped attack though.

TP generation for WAR/DRG on segment farms loses out a bit to WAR/SAM but it brings the added bonus of working well for covering slashing/blunt. I mostly use WAR/SAM and Chango plus Shining One, just forgoing blunt damage, and it works well. I might play around with a staff build to supplement slashing/piercing but I'm not sure it's worth it. White damage builds with Farsha or Ukon work very well in Odyssey too but constant weapon switching does not play nice with AM3 maintenance.

Bosses are a different story since you know exactly what you are going to be targeting from a weakness standpoint.
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2021-03-12 12:29:09  
Yeah, can't seem to cap attack in odyssey when mobs have like 50-80k HP. They die in 2 WS. Only when they don't and still have like 1-5% left that's when it gets tricky. Chango tend to clear that easily, naegling, takes a while and have to overkill.

I just prefer to kill a mob before it's HP reaches below 50%. It prevents TP moves but have I a hard time timing that.

TP generation isn't actually a problem because I have a shield that helps blocking so I just roll with multiple mobs and retaliation for TP.

What's the atk buff rate on Naegling anyways?
 Asura.Chendar
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By Asura.Chendar 2021-03-12 12:53:00  
about 1% atk per buff
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2021-03-12 12:55:09  
That's not a lot :/ /Drg probably do better then. I really like Jumps for extra TP.
 Bahamut.Aldy
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By Bahamut.Aldy 2021-03-12 13:26:36  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Yeah, can't seem to cap attack in odyssey when mobs have like 50-80k HP.

Not sure if you're properly understanding what being attack capped means, as mob HP doesn't factor in to that. It doesn't mean one-shotting.
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2021-03-12 14:29:33  
Bahamut.Aldy said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Yeah, can't seem to cap attack in odyssey when mobs have like 50-80k HP.

Not sure if you're properly understanding what being attack capped means, as mob HP doesn't factor in to that. It doesn't mean one-shotting.

Not sure if you are understanding it because it's hard to cap attack when mobs die in 2 WS. You need time to apply Dia and other -Def down to cap attack. There isn't a point to do so when mobs die quickly. Unless you have a Bst, they can do that AOE.
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-03-12 14:33:02  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Bahamut.Aldy said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Yeah, can't seem to cap attack in odyssey when mobs have like 50-80k HP.

Not sure if you're properly understanding what being attack capped means, as mob HP doesn't factor in to that. It doesn't mean one-shotting.

Not sure if you are understanding it because it's hard to cap attack when mobs die in 2 WS. You need time to apply Dia and other -Def down to cap attack. There isn't a point to do so when mobs die quickly. Unless you have a Bst, they can do that AOE.

BST and BLU does a very good job of applying AoE defense down. Also mobs don't have that much defense, it's not inconsequential but since this is a WAR forum I'm assuming we're all WAR's. WAR has a really high innate attack boost and Chaos + Fury + Minute should get you really close on everything in the lower floors.
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By Creecreelo 2021-03-13 08:53:43  
I'm dusting off my War and was hoping to get some confirmation on stuff in regards to Fencer. Each Fencer+1 from gear is an additional +50 TP Bonus/+1% Critical Hit rate afair, right? Excluding gear, War's base Fencer is 500 TP Bonus and 730 TP Bonus including gifts, correct?

This information regarding how Fencer+ worked used to be on the BG wiki page but was removed last Nov by someone it looks like?
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By Leviathan.Andret 2021-03-13 10:24:59  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Bahamut.Aldy said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Yeah, can't seem to cap attack in odyssey when mobs have like 50-80k HP.

Not sure if you're properly understanding what being attack capped means, as mob HP doesn't factor in to that. It doesn't mean one-shotting.

Not sure if you are understanding it because it's hard to cap attack when mobs die in 2 WS. You need time to apply Dia and other -Def down to cap attack. There isn't a point to do so when mobs die quickly. Unless you have a Bst, they can do that AOE.

BST and BLU does a very good job of applying AoE defense down. Also mobs don't have that much defense, it's not inconsequential but since this is a WAR forum I'm assuming we're all WAR's. WAR has a really high innate attack boost and Chaos + Fury + Minute should get you really close on everything in the lower floors.

I rarely see Geo in seg farming. Bst tend to not be around and Blu rarely apply def down to cap attack. Capping attack is sort of rare without means of reducing Def.

At one point even acc became uncapped in Sheol B as soon as I loose honor march. I believe the stats are pretty close and any one walking around assuming he has maximum stats on all floors can lead to a lot of head scratching.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-03-13 10:46:41  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Bahamut.Aldy said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Yeah, can't seem to cap attack in odyssey when mobs have like 50-80k HP.

Not sure if you're properly understanding what being attack capped means, as mob HP doesn't factor in to that. It doesn't mean one-shotting.

Not sure if you are understanding it because it's hard to cap attack when mobs die in 2 WS. You need time to apply Dia and other -Def down to cap attack. There isn't a point to do so when mobs die quickly. Unless you have a Bst, they can do that AOE.

BST and BLU does a very good job of applying AoE defense down. Also mobs don't have that much defense, it's not inconsequential but since this is a WAR forum I'm assuming we're all WAR's. WAR has a really high innate attack boost and Chaos + Fury + Minute should get you really close on everything in the lower floors.

I rarely see Geo in seg farming. Bst tend to not be around and Blu rarely apply def down to cap attack. Capping attack is sort of rare without means of reducing Def.

At one point even acc became uncapped in Sheol B as soon as I loose honor march. I believe the stats are pretty close and any one walking around assuming he has maximum stats on all floors can lead to a lot of head scratching.

This sounds like an issue with how you are farming segments. It's really easy to cap stats on the lower floors with standard buffs and being on a high attack job like Warrior.
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By fillerbunny9 2021-03-13 13:19:00  
Creecreelo said: »
I'm dusting off my War and was hoping to get some confirmation on stuff in regards to Fencer. Each Fencer+1 from gear is an additional +50 TP Bonus/+1% Critical Hit rate afair, right? Excluding gear, War's base Fencer is 500 TP Bonus and 730 TP Bonus including gifts, correct?

This information regarding how Fencer+ worked used to be on the BG wiki page but was removed last Nov by someone it looks like?
looks like it is there to me?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Fencer
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By Creecreelo 2021-03-13 17:06:25  
fillerbunny9 said: »
Creecreelo said: »
I'm dusting off my War and was hoping to get some confirmation on stuff in regards to Fencer. Each Fencer+1 from gear is an additional +50 TP Bonus/+1% Critical Hit rate afair, right? Excluding gear, War's base Fencer is 500 TP Bonus and 730 TP Bonus including gifts, correct?

This information regarding how Fencer+ worked used to be on the BG wiki page but was removed last Nov by someone it looks like?
looks like it is there to me?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Fencer

Yeah, I'm saying the page is there, but it's been altered from what I remember, specifically in regards to removing how Fencer+ from equipment worked. Hoping if someone could just confirm Fencer+x is TP Bonus+50 per point as that will help me determine an absolute cut off point where building TP is pointless with my current Fencer WS sets.
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By Lili 2021-03-13 17:08:56  
Creecreelo said: »
Yeah, I'm saying the page is there, but it's been altered from what I remember, specifically in regards to removing how Fencer+ from equipment worked. Hoping if someone could just confirm Fencer+x is TP Bonus+50 per point as that will help me determine an absolute cut off point where building TP is pointless with my current Fencer WS sets.

Fencer from equipment simply gives you +1 tier. Maximum tier that you can gain benefit from is tier 8 - having 9 Fencer total is useless. That's all there is to it really.
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By Creecreelo 2021-03-13 17:29:12  
Lili said: »
Creecreelo said: »
Yeah, I'm saying the page is there, but it's been altered from what I remember, specifically in regards to removing how Fencer+ from equipment worked. Hoping if someone could just confirm Fencer+x is TP Bonus+50 per point as that will help me determine an absolute cut off point where building TP is pointless with my current Fencer WS sets.

Fencer from equipment simply gives you +1 tier. Maximum tier that you can gain benefit from is tier 8 - having 9 Fencer total is useless. That's all there is to it really.

Ahhh, I think I see now. I completely missed that JP post that seems to outline what you're saying. So to be clear, the maximum 8 tier stuff is basically a combination of a job's innate Fencer job trait and any Fencer+ you may have equipped, meaning that a War would only need Fencer+3 in gear to reach the max 8?

Combined with gift, the maximum TP Bonus a War could receive with capped Fencer is 860? Although realistically it seems a War would likely be using Fencer+2 in their WS these days (Neck + Shield).
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By Lili 2021-03-13 18:22:42  
Creecreelo said: »
Ahhh, I think I see now. I completely missed that JP post that seems to outline what you're saying. So to be clear, the maximum 8 tier stuff is basically a combination of a job's innate Fencer job trait and any Fencer+ you may have equipped, meaning that a War would only need Fencer+3 in gear to reach the max 8?

Combined with gift, the maximum TP Bonus a War could receive with capped Fencer is 860? Although realistically it seems a War would likely be using Fencer+2 in their WS these days (Neck + Shield).

Correct on both accounts. Almost nobody bothers with the last tier of Fencer since it's just +30 tp bonus, and there's better options in those slots (relic hands or empy feet).
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