Looking To See What Role Is A RDM Now?

Since you took your time dissecting my post, I'll returned the favour.

I refer to this.


Read what's been said atleast.

Way to be Captain-Obvious.

Not once did I say I was /whm for my runs. But you can be /whm and and MP will still be manageable assuming your mule didnt ship out right after an aby-burn, and been invested some time into gear sets.

This case of scenario only applies to first floor if SCH doesn't get JA from lamp.



It doesn't spam TP moves when you have 1 melee on it+chi blast (max pennance merits+augment af2+2 head)

Thf can Flatblade, but stunning petro eyes won't matter if you can completely negate it from attacking from behind.

Also, I have been petrified on MNK. (weird zone lag)

I drew hate with a cure 4, and nukes, put gravity on, and deagg it - extremely easy.

Can do this whenever you get in trouble - be it a bad moment when silence wears off/Nullsong.

With dots on, it won't regen HP. Rested MP, re-applied dots, gravity and put in some nukes.

This will eat some extra minutes, but nothing that jeopardize my runs.


No it's not. Keep in mind mobs on starter floors has scaled stats aswell. Sure I get occassionally resists on Aspir, but puddings will always max out MP on my runs. SCH also have Aspir 2


You realize this means the same.

Quick question about Composure.

For the increased duration effect of enhancing magic on party members, does the empy +2 set need to be equipped before using the job ability, or does the empy +2 need to be equipped during spell casting?

Empy +2 Pieces need to be equipped when casting spells on your party/alli memebers to get the bonus it gives

The Jobs were designed to work together, RDM along WHM and SCH etc. It's something that is hard to grasp for NA/EU players coming from an individualistic culture.

That being said, IMO, RDM hot points are still:
- Crazy Fast cast.
- Quick Access to majority of spells (Penalty free).
- Composure.
- MP management. Outside abyssea nothing can beat RDM, not even SCH/RDM (again you have to look at the group MP, not one player - SCH can't help with that).

At the end, the point is to keep members alive and get the job done. Don't care if PUP/BST can heal better than SCH/RDM or w/e.

Wat? or it became inefficient to take a dd out of a party or alliance because other healers became able to haste heal solo. By adding increased access to refresh, heal gear, and the like, RDM's strengths as a support class diminished and healers' strengthened.

FC caps at 80% it's really not that hard to cap with ToM staves and/or gear.

SCH/RDM runs circles around RDM as far as mp management with penury and af3+2 pants. The extra ticks to sublimination from sch main just add icing the cake. Also on older content curing isn't necessary with Regen5.

Composure only works on yourself I thought? Perpetuance.

Anyhow Dia3 is nice! I'll give RDM that! EDIT:Anyhow my point isn't to say Xjob is better than Yjob. The qualities that were unique to RDM aren't really unique to them anymore.

emp set bonus allows part of composure's effect to extend to party members

I did not know this! Thanks!

So with all emp items+cape its 95% increase enhancing magic duration vs. perpetuance + af3+2 gloves increase to 250%?

the real problem with this..is that SCH only has 5 stratagems and you use 4/5 to get two buffs up if you accession+perpetuance two buffs. Sure, with tab you get unlimited stratagems...but thats during tab and not all the time unlike RDM where they can throw a single buff while the SCH is waiting for stratagems.

RDM is not trumped by SCH but is more a support job for SCH.

As for "OMGAWD WE GET UBER AMOUNTS OF REFRESH FROM GEAR!" if you have a good thing and can get more of it,its amazing to have that little bit of extra.Gear Refresh is limited to how many spaces you can have that buff on also,and you sure as all hell arent going to be full timing refresh gear.

I just cant wait for Adoulin where these arguments can die because enfeebling,tanking,curing,and not ZERGZERGZERGing things will become more valuable. Or, when people look past Embrava and tabula rasa's unlimited stratagems as a key point to SCH and look at it as they only have 5 stratagems and are not ungodly immune to running out of MP.

They are both fantastic jobs. Which is why i didn't want to start the ole RDM v. SCH. I really wish they would just give them unique traits outside of 2hr >.>

If I'm allowed to chime in...

..from my perspective, playing both RDM and SCH regularly, the only advantage RDM has over SCH is that it feels like a more solid mage job with less vulnerabilities. SCH seems to be intentionally strong, but with annoyances that I run into more often than I'd like. Most everyone who plays SCH or /SCH knows how annoying it is to be in Light Arts and finding that they need to dispel; or being in Dark Arts and finding that they need to erase. Being paralyzed and trying repeatedly to pop Light Arts->Addendum: White to paralyna isn't fun.

Also, I believe that if everything goes the way it should, SCH would be superior, no doubt about it. If something does go wrong though, it just feels like RDM is far superior in their ability to coup with it. Spells are near-instantaneous(Spontaneity for raises) and if you want to rebuff yourself(or someone else), you can do so without having to pop a new stratagem before every spell.

Well, apparently GEO gets Refresh-aura...so hey look, more reason Redmage is "dead" to people that only like to have a lot of refresh in their idle sets/atmas ._.'

God help us if GEO gets a Regain aura...poor SCH's wont stand a chance.

More the amount of fastcast you retain while using gear slots for other stuff


I wouldn't say that SCH/RDM is "MILES" ahead, though it does have some decent tools for short term bursts, in the long run, it doesn't have any advantage over RDM in MP management. I defy you to show any kind of realistic math that using all your strats for Penury and riding sublimation is more effective than the tools RDM has.


Nobody is arguing that other jobs don't have some/most of the tools that RDM has. WHM and SCH are better healers and buffers, BLM and SCH are better nukers... The thing is, nothing touches RDM at its versitility. While SCH may be able to heal better while in light arts, and nuke better while in dark arts, it CANNOT do both simultaniously the way RDM can, and no amount of fanboy enthusiasm will change that.

If they ever fix enfeebling, I can see RDM being useful to a party.

I'd also like to point out something said earlier in the thread.

You either have to say +95% w/composure and +150% w/perp, or say 195% w/composure and 250% w/perp. You can't say +95% for one and 250% for the other. It's correct, but it's incredibly misleading.

Its not that perp doesn't make the spell last longer, its that RDM doesn't need to burn a JA to make said spells last longer.

assuming rdm/sch and sch/rdm. The only real difference is sublimation vs refresh 2. Assumptions: you are using enough MP that you always need the mp restord, the sch reuses sublimation as soon as it is ready and wears earring (the only piece with out an equivalent or better refresh piece (that both rdm and sch can use) and the rdm recasts refresh 2 without down time using composure af3+2 shoes/back.

rdm: 8 min 15 seconds per refresh2, 60mp cost. net 930 mp total over 165 tics. 5.636 mp per tic.

scholar: sublimation stores up to ~300 in 34 tics + 30 seconds (10 tics) of down time. 300mp/44 tics. 6.818 mp per tic

Scholar has the mp advantage. Given you should be wearing 7~mp/tic refresh gear and are probably getting outside refresh the difference is definitely not miles however.

Edit: JPWiki also has sch having slightly more conserve mp for what marginal benefit that is.

Assuming you spend the whole time in your refresh set, yes, but unless you're casting in refresh, its going to greatly devalue the advantage sch there.

As we both said, its not "MILES".

Edit: thats also assuming you ride sublimation and actually get all the MP stored.

Actually the lower your gear/outside refresh is the larger relative advantage scholar has.

Edit: And if you aren't getting all of the mp out of sublimation you aren't getting all the mp out of refresh because scholar has more control over when you get mp returns. You can also start with a charged sublimation (IE start with a positive mp) while rdm at best starts even and normally has to start with negative mp from casting.

Edit2: I suppose the earring would get unequipped sometimes which would give sch a lower bound of 6.25 mp a second if you got caught not wearing it every single tic.

You're forgetting Regen5. Regen5 in LA as SCH main is incredibly MP efficient particularly for older content. You really don't have to do much curing as sch and can focus on DA:AB nuking so long as Regen5 is up on the party. EDIT: Also Aspir2 lolz

The point isn't about gear slots. That's what spellcast/precast is for; the point is "crazy fast cast" isn't unique to the RDM jobclass anymore.


Yeah I was taking them from bgwiki, and kinda just skimped it too quickly.

Don't forget about the 8 min 20 second convert. That might change it a little bit.

he said rdm/sch vs sch/rdm. both have access to convert.

Also woah guys. I can't believe how much this derailed from the subject. It started with "I like playing rdm, when can i play rdm." to become " sch is more epeen then rdm therefore you should not play rdm".

OK whatever,
some people think sch is better for some things, some people like red mage more for other stuff. Quit the epeen contest now.


The point is;
-SOME people use rdm for salvage I and II. best or not, we dont care, it can be used.

-SOME people use it for provenance. Best or not to have rdm or another job, we dont care. Some people use it for a strategy, its perfectly resonable.

-SOME people use it for einherjar. Could they use another job? probably, they still allow some red mage to do that event for what they do.

-SOME people say rdm is great for limbus. Does smn do better? probably, rdm can still clear limbus pretty well.

-SOME people use rdm for voidwatch. I agree, it can take the spot of one of the blm and still split spell and clear almost anything and provide advantage for those addle/slow procs that sometime can be annoying. Is it best to bring another job? Maybe, but we dont care. rdm can be used there.

-MOST seems to agree that you will have a hard time joining a group for end game as rdm. Probably, but thats the player decision to make his name and reputation to be liked in group. And it will not always be automatically refused because rdm.

-SOME people say that rdm will be good for low manning stuff. Is it best? thats extremly situational, some say yes for this, other say no for that. Overall, can it do it? yes.

-MOST seems to agree that rdm is pretty good at soloing. Some say blu is better. Who care, that doesnt mean rdm cant.

-Legion? i have no idea but i'd say no for the time being.

Now can we quit the epeen contest please?

Ps: i never played rdm since 75+ level beside getting it to 99. im mostly playing blm and sch. I really love sch. i used to really love rdm. I know great rdm who can fill their role perfectly. Clear things. and stuff. if anything i'd be supporting the sch epeen contest, but thats not the topic.

rdm can do things. (best or not, is not the topic subject)

edited a word pointed bellow.

I don't see why you're allowed to compare the two jobs in an unnecessarily long, entirely opinionated post void of any kind of empirical evidence, but you forbid other people, who do give empirical evidence, from doing the same.

RDM is a valuable tool that is brought to nearly all our end game events.



No sarcasm.

I was talking about the 1 min 40 seconds off, it isn't much, but I also said it might only change it a little bit.

Lol'd at can believe

I do agree with your point though. Each job has its own thing and can be great in whatever situation the job is needed in.

Just defending the point that rdm "can" be used and sometime is. Which is the point of this post.

In theory you should not bring one. In reality, people sometime do. I'm just pointing the evidence i have witnessed, and like i said, i dont play rdm so i dont really care. But i do know great rdms who can do pretty well in those said event.

edit: and oh crap at can instead of can't!! im gonna edit something so reader gets what i mean (and i typed fast, im at my job, and im native french canadian! be nice!)

I for one was not saying that X job is better than Y job. Like Ihina said one advantage RDM is in e.g.

Player 1: Nuke the mob!
SCH uses Ebullience
SCH uses Immanence
SCH starts casting Thunder V on Blah Blah.
SCH: Aww *** I didn't time that skill-chain right lemme try again!
SCH uses Ebullience
SCH uses Immanence
Player 1: Cursna me I'm Doomed!!!
SCH: Ugh I'm kinda out of stratagems...gimme a few seconds!
Player 1 falls to the ground.

My original point was that things like "crazy Fast Cast", MP efficiency etc...which were unique to the RDM job class at one point in time aren't necessarily the case anymore.

That's what the *** gets for not bringing hallowed water!

My point is exactly that i was not comparing jobs and just answering the topic question which is; how/when/where can i use rdm?

its irritating to read over 4 pages: "you can use rdm for salvage" then someone say but sch is so much better for this and that!!!!

can you use rdm for salvage. yes. can you clear. yes. end there. YES BUT I CANT DUAL CLEAR WITH RDM!!!!! does that mean rdm will not be allowed in a normal 3 man party? not at all.