Job Balance?

You are talking about a very small handful of fights dude. Why would you lose a buff? GEO GEO DD DD WHM COR is standard setup for high ilevel UNM fights. Alternate entrust indi-haste and MG to cap magic haste (or bring a BRD instead of COR.) That leaves you with another entrust to do precision so you can keep vex/attune, torpor/frailty. This leaves you with a loss of fury or a random indi-stat spell which isn't a huge loss, you can supplement it by boosting corresponding rolls via a job gained (DRK for Chaos, SAM for stp roll) or a gained unique trait (WAR JA's, reliable stun, angon etc.) You are looking at it black and white and with a complete bias.

This is only assuming you can't reset JA's, you can easily go with one BLU (or none) and reset JA's in between ambuscade or high tier Escha NMs. The rest are low tier crap you don't even need to worry about being optimal on.

Would I be correct in summing up the last bit as:
"Other jobs can achieve my self-haste by adding trusts/buffs not needed by my Blu."

Is it not obvious that this is unbalanced?
And this doesn't even account for the defensive benefits.
C'mon people...
Y'all whined about Bst because it could do things no other jobs could do. Well, Blu can also do things no other jobs can do. It's okay to love your job. But please recognize your hypocrisy.

I hate when people just post to stir things up in these threads.


BST is still exactly the way it was with an an inconvenience of range now. Now you just have to pay attention and run in/use DT. Instead of basically being half-afk and standing as far as you want spamming two macros.

Except BLU has always had that? Back when Refuling and Animating Wail were around... You could say the same thing. "Other jobs can achieve my self-haste by adding buffs not needed by my BLU" I don't see how its unbalance when SE intended it from day1 and the job is a hybrid...

BST was complained about due to its OPness and nothing changed about it. That's why before this evasion nerf you still saw BSTs killing certain Reisenjima NMs using their 1hr's and no BLU could touch those NMs. They still do it and its a major reason SE nerfed the revitalizers.

Entrust has 10 min recast if I remember correctly, if you used entrust for both precision and haste from 2 GEO in a fight to accommodate acc need and haste need, in next pop there will be a time that entrust is down and unable to cap haste nor acc anymore. That's probably more dps lose than whatever DRK or WAR brings to the table.

DRK only brings 5% attack boost for chaos roll if COR has relic hat, far inferior to frailty potency. SAM also only brings 5stp, which doesn't make up the difference of losing haste/precision or frailty at all.

It's quite unlikely that pug will have access to aeonic BRD, bringing BRD over COR for march is even more dps lose without chaos/sam. Not to mention bringing BRD over COR means DRK SAM no longer brings roll boosts.

Most importantly their 1200 WAR DRK MNK SAM probably still has less acc than their 1200 BLU.

If you cast aside personal preference to DD jobs, or player gear/skill differences, from a complete objective pov, assuming in pug and mediocre geared DDs, I just don't see adjusting buffs to accommodate WAR DRK MNK SAM is a more logical choice than just shout for BLUs.

You are basically just trying to come up with with ways to accommodate WAR DRK MNK SAM or whatever DD job to fit their needs, but that is the benefit of doing so? Are you going to gain more dps by moving around buffs, invite (most likely none aeonic)BRD over COR to accommodate WAR DRK MNK SAM's haste and acc needs, and make WHM do more work? It seems to me that the most logical solution is to shout for BLU instead.

You don't need to sacrifice a buff slot to accomplish same amount of haste from Animating wail. WAR DRK MNK SAM gets same amount of haste from a WHM as BLU self casting Animating wail. WAR DRK MNK SAM doesn't get same amount of haste as BLU self MG/EF unless you make GEO haste bubble it.

That is the difference.

Real question here is, why are you advocating nerfing for mediocre/bad players? Sure, they make up a lot of the shouts, but who wants to join a bad/meh party anyway?

I don't assume PUG or mediocre geared DDs, I don't play with them. When has that been the foundation for whether or not a job needs a nerf? It's always been based off end-game max level.

Plus, if you're bad at this game in 2016, there is no hope for you.

SE has been balancing jobs based on the majority of player though, not Draylo nor Stamos.

That's why they nerf BST.

Again, you guys are looking at this issue from top end player's pov, instead of entire community. Top end players are minority, not majority.

Wrong dude, they "nerfed" (not really) BST due to what they were doing in the top end of content... BST was 1hring anything relevant and crushing it into the ground with 0 care. I remember Escha just came out and BSTs were killing the hardest NMs with little effort with their pets and sitting in the back eating cheetos while spamming dawn muslims. They STILL do this to NMs that BLU could previously not even touch with the best ACC buffs.

They nerf'd BST because they were standing out of range making them impossible to kill, while killing the hardest fights in the game. Negating any risk.

I really wish I can be far far away safe and spam unleash via revitalizer. That sure sounded fun :(

This entire issue created a problem of mediocre geared WAR SAM DRK DRG MNK not getting invite, and pug only shout for BLU. And that's why it's a job balance issue.

I think you are anti nerf because this issue doesn't affect you. But it affects other people, that's the point.

So if you're a returning player main WAR DRK MNK SAM DRG, and just don't have the gear to accomplish enough acc, how are you going to compete with BLU?

They don't have the gears to get enough acc to compete with BLU, and they don't get invite to content because they don't have acc, thus they don't get gears to compete....you know, catch 22.

In the end they only have 2 choices to make progress:
1. Lv support.
2. Lv BLU, get cp, which gives them acc advantage when trying to get an invite.


A lot of ppl just choose No.2. So how is it not a job balance issue? Telling ppl that's affected by it to *** themselves because it doesn't affecting you doesn't solve anything, the issue persists.

There is a third option, which is make your own pt and come whatever you want. Which I will forever say is the best option. If they're lacking gear for Acc they have other problems. Reisen augments, unity etc have pretty significant upgrades from t1s and low level unity that you can make your own party to.

So now you are bouncing from the haste on MG to the trait bonus ACC. Did you not read the previous pages where people already explained its not that much more than certain other jobs? You don't set all the spells for the highest trait or it hurts you in other areas. I don't even know why a returning player would jump into the hardest content, it isn't possible and never was. It's a lot easier to gear up now for any DD than it has been in any other era of the game. SE has also added a lot of different gear to help those other jobs get the ACC needed via Ambuscade etc.

Your main issue is the hive-mind bandwagon that the people shouting have. That same x job can start the shout themselves after seeing/reading the strategy and do the content without the need for bias. It is possible to gear up to a respectable acc level for most of the content a returning player would need. Then we also fall back on the idea that SE themselves needs to add buffs to these jobs instead of nerfs. Which they have started doing recently and will probably continue to do.

Making your own pt doesn't suddenly give WAR DRK MNK SAM the acc and haste advantage(both job trait wise and geo buff wise) blu has.

You can make all you want, you still have to invite brd for march, or sacrifice frailty to keep yourself hasted.

You only need a couple people to regear yourself. You can go 3 people, and 3 trusts. So, this returning player scenario would have to be someone from many years ago, that was never really into the game. The game is easier than ever to get into. You get sparks gear and a 119 weapon from RoE. In the 3/3 scenario you are capped haste, and easily can take down things to get your gear up to par to create your own parties.

Unless your scenario is basically, person has been gone for years and expects to use the same gear from abyssea era. Then, that is a personal issue with them for not asking for help or researching.

Why again are you sacrificing frailty? What content are you even talking about? A returning player would need UNM, Escha or high-tier battles probably. They are pretty easy and you wouldn't need such extreme acc buffs required to beat it. By the time they gear up via that content they should have enough ACC in gear/augments to not rely on such extreme measures as an entrusted indi-dex or what not to compete.

That is pretty much all you gain by using a BLU over other DD party buff wise, entrust indi-stat or precision/fury. The COR could even random deal and get the JA back to recast it lol. Then at that point you are grasping at straws if you suggest the BLU is such a huge bonus by doing another entrust spell for a small gain.

The only person that isn't reading is you, I already mapped out geo bubble assignment to show that blu gains more frailty bubble. Also none of my posts assumes people set highest tier of acc bonus, just acc 1(+2) JT.



It's quite a bit of assumption to assume I never invite none blu DD. I do, and I took player gear and skill difference into consideration when creating parties, and are often quite flexible with pt setup to accommodate my resources.

That being said, this is a forum discussion, it's not possible to consider individual difference when discussing an issue thats been happening in FFXI. Everything should be discussed more objectively.

None of the anti blu nerf people have presented objective opinion on the advantage of inviting WAR MNK DRK SAM over BLU when creating PUG. All the say so far is:

1.PUG suck and I don't play with them.
2.My drk war mnk sam outparses blu.
3.Just change buffs.
4.Just make parties and invite yourself.

I'm sorry but none of above opinion isn't going to make WAR DRK MNK SAM more appealing to PUG.

Do you have current acc requirement for UNM 135 data? Pretty sure pre eva nerf both acc bubbles were used especially if you do it on pre reisen gear DD.

Also just want to point out a lot of pug can't even beat Sarama.

That content isn't something a returning player would jump right into. It also isn't as extreme in the acc after recent gear upgrades via Ambuscade etc. Not to mention the recent evasion change for mobs.

I only presented scenario that I observed, returning players have hard time beating Sarama lv of NM, and often choose blu as first job to gear if they are not into geo whm cor, so they can have a solid dd job to make progress on and able to aoe for cp. After they 1200 via aoeing they will have decent output to participate content on DD jobs.

I think that's how blu got bandwagoned.

I think the point we're trying to make Afania is, if someone properly progresses their character instead of assuming they can kill everything with old gear then the whole accuracy point is fairly moot. Kill Zitah nms for armor > kill sky for abjuration gear or go to reisen and augment your gear. Mixing in lower level UNM gear, such as Cacoethic Ring, Kentarch Belt etc.

People need to see this, PSA. Keep seeing the usual buzzwords "1200 ACC BLU ONRY"

I had forgotten about Gorpa-Masorpa's sensitivity training, thank you.

Except it's not really. Plenty of jobs do not have access to as much accuracy armor, and have to put forth a ton of effort just to get there.

My max acc is:

1346 primary
1322 auxiliary

I can probably get a few more (like...3 more from Chirich+1) but that's the absolute max accuracy I can possibly achieve. I know BLU's can beat that.

I can also only reach those numbers because I have over a billion gil in armor, the vast majority of people will never achieve that. A BLU, in the BLU guides "Zahak Reborn (Highest Tier DD Spec)" you get Accuracy Bonus IV, which is acc+48. BLU is also on the carmine+1 set, which outpaces even Adhemar+1 with its head/leg combo, which is +28 over my Damp Tam/Adhemar+1 pants, oh yeah and the carmine+1 head/legs is like 30mil, easy entry cost. So BLU has a cheap/auto acc+76 over many DD jobs, which is effectively a personal Dunna Indi-Precision locked on it. And it then gets to have Store TP V (which only Samurai can beat) and more Triple Attack than anyone but THF so it isn't sacrificing everything to reach that accuracy.

That's a big gap. And while sure, maybe max acc isn't as necessary as it used to be in a number of situations, it means a BLU can swap down to more DA/TA/STP/etc. well before others can. Or it can switch to eating meat and basically ignore using sushi, giving them DRK-level attack while eclipsing DRK in accuracy, STP and multi-attacks.

As an overall, here are jobs and their ranks in the major components of DD:

Attack Bonus:
DRK > BLU > WAR > inconsequential

Store TP:

SAM > BLU > Inconsequential

Extra attacks:

THF > WAR > BLU > Inconsequential

Accuracy Bonus:

RNG > BLU > DNC/NIN > RUN > Inconsequential

Skillchain bonus:

DNC > BLU > SAM > Inconsequential

Critical Attack Bonus:

THF > DNC/BLU > Inconsequential

And then added bits:

Defense:

PLD > BLU > Inconsequential

Magic Evasion:

RUN > BLU > Light Armor DD > Heavy Armor DD

Note: All these values are based off of the Zahak Reborn DD spec, I am not assuming BLU can use all its spells at all time, and also considering the gear options of the job.

The origins of BLU, as my good pal Saevel used to say, was you got to pick and choose what to excel at that day. With the Job Trait bonus you get too many cookies from too many cookie jars. You don't choose what you excel at, you excel at everything a DD could ever want, with the option at reducing that slightly to be better support than any DD could ever hope to be. This would be perfectly fine in say a single player game, like this was FFV and BLU is simply the Bare class after you've mastered every melee in the game, but this is an MMO, and a strive for balance should be made.

That said, BLU's major imbalance is the self-capping solo-haste and its defenses. You can counter some to many of the BLU's strong traits by BLU's closer to iffy skillchain properties. While CDC self chaining is ezmode solid numbers, it doesn't play well with other jobs and is only a two-step. Utilizing Umbra is pretty poor for BLU last I checked and it has no fusion property at all. The issue is BLU is presently made to play only with other BLU's or on its own, either because of the haste factor or how CDC operates or both.

And have we really made it this far and not talked about Barrier Tusk? 15% DT II (with some scaling) that's always on with a minor loss in traits (only 3 points to set this). So a BLU can shift their spells for a harder fight and have +75% defense and a 15% DT bonus over any other DD in the game while in TP gear, while also being able to swap into higher mag eva gear than other jobs can because BLU has mage armor options. This gives BLU a step up at mediocre levels that no other job has the potential to match, and an absolutely absurd high cap for a good min/max player.

I lost whatever final summary I wanted to make (think two of them were built into here anyway, whatever) but it's interesting to note I truly am talking to the most career of BLU's in this thread. Prothescar made the BLU guide, Oraen helped in some capacity, and Draylo is such a famous BLU there are people that think that's his only job and he never switches from it (lol) but I'm clearly the biased person here.

remember when DRG was a job

And here comes Draylo trying to pick blus strength and counter it one by one again, instead of present meaningful argument of WAr DRK SAM MNK being superior choice for none top end groups.

Community:"Blu has high acc"
Anti blu nerf crowd:"But evasion nerf!"

Community:"Blu requires less support and heals"
Anti nerf crowd:"PUG sucks!"

Community:"Blu is defensive without needing to sacrifice dd ability much"
Anti nerf crowd:"Blu is always defensive"

Community:"Blu doesn't need haste bubbles"
Anti nerf crowd:"just adjust buffs, invite brds"

Honestly though, how many anti nerf people here regularly organize PUG pt consists of mediocre DD and healers? Because if you do then you would know making sure everyone caps acc and nobody die is more of a priority with PUG. With BLU is much easier to accomplish that if every tell you received are from complete strangers. You guys keep trying to find a way to counter blus strength but does that make other dd more appealing choice?

@Ladyofhonor

People will just pick all of your point about blu strength and counter them one by one instead of looking at the job as a whole, lol.

Blu is PUGs and bandwagon DDs favorite because ALL of it's strength combined together. Playing "but evasion nerf" card isn't going to make war mnk drk sam more appealing to bandwagoners. Only people really love these job will invest gil in them, for people just want a quick solution DD job to make progress and solve their problems(acc, mediocre whm, make parties, aoe burn) blu is still the superior choice.