Quetzalcoatl.Glecent said: »
Sylph.Malizia said: »
Hide
Does not work against NMs.
Does not work against NMs.
Hide does work on NMs. I use it to hide NMs in Dynamis.
Guess I should try it against imps and see what happens.
For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief
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For the Shinies! A Guide for Thief
Hide does work on NMs. I use it to hide NMs in Dynamis. Guess I should try it against imps and see what happens. Sylph.Malizia said: » Quetzalcoatl.Glecent said: » Sylph.Malizia said: » Hide Does not work against NMs. Hide does work on NMs. I use it to hide NMs in Dynamis. Guess I should try it against imps and see what happens. Just adding to this, you can TA while hidden without losing hide. Hide won't work if a mob follows by scent.
So if you tried to use it on an NM that does that, that's why it didn't work. Orcs are a good example. They are sight mobs, but they follow by scent. So unless if there's water/double ice weather, hide won't work. Hide isn't hard to understand. Great job on the updates definitely shaping up nicely ,
Think the procing section should get into a little more detail on the availability of procs. As I remember Thf can get katana red proc (with merits/+skill). Also correct me if I'm wrong but there are 8 blue procs from thf without counting subjob. I would also recommend to sub rng if your going for blue proc during piercing time to increase your chances with the addition of Sidewinder and Slug Shot along with the daggers ( great for shin and Rani solo brews ). The problem with Katana procs if you're limiting yourself going /NIN. I now do red proc NMs with THF/WAR, NIN, and WHM. This allows me to cover everything but Great Sword (have Ark Scythe), which I personally think the Treasure Hunter for pop items outweighs.
You need to state within the guide perhaps that the MDT set is for whm shellra 27.5ish% as that set only provides 22% with say a sch or rdm shell 5 you'd be better of with mermans of course. I said this further down but its better if the guide is changed to perhaps static/mermans or 2x mermans. Shound be fairly obvious to most people I guess.
Thurandaut Boots could be noted as an option for PDT set, as for a hybrid evasion set you take the goal tp set and swap to boxers/scouters rope/torero torque and dring over rajas and leave the rest that will do the job fine for any evasion tanking needs you have. Ive thought about other combinations from using ocelot trousers to capping haste elsewhere and using af3+2 feet but just these swaps seem to suffice whist giving a good dd output. If you're terror'd and getting spanked or something can always swap into additional pdt gear then. I also provided some information for evisceration on page 2 for a possible VW set and an abys set, that vw set should out perform exenterator under "certain" conditions... needs more testing, use af2+2 feet for *** charge evis over thaumas. Evis can have alot of variations depending on which gear people have access as there are set bonuses from skadi and athos to consider as well as buffs and which mob you're fighting etc. edit: chocolatzy(sp?) head for mdt goal set also may as well if you're gonna carry it for ta mercy too. Bendis hairpin and Panthalassa Sash could also provide other options for a hybrid eva build. duos said: » Also correct me if I'm wrong but there are 8 blue procs from thf without counting subjob. I counted seven? Shadowstich, Dancing Edge, Shark Bite, Evisceration, Skullbreaker, True Strike, and Spinning Attack. Did I miss one? mcclane said: » Hide won't work if a mob follows by scent. So if you tried to use it on an NM that does that, that's why it didn't work. Orcs are a good example. They are sight mobs, but they follow by scent. So unless if there's water/double ice weather, hide won't work. Hide isn't hard to understand. This isn't completely true. Hide is hit or miss for me against Orcs/Yagudos/Goblins in Dynamis, and there isn't ever any water or weather present to nullify scent. If it were as cut and dry as that, I wouldn't have had a Vanguard Visionary chase me halfway across Dynamis-Qufim earlier tonight. /cry The cases where it failed on Yagudo and Goblins would be due to aggroing/linking something with pets.
Cerberus.Aydogan said: » mcclane said: » Hide won't work if a mob follows by scent. So if you tried to use it on an NM that does that, that's why it didn't work. Orcs are a good example. They are sight mobs, but they follow by scent. So unless if there's water/double ice weather, hide won't work. Hide isn't hard to understand. This isn't completely true. Hide is hit or miss for me against Orcs/Yagudos/Goblins in Dynamis, and there isn't ever any water or weather present to nullify scent. If it were as cut and dry as that, I wouldn't have had a Vanguard Visionary chase me halfway across Dynamis-Qufim earlier tonight. /cry As Suji stated, if whatever you aggroed has a pet, Hide will not work. The example stated with water/ice weather is just a general example, as everyone knows Dynamis is constant dark weather. I haven't done this in ages so feel free to correct me if this method doesn't work anymore. Back before ToAU I used to have a WHM friend deodorize me in Bibiki Bay just so I could Hide SATA Dhalmels (which track by scent), so unless the mechanics somehow changed regarding this, granted no pets you should be able to Hide Orcs as long as you use a Deodorizer (if you really, really wanted to Hide them). Cerberus.Aydogan said: » mcclane said: » Hide won't work if a mob follows by scent. So if you tried to use it on an NM that does that, that's why it didn't work. Orcs are a good example. They are sight mobs, but they follow by scent. So unless if there's water/double ice weather, hide won't work. Hide isn't hard to understand. This isn't completely true. Hide is hit or miss for me against Orcs/Yagudos/Goblins in Dynamis, and there isn't ever any water or weather present to nullify scent. If it were as cut and dry as that, I wouldn't have had a Vanguard Visionary chase me halfway across Dynamis-Qufim earlier tonight. /cry Lol, GG uninstall. How hard is it to understand basic game mechanics? Also, in the OP the poster talks about using certain things if going for single-hit damage in the solo SA and solo TA sets. I wasn't aware you could proc a triple attack in a single swing. I think the single hit notes for SA and TA are about maximizing spike dmg on SA and TA, rather than providing a decent boost and not slowing the next attack round down like the posted sets do.
Bismarck.Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh said: » Also, in the OP the poster talks about using certain things if going for single-hit damage in the solo SA and solo TA sets. I wasn't aware you could proc a triple attack in a single swing. edit: yes! what foxmulder said :) Was looking at new possible tp sets with SoA gear. The new synthable dagger looks to possibly beat pug, and I was wondering how this set looks?
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/296167 so far it seems barely ahead of current ideal set. Phoenix.Suji said: » The cases where it failed on Yagudo and Goblins would be due to aggroing/linking something with pets. He said it was a Vanguard Visionary, which is a Red Mage Yagudo and therefore no pets. Normally hide works perfectly with yags but there are the occasion where it just fails When Seekers came out recently, I was already in the final stage of mandau, which I finished. Now I am in the process of doing trials and collecting funds back up slowly so I can 99 it when the time comes. I guess my question is this...
Will it still be relevant to take to 99? It seems to me with all a relic offers besides base damage, yes. But are the new daggers now the best off hands? Is taking twashtar to 99 even worth it anymore? Is my 99 Str dagger obsolete as an off hand? I also have the corusacanti, is this also a dead dagger? Where is the rest of the thief community standing on these questions? The answer to all those questions is: thief knife!
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pooter3001 said: » Was looking at new possible tp sets with SoA gear. The new synthable dagger looks to possibly beat pug, and I was wondering how this set looks? http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/296167 so far it seems barely ahead of current ideal set. So swapping Skadi's visor +1 and patentia sash for Thurandaut chapeau (which is said to have 3% dual wield) and Twilight belt, we get: before: DEX 13, Attack 18, Store TP 9, Haste 7%, Dual Wield 5%, Crit Rate 3% (set bonus) after: STR 13, DEX 13, Accuracy 10, Haste 7%, Dual Wield 3%, Double Attack 2% or: before: atk 18, stp 9, dw 2, crit 3% after: str 13, acc 10, da 2 From that alone, I'd eyeball that the 18 attack and 3% crit will be way more useful than the 13 strength and the accuracy (which most of the time you won't need). Plugging it into my spreadsheet verifies that - most of the time, the old set wins, except when your accuracy is completely terrible (Ig-Alima and Legion). Comparing the two daggers is much harder to eyeball, but the spreadsheet shows a clear advantage for pugiunculus over tzustes knife +1 for all but the hardest monsters (where accuracy is needed again). But Pugiunculus isn't even the best offhand - a 99 Twashtar is, and that is far better than the Tzustes +1. So for right now the best current tp set and 99mandau/99twashtar are still the best sets. Good to know time and effort is not all for nothing. Wonder if they do make upgrades for E/R/M what they will be.
Someone who uses the spreadsheet can doublecheck this, but if you don't need the dex from skadi head+1, Chocaliztli Mask should be better, assuming you went the patentia sash route and need every point of haste you can get. If you're offhanding a 99Twashtar, you can afford to give up dex from the head slot and still cap dDex.
Bismarck.Ihina said: » Someone who uses the spreadsheet can doublecheck this, but if you don't need the dex from skadi head+1, Chocaliztli Mask should be better, assuming you went the patentia sash route and need every point of haste you can get. If you're offhanding a 99Twashtar, you can afford to give up dex from the head slot and still cap dDex. Aye Choca beats skadi, even considering the 3% crit when using 99R/E. But by very little on mob lv 100 or less, skadi +1 still seems to tin on mobs 100+ in Lv. Think may as well stick to skadi +1. are you using motenten's spreadsheets, or some other one? I've been using motenten's, and I'm assuming something must be off in my sheets to cause the difference.
I'm using Motenten's THF2 spreadsheet. I'm also using Mithra THF/WAR, if the race/subjob combination is different for you.
Oh, I also changed his spreadsheet to use 20% for the raider's armlets +2 Sneak Attack bonus, but that doesn't affect melee DPS. Worth mentioning though, since in the spreadsheet I downloaded it was set at 15%. Otomis said: » When Seekers came out recently, I was already in the final stage of mandau, which I finished. Now I am in the process of doing trials and collecting funds back up slowly so I can 99 it when the time comes. I guess my question is this... Will it still be relevant to take to 99? It seems to me with all a relic offers besides base damage, yes. But are the new daggers now the best off hands? Is taking twashtar to 99 even worth it anymore? Is my 99 Str dagger obsolete as an off hand? I also have the corusacanti, is this also a dead dagger? Where is the rest of the thief community standing on these questions? not to all your questions (and the 99 emp was already awnsered ^^) but a mandau 99 will allways be worth alot compard to lv 95. It not only wins some weapon base dmg and 5att.. it gets its nice 15% more MS dmg over the 95 version! Woohh! Since MS will be your main WS like 85% of the time (atleast when you duo with another dd and you can SA and TA whenever you want hehe) Those stacked mercy are sick.. even more when they close a darkness chain. I allways duo with my bf and he has kannagi99.. and opens :) Bismarck.Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh said: » Lol, GG uninstall. How hard is it to understand basic game mechanics? A bit delayed, but I just noticed this gem of a contribution. No need to be a douche. It's true that I didn't fully understand the breadth of this rarely used job ability, but the source I referenced (BGWiki) failed to mention anything about pets. In case you were mistaken, it's OK to educate without insulting. Actually Aydogan, while we're still talking about Hide, I've had hide fail before against Yagudos that didn't have pets. It wasn't because the Hide itself failed - instead, the Yagudo was starting the swing animation just as I used Hide, so it hit me *after* my Hide went, and because it hit me my invisible wore off.
That was years ago, so maybe that kind of annoyance doesn't happen anymore. I was very disappointed when it happened though :p and shortly after, very dead. Sylph.Malizia said: » I'm using Motenten's THF2 spreadsheet. I'm also using Mithra THF/WAR, if the race/subjob combination is different for you. Oh, I also changed his spreadsheet to use 20% for the raider's armlets +2 Sneak Attack bonus, but that doesn't affect melee DPS. Worth mentioning though, since in the spreadsheet I downloaded it was set at 15%. it must be simply the fact that i'm using an older version, but I cannot match your results under any scenario(no buffs, capped buffs, /war, /dnc, DC, T+). Guess i'll go look up more up to date versions. I generally just add new gear myself and don't bother with redownloading each time. Edit: using the newer version does correct the results, now I'm more just wondering what changed between the two to cause that. Sorry, late to the show on my comment about hide, but i wanted to clear up some of what I have been reading. Hide will shed hate on anymob that isn't a pet or has some sort of true-aggro attribute. The confusion is because you must be protected against it's form of tracking before you use hide.
Example: Yagudo aggro by sight, do not track by scent. Hide is enough because all you are doing is the visibility side of hide. Orcs aggro sight, but track by scent. You can hide an orc by having deoderize cast on you before hiding. Quadavs aggro by sound, but do not track by scent. If you get farther enough away and pop a sneak oil and then hide, you can shed hate. It all depends on how far you want to take Hide and how much crap you want to keep on your character. Most people use it as a utility to start a fight with sneak/feint/TH gear and then hide so they can run at the mob at the start of the fight and swap to dd gear for a high chance to proc TH from the go. Anyhow, wanted to comment because i use hide a lot for different things and sometimes if i'm losing a fight, i will pop a sneak oil and hide if *** goes south. ~Skye My STR dagger beats 85 Twashter and 90 barely wins over. I would highly recommend one in the weapon choice section if thats the case most of the time.
Also it makes a great sub choice for Mandau owners whom does not want to build twash all the way too 99. There is also a good analysis of Mandau by Byrth from Which Relic Should I Make?: A Guide you might consider useful Mandau Analysis provided by Byrth |
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