Looking To See What Role Is A RDM Now?

There is if you know how to work the door. wink wink nudge nudge.

People refuse to accept that RDM is the worst of the three healer options for Salvage II. They want to try to create fictional situations where somehow it's the better choice.

That's going a bit .. far, but I can see where someone would be willing to just warp out their mule once inside. Everyone I know who "solo's" it does it with two mules. One guy got so pissed at hydra that he quad-boxed Zhao and killed all six NM's and both Hydras using a very weird yet effective setup.

PLD/WAR Him (Fulg Reso spam on the way up, Burtang / OChain on HQ Hydra)
WHM/SCH healer
BST (just had a pet on the NMs the entire time)
BRD/WHM (used for march's and ballads)

Think he did it for the accomplishment.

First of all, you aren't capping attack without both RCB + Berserk (some jobs may still be short of capping even with those), so Dia III is actually helpful in speeding up runs over a WHM. Second, my main mage is a Yagrush WHM; I'm not "arguing for RDM" because it's all I have available. Quotes around arguing for RDM because you don't seem to get that I'm not saying that RDM is superior to a SCH.

I did Enraged Hydra the other day. He can suck when you only have 1 melee on it since having more in range lowers Trembling dmg, and dispelling buffs sucks.

So fast reflexes to counter Trembling with PDT/DT- gear is a must.
Infact, those hydras makes cerbs look like childsplay compared - using MNK anyways.

Bet Ochain/Burt makes Enraged Hydra a very easy, but a long fight :x

Salvage, Odin2.

Ahh classic straw man argument. If you can't argue against someone's position you twist it into something you can argue against.

The difference between Dia III and Dia II is 5% defense down or 5.9% attack boost. The options and tools that SCH and WHM offer will more then beat that out. The monsters on the first floor (the only place where a RDM will make anything that remotely resembles a difference) have stupidly low stats, food and Dia II has your DD's doing just fine. Now later that may change but by then both WHM and SCH have got all their toys and RDM is left far behind them.


Yet your arguing for it, or more specifically trying to argue with those arguing against it. My point is that RDM offers nothing that a SCH or WHM couldn't do better. There is no benefit from bringing a RDM over either of those other two. If that's all a group has access to then you make due, but do not act as though it's "fine". Clearing slower means less time to farm alex or even timing out if the group isn't in the upper percentage of FFXI players. I can say this because the group I lead has access to tons of different job combos most with top end gear, including RDM. I would never EVER have our healer go RDM over their WHM or SCH. So if a group has a choice, bring one of the other two.

We fight hydra with THF + WAR + SCH now, was a struggle without embrava just because of how much stupid damage it can output. Embrava + Perp Regen V means you need very little healing and can just beat him down. Enspells means you'll do ~some~ damage when it's in bulwark mode, prevents it from regening.

Cerb can be hard or stupid easy depending on the group. A MNK (formless) or BLU (req spam) makes it seem really easy. The first time I fought it I was on BLU and didn't see why others were having issues. It wasn't until we did a run where I went WAR that we experienced issues. After that I built a Req WS set for WAR lol. Only time I will ever use it, but it's helpful when he's under 30% HP.

To hydra you should always bring a DRK or a MNK really <_>
Twilight or Formless helps alot.

We did this for while, I went DRK with Twilight Scyth and honestly it didn't do nearly enough and I was forced into -DT set too much. We beat it most of the time but had some very close calls. So now it's MS Rag Reso spam with Embrava, it dies so fast.

Bully + SA + TA + AC + MS -> Sekko Reso + Scourge -> Med -> Reso Reso Reso ect..

It dies really fast this way, no time for it to get shitty. Thought honestly could do much the same with a DRK + THF combo, won't have MS Reso action but should be more then adequate to crush HQ Hydra.

By the way, dunno if this works in neo-salvage, if you start the entry process and then DC the 3rd character just before you actually enter, you will save that mule's tag for reentry as many times as you want.

Just open up task manager and end task on FFXI when you want to force a DC easily.

Also I am learning all sorts of things about salvage in this thread. Good to hear that I can potentially clear everything with my tri-box I am working on.

Just type //terminate or open the console using insert and type: terminate

It'll instantly close the game window you have up. Obviously this requires windower but if you're dual boxing, you have that. Terminating the task from task manager when dual boxing requires you to know your process ID and also have that column turned on which isn't default. It's annoying to cancel the wrong one ^^;

Alternatively if your help doesn't have windower or just doesn't want to have to log all the way back in to pol, you can log to the char select screen. Start your extra char logging out, when they reach 5 seconds, enter. If you want to solo and have 2 friends to let you enter you can call an ingame time and have both start logging out at that time. and then same as above.

I cannot tell you how much I've done this for salvage helping people with mythics. And yes it works with Neo salvage, assault and pretty much any Aht Urghan content that requires multiple people as well.

You can also bring the 3rd person /BLM and warp out as you're entering, unless you want to keep them at the entrance if that's all that you use them for.

After thinking about it I did two runs the other night with two ppl. Just had my 2nd mule drop party & run forward and die a horrible death then homepoint out. Went WAR + WHM, was fun. Discovered two things, one being that Discoid prevents Zhaolm from being plan farmable and two that I could get much farther then I anticipated. Beat all six plan NMs in SSR, killed the NQ boss and had the HQ boss to 9% when he killed me (too slow on healing on my alt). Right after I face plant the 1min timer is announced. So I figure I could beat him easily if I tune my mules macros more and avoid an accidental death on the 2nd floor.

How does Discoid make Zhayolm unfarmable?

Haven't done Salvage II, so keep that in mind.

Discoid does damage that is spread among all party members within range. This means that less party members = higher damage. With one or two characters (dual box situation), this could easily cause a wipe.

If you switch to the application tab in task manager it should show the instances of windower as well as the chara name associated for each one.

I do Zhayolm II MNK WHM. Split between two people, it will only do 2200, and cut down by MDT, it will only end up doing ~1k. Throw a TH mule in there and you don't even really need MDT.

Zhayolm sucks, but Discoid isn't why.

I would probably abuse this method if I had a 3rd mule (for bhaf v2).

That's even more complicated. What I normally do is have the 3rd person, if a mule say yes when "Are you ready" message pops up then type //game_exit (a windower command) as the screen start to fade black. That gives you that extra 20 seconds are so since the person that initiates assault-like events enters last in the party.

Alternatively if the 3rd person is a friend, ls mate, or a hired doorman, When you get to the "Are you ready" option have the 3rd person use their instant warp scroll. As you see the scroll activate you can hit yes. This will let people get you in without them having to D/C or lose their permit.

I got all the way to Discoid NM in 60m. I have a DT and Shellra V 5/5 up. It did 1.6k to the WHM and 1.2K or so to me. I survived but the healer has no where near enough HP to survive that which was the point I'm making. Bringing a 3rd character and discoid isn't a problem but this was about using two characters (WAR + WHM).

Remember we're dual boxing here, there isn't a real person playing the whm nor do they realistically have a PDT/MDT set (it's a freaking mule). We're discussing farming the zones for plans using two characters, the megaboss's would be a nice bonus but not required. I was in Zhayolm cause it has the most Bloodshed though due to it's pathing your forced to take 1 NM for skadi. Adding that to the discoid issue I've decided to just farm Arrapago which I can easily do with two characters and kill the megaboss.

If you had your timer's right with this you could essentially solo enter each character separately for a total of 6 runs in one day if you were that crazy.

Have to pick up a tag before hand and wait for the next tag to be ready to pick up to do it though.

I am getting crazy with my plan right now and I have a total of 6 characters, each one I plan to cap 4 jobs on each, the only 2 jobs I am doubling up on since 22/24 are thf and rng. I am making a gunner rng and cor on one, and a bow ranger on the other tee hee.

i suck so everyone sucks

There is a ton of reasonably cheap and available dt gear for mages, and his scenario is another feather in rdm's cap. A job which made its name for survivability. I would bet a rdm in mdt/mdb gear with phalanx and ss would take less damage than the dd by a good margin.

Straw man and ad hominem.

Requiring a 40~50% MDT set for a mule is a bit extreme, well past the power gamey line. If I'm going to spend time to do something like that it's going to be on my main not on my mule.


Did you fall off the back of the short bus or something?

Discoid is a direct damage magic attack at 4400 spread amongst all targets. MDB does absolutely nothing phalanx blocks a whopping 30~32 damage and stoneskin is the exact same 350 aoe that WHM/SCH and SCH/RDM give out. If anything the WHM absolutely crush's the RDM as it can get 5/5 Shellra V with augmented relic feet for a higher base MDT then the RDM can get. In no shape or form will a RDM be any better then a SCH and is actually worse then a WHM there.

Also ... are you seriously that inexperienced with heavy melees? 50% MDT is piss easy to get on a heavy DD, mostly due to Shellra V being a 26~29% (70~75/256) (Shell V is 62/256) with the cap being 50% (128/256). You only need 53~58/256 (20.7 ~ 22.6%) in gear to cap (66 with shell V @25.7%)

5% DT Twilight Torque
5% DT Mollusca Mantle
8% DT Mekira Meikogai

Then a dark ring and *poof* capped 50% MDT with capped haste setup and a good chunk of PDT / BDT as well.

So no the RDM wouldn't take any less then a DD and might even take more or require more equipment to reach 50% MDT.

As you done inventing crap now?

Because Stoneskin and/or Reraise is hard. Never mind that with Shellra V from your better-than-RDM WHM you only need ~23% MDT in gear to cap (less if you wear Sheltered ring). Minerva's ring will get you 1/3 of the way there on its own. Capping MDT is hilariously easy, and the chariot isn't even guaranteed to use Discoid in the first place.

If you don't want to/can't farm Zhayolm, that's fine, but don't call it unfarmable because you're too lazy to put any effort into your mule.

Go read the post prior, I have a full 50% MDT set. Honestly I had just hit my res macro when it did it, so even though I was spamming my DT macro it was too late anyway. In either case the WHM would of died which necessitates me moving it around while I reraise back up and reapply RR / skin. In the end it's just not worth the hassle when Arrapago will give you the same results and requires much less work. Zhayolm is essentially unfarmable for a single player dual boxing, unless you just punching yourself in the face over and over again. Discoid just makes that fight so much harder then it would otherwise be. People are here talking about MDT sets on a mule, seriously a f8cking mule. Mule as in the character your spend minimal time on and most likely got it from a friend who quit.

Now stop being stupid.

I know I'm adding fuel to the fire, and I apologize for that, but how well you gear your mule is up to the player.

Case in point: RagnarokShypar - At least a level 90 Daurdabla and 99 Gjallarhorn, is also a mule.

Another case in point as well: RagnarokAshraya which I believe is RagnarokEjiin’s mule (please correct me if I’m wrong) who I would not be surprised if she has a 99 horn, a 99 harp, AND a 99 Mythic BRD weapon.

Gearing a mule is a mindset that someone has and everyone treats it differently. Just because you do not gear a mule up fully does not mean others do not. If one needs to duo box more effectively, they take the time and effort to do so - making an arguement against doing so is your own playstyle and should not be an accurate reflection of everyone's experience as a whole.

I spend more time worrying about what/how/when I'm going to gear up Mouwn, than Ashman. I started a mule because I felt there was nothing left I wanted to attain on Ashman.

There are literally only 4 things left I care about for Ash

but I have a shopping list for mouwn (including neo-salvage > meebles > etc)

I've done Zhayolm II four times (both Hydras each time), twice on my own as MNK WHM. Calling it unfarmable because you can't be assed to do anything other than buy spells for your mule is farcical.

It takes literally zero effort to cap MDT on a mage job. Minerva's/Dark, Merman's earring x2, Twilight Torque will put you at 23% (21% assuming your Dark ring is only 4% like mine is). Should I not bother with Refresh gear either, since it's just a mule? Or an idle set, or cure potency, or PDT, or enhancing gear? That argument is ridiculous. It's not a mule, it's a character. How well it's geared will affect how well (or poorly) you do. And if I got an account from a friend, it would already have all those sets to begin with.