For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Unless I'm mistaken, if that were true, THF wouldn't need any Dual Wield gear to cap delay reduction assuming capped gear haste(25% haste) and capped magic haste(43.75%) Your only 11.25% away from the cap after the first two.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Magic_Haste

Doh yes I think you are right. I was thinking you needed 15% delay reduction from DW for some reason, my bad.

Wrong. DW has absolutely nothing to do with any form of haste.


DW and Haste are multiplicative, not additive. Haste reduction (ie: 1 - Haste%) times DW reduction (1 - DW%) cannot go below 0.2 (80% delay reduction). If you have 60% haste, you still need 50% DW to cap delay reduction. (1 - 0.6) * (1 - 0.5) = 0.4 * 0.5 = 0.2


Not sure where you got that from, but no, dividing by two has absolutely no place in any sort of delay calculation. The only thing I can think of that uses /2 is Fast Cast, in terms of how much Fast Cast reduces recast timers (as opposed to cast timers).



If you have basic capped haste (25% gear, 43.75% magic), you need 36% DW to cap delay. With 22% DW in gear, plus trait, you need 63% in haste to cap delay (25% gear, 38% magic, or 19% gear, capped magic).

I got it from the dual wield formula posted on BGwiki.


Would that formula not mean that an individual weapon would have 12.5% delay reduction from 25% DW then?

Short version:
(Suppanomimi + Nusku's or Patentia) + (Double March and Haste 1 from Trusts) = Capped Attack Speed, or extremely close enough that you really shouldn't worry

i119 Mandau Mercy Stroke is outperformed by rudra's? That's depressing.

They made the FTP on Rudra's very disgustingly high. Mandau still an amazing weapon. If they would ever adjust aftermaths...

No, it would not. The division by 2 is to account for the fact that you added the delay of two weapons together before you did the DW calculation, and that the result you're looking for is the delay per each individual hand. 25% DW is still 25% DW, regardless.

Mercy Stroke can still beat Rudra's Storm at 1000 TP on things that fSTR is uncapped on, but the further you go over 1000 TP Rudra's catches up pretty quick.

The new gloves from WoE look like a new tp set.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Nomkah._Mittens_%2B1

.

EDIT, you fixed it~

.

I got a Canny Cape with DEX/AGI+1, DW+2 and crit. dmg +2%
Not sure what the caps are but that seems pretty good to me.

The cap is 20% of your original attack speed. Depending on how much (if any) Haste you're getting from mages and sambas, you might not need much Dual Wield.

The formula to figure out how much Dual Wield you need to cap attack speed is (unless my math is poop):
Dual Wield needed to Cap = 1-(0.2/(1-TotalHaste%))

Remember that THF gets a default 25%.

Does anyone have some gearsets they use for Incursion? I ain't started doing it yet, and I am wondering how to get the best out of my THF when I do. (No Mandau)

On the lowest difficulty, pretty much whatever you'd use in 119 Skirmish should be ok. As the difficulty goes up, you'll want more and more accuracy (the normal enemies can be /checked so you're not totally clueless).

I also highly highly highly recommend that if you're a Thaumas Coat fan, leave it at home. There is a considerable amount of aoe damage, an irregular hate system, as well as plenty of frustrating enfeebles. Without any real protection, you sorta become a liability, especially at higher difficulties.

Yes, I only use Thaumas for older content (dynamis etc). I just made a max evasion set (1007, 443 skill) and I have a -dt set which I could use also.

Qaaxo gives you nice damage and Def/eva just did 124 lvl I did not die...well till we all wiped to Megaboss lol

Boosted it to 1017 (443 skill) with this set. Not the best but it will do for now. Qaaxo Path A, Kaabnax with Evasion+10.

ItemSet 328337

You should need 37% dw to cap, or 12% from gear.

Slots with DW available that aren't stupid choices are: ranged, earrings, back, waist.

range: 3%
earringsx1: 5%
earringsx2: 7%
back: 2%, 3%
waist: 5%, 6%

Keeping things simple, double earrings+patentia sash will cape you, leaving you the option to use Honed Tathlum and Letalis mantle.

Trying to work this out.

Mandau(176) + Izhiikoh(200)
Haste 1
Ghorn Marches (Advancing and Victory)
25% haste in gear

This would mean 13% DW in gear?

My question is
1.) what changes can I consider if haste 1 > haste 2?
2.) include haste samba (Calculator I'm using says I don't need any DW gear if I use this)

Two marches and haste is capped magic reduction, paired with 25% from gear means you would need 36% Dual Wield to cap, or 11% from gear.

The only change you can consider if you go from Haste to Haste II is that you now only need a +3 Victory March to have the same result - anything more goes to waste because it is capped, so your Dual Wield gear would remain the same, but you could have your BRD sing something else in place of the second March.

Haste Samba is included as JA haste, so unlike say Haste II it can actually increase your overall haste in this scenario. This gives you 0.7375 total haste, which would require an additional ~23.8% dual wield to cap, which means you don't need gear.

So considering most the time I go thf/dnc in low man setups I wont need to worry about putting DW into my gear setup providing I keep haste samba up? or is the other way better?

With double Gjallarhorn Marches only, you'd need a total of 54 Dual Wield (29 from gear) to cap attack speed.
With Haste Samba going, you'd need 48 (23 from gear).

So how chiner's+1 and windbuffet+1 would fit in our sets? :3

Basically any time you're capped delay reduction (i.e. party buffs with a real BRD), Windbuffet+1 destroys other options.

Ghorn Marches + Haste is capped Magical haste, and you can cap total delay reduction with either Haste Samba or 11% DW gear. Even hitting 10% DW gear (say, Boomerang + 7% earring set) will be close enough where using non-DW options like Windbuffet beats DW.

For solo, you'll still be uncapped delay reduction even going all out on DW gear, so it's worth using the DW options. Even WITH trusts (who only have tier I Marches), it takes /DNC Samba plus 25% DW from gear (50% total, 25% trait + 25% gear) to cap reduction, so you'll still want a pretty heavy DW set. Obviously even more true when you're truly solo without trusts, like solo Dyna/Salvage.

For THF in particular, it's also worth considering that even in group content you might get stuck outside the main DD party without optimal buffs, so you might still need DW if you're not getting double marches.