Job Balance?

Entrusted it is +25 DEX. Yes that is very small boost and does certainly not warrant bringing BLU only. That could also be the difference between bringing a DRK to power up Chaos roll.

At least get your values right if you're going to try arguing a point. Entrust STR/DEX is 25.

With the content in question, BLU isn't even the best DD option aside from arguably 2 of the big 9.

Okay, let's give BRD a STP song. Let's give it a double attack song, too. They are in desperate need for buffs.

MNK's role in content should not be as the punchline in a joke. Make the fTP transfer across all hits and you've pretty much got the new CDC.

Update scythe WSC to have a higher focus on STR.

COR rolls should not be able to be dispelled. A third, half-potency roll would be a welcome addition.

This is just off the top of my head and by no means all of the changes that should be implemented.

Widespread job rebalancing is the answer to the current state of the meta. There are more problems leading to a PUG reliance on BLU than simply their ability to self-cap haste.

I really do not understand the MG hate, everyone benefits from it, like wtf lol.

It's all uninformed parrots just squawking to waste time. The guy didn't even know at first you could cap magic haste with entrust indi haste + haste1. Now people think MG is the biggest boon ever when you can cap haste by yourself with trusts or a simple entrust. It's a bonus that BLU has had for quite some time over other DD, since back when just hasting yourself was a big deal.

From what I've seen, the issue arises from the imagined need for two BLUs to alternate MG in order to maintain their own self-capped haste. Having two slots dedicated to BLU excludes some other DDs from consideration.

I'm not agreeing with the argument, just expressing what seems to be the general consensus.

Make Ukko's a 3 hit.
Change Upheaval to a STR Mod
Fix DRK's Scythe WS Mods.
Add some VIT to Argosy or something.
Make it so 119 R/M/E Base DMG isn't completely crap. 1 Handers can get away with using theirs. 2 Handers just have an expensive paper weight until the weapon is afterglowed.

#NerfBlu2016

*throws tomato*

It's because unless you bring two BLUs it will be down for five minutes for everyone but the BLU. But, if you bring two BLUs you eliminate the need for a GEO or BRD to do indi-haste or marches.

Essentially people are complaining about what used to equate to old merit parties. Sure, an ideal party involved two bards, ridill warriors etc. But, if you brought a ranged only ranger back in the day instead of one of the warriors and the bard had to give him personal songs. The bard complained because of the extra work.

Yeah but the only place that would matter is very select few fights. Something like UNM or spamming a ton of easier content stuff. Things you could probably just use a BRD trust on because they aren't done in a full party or yes for something like high tier UNM BLU would benefit there (although most people bring two GEO for that.)

What lasts long enough for the need of 2 AoE MG though?

Doing several Escha NMs in a row. Or Unity.

So easy content where you could bring a BRD, GEO or trusts and won't impact clear time? I mean you guys really want MG nerfed because you do not want to use other resources that is readily available to you in a click of a button on super easy content? Do you not see how asinine that sounds?

Rebuff THF!! *cough*

Already don't need 2 blues though. Most parties have a geo, and we use to just have the geo entrust haste when MG down.

This x1000, and if you are doing things that isn't efficient for JA reset, such as UNM spam or SR, the "let's entrust haste" argument isn't valid either.

Half of the anti blu nerf player here are probably done with old content like SR or UNM, and generally are well geared enough that they don't need extra buff slot for acc. That's why they pop here screaming "but blu doesn't always win parse, PUGs are just idiot" when there are very good reasons why PUG favors BLU. For people that's still gearing up and struggling to do SR, UNM 135 etc blu is undeniably a very good choice to make things a whole lot easier.

People need to stop playing the "PUG are just idiot" or "blu isn't top dps" card when none of Ladyofhonor, Comeatmebro and my argument claims Blu needs nerf because they top parse all the time.

It's pretty undeniable that PUGs are idiots. I'm not attempting to invalidate issues that people have, but you can't deny that the majority of PUGs are morons. It's just a fact.

For the haste argument, just bring two GEOs. One for fury/frailty and one for vex/attunement or whatever else. The two of them cycle entrust hastes and you now no longer even have to consider BLU.

While I agree with you that H2H WS buff would help, what you're saying here about MA hurting DPS is not nearly as significant as you're making it out to be. With capped magical haste, both MNK and PUP are actually both almost right at capped delay regardless of weapon if they use 0 MA gear. The jobs have about the same pre-gear delay reduction. MNK gets -210 from trait+gifts, PUP gets -205 total from trait+gifts and 20/20 JP.

The calculation differs based on weapon delay, of course, but what it comes down to is that you might be overcapped by MA +1~10 or so if getting capped magical haste, and losing a few TP/hit. Which is a negative, sure... but it's hardly a MAJOR significant impact on overall DPS. Fixing that clearly isn't gonna make MNK suddenly jump up in the current DD hierarchy.

The one major exception from all this is Kenkonken, which has delay-50 on the weapon itself. That's fantastic when not getting heavy magical haste buffs, but it does mean that a KKK PUP getting capped magical haste WILL be significantly overcapped. If you can avoid it, one way around it is just... not getting capped magical haste. With Haste II (or equivalent) only, you need ~MA-40 in gear to perfectly hit cap. Conveniently, there are plenty of pretty good ways to do that (I use NQ Mache Earring x2, Hizamaru+1 head, and Cirque Necklace).

Now... to bring this all back to what might be able to help H2H. Perhaps one part of the answer is to focus on something other than the frequently mentioned "BUFF H2H WS!". What about altering MA so that it gets some extra benefits, like exceeding the normal 80% delay reduction cap (say, up to 90% from MA)? That would give an real reason to want MA gear when you're at/near cap, but still have haste buffs retain value. And it kinda keeps with S-E's apparent fixation on H2H getting more relative contribution to its total DPS from TP phase as opposed to WS.

I dunno, just a thought. I'm sure I'm doing this topic wrong anyway by not just saying BLU NEEDZ NERFS or NO BLU IS FINEE.

Changing the delay cap is a bad idea. Your example wouldn't be a 10% increase, it would be a 100% increase.

1. PUG being morons isn't a reason anti blu nerf in this discussion. This entire argument is about PuG. They are the one who make parties, invite people, and they are just gonna pick blu over othet DD to have an easier time, while suffering no penalty by picking blu over other DD.

There isn't anything you can do to change the fact that PUG likes easy mode, and that alone gives enough valid reason to pick blu.

If pug using easy mode job gets some sort of penalty for picking blu, then I wouldn't say a thing about job balance.

Example, BST is another easy mode loved by PUG, but BST suffers from 10 sec JA recast and slow kills since super revit nerf. Without 1hr most avg BST pt kill speed is horribad that it justifies giving PUG easier time.

If you use BST over melee, you suffer from horrible kill speed. This is pros and cons, and that's balance is about.

Atm PUG picking blu over other dps doesn't lose much, while gaining 1 geo bubble and much higher acc(for a none top end player), that is the reason why PUG favors blu. And how is that balanced?

2. Your geo buffs suggested a low acc situation, that's why it seems like a small lose to use 1 buff slot on entrust haste. If your DD can't hit a thing then your DD geo isn't using fury frailty, instead it's Torpor precision or change one of them to frailty, on top of blus massive acc trait. I don't have numbers atm but I think if DDs are struggling for acc then blu getting one free bubble AND acc trait still outperform equally geared other DD in same lv of gears.

Again, another reason why pug favors blu. You guys need to remember PUG usually aren't player with full hq abj set, 2100 jp, multiple REMA and every DD accessories. They are often returning players that are struggling to get 1100 acc with food. When you have a job that doesn't need top gear, instead it just needs JP to get considerable amount of acc, on top of high defense, and zero penalty to use(unlike bst) it's one of the best choice for pug.

So please stop anti blu nerf from a top end players pov or play "pugs are idiot" card. This entire argument is about PUG, and most people can't deny that BLU gains massive advantage for avg playerbase. In fact many months ago when we had the same blu discussion my only point was Blu is too PUG friendly and even Draylo agreed.

Again, I think blu dps is just fine atm, and I certainly don't want anymore dps nerf to make blu behind. But I think PUG needs to get some sort of penalty for picking blu over other DDs, like BST.

Except you can't base nerfs around the fact that PUGs are retard mouth breathers 80% of the time. That isn't fair at all. It should be based on overall performance in endgame arena. Your situation doesn't even make sense, you should just use 6 BST then if they are that terrible of players. A decent low tier skirmish geared BST can kill at a decent speed, it doesn't take much. I do agree the community relies too heavily on BLU in their shouts (at least on Asura) but it isn't fair to nerf the job simply based on that. I've seen people shouting for BLU onry for fights that are SOLOABLE, they spent 20 minutes shouting for a BLU for D omega/ultima fight.

Should be pretty simple for the game, go back to lv 75 era logic.

Tanks - Tank
Pure DD- DD high dmg
Healing mages - heal
Nuking mages - nuke
hybrid dd- DD + other stuff
support jobs - have ways to support each job

What SE has done overall is unbalanced the game a bit. Yes its not a "BLU" thing, its just a super easy job to pick at because historically it was a hybrid mage dd, thus kind of a jack of all trades. To make it amazing endgame you had to sub THF and cannonball spam etc. Thus tweaking its hydribness for a specific purpose to get really good results, but would gimp every other aspect. Issue now is that it can do it all at once with no change in subjob/gearsets/group. By definition its not a "jack of all trades, master of none" as it once was, its the King of a few of them (DD, AOE nuke, Staple support job for majority of fights). BLU Fills every role above i posted, and most of them at the same time. Thats the definition of overpowered.

This is the same reason people have issue with geo too, technically it supports all jobs, and historically mages never got support expect from ballads, and when cor was introduced its roll. I remember brd was upset then too, and rightfully so. However it was not a huge issue since you still wanted/needed both. Support jobs need more love anyhow, and so nerfing geo wouldnt be wise, it hard enough to get people to playa support job.

I will make a decently lengthy post now on ideas I have for balance; while trying to not nerf anything at current state. I will categorize by roles more than anything, I may view certain jobs as "should be this role" instead and thus cater changes to those roles, aka smn would be the ideal candidate for support job, we have enough DD. Niche game roles never was bad, giving mnk/rdm/blu/nin/brd/drk/war times of their glory to tank for example was fun and cool to see, and really didnt change the game at all since they could only tank a few certain mobs well.

DD ONLY
DRK- at a good spot right now. Have LR give -enmity, reduce -def from it. Have endark last 10 mins. Give absorbs a HUGE macc boost, aka almost unresistable outside of all but the hardest fights.
WAR- Remove -def from WAR main on berserk. Allow them to dual wield naturally.
SAM WS master, should get a 50% dmg job trait bonus to ws's. Have an ability to ignore other players ws's when determining SC. Example, Sam would perform them separately from the parties going sc. Thus 2 sc at same time for more MB variation.
RNG- take the stupid distance nerf/change away like in old days, make it static at any distance. Let Rng be up and close with axe like back in rng burn party days. Increase non magical WS by a lot, this could be a +dmg% job trait for physical ws.
MNK Take tp penalty from MA away, increase MA. Allow mnk to break haste cape like before up to 93%. Change h2h dmg formula for an 15% dps increase from white dmg. Transfer all fTP on ws hits. Have Chi blast do something cool. Remove acc check from counters. ADD a fing h2h grip, I mean seriously? Make said grips give great stats, such as "Kick attacks +250 dmg and +25% activation rate" "Quadruple attack +10%". Mnk always should have had the most hits/round of any job, it punches. Lastly lets ALL multi attack, and aftermaths work on offhand.

HYBRID DD
BLU- Should have a trance mode. "Beastly mode" and "Swordsman". Swordsman keeps BLU as it is today with one exception, no magic (keeps stats, etc from spells). But one spell every 1 min 30 sec. 3 storable charge. This way They could still start a battle with 3 buffs, but not continually have them up UNLESS! "Beastly mode" allows access to ALL blu magic spells, Traits and stats not included past what is set traditionally. This mode also would give -25% mp cost, +25% acc/macc and +25%dmg/mab. Also in this mode all BLU spells will magic burst, BA will just give multiplier. Inflicts a -25% attack and -100 acc effect on melee swings -15% attack speed.
THF- Dmg is fine for a hybrid. Allow TH procs to inflict status -effects, depending on TH strength. Introduce more TH gear for this. For example TH+9 on gear gives on a TH proc -9% to stats. 12 TH = 12% etc.
DNC- Is fine as is. Crazy dd when it wants, decent healer when yours dies.


SUPPORT JOBS
GEO- standard for support jobs, leave as is.
COR- 3rd roll half strength. Add 1min JA for individualized roles. Cant dispel 1st and 2nd roll, can 3rd.
BRD- Mage songs, MAB, MACC, MBDII. JA to allow a special action from SJ "SJ chant" grants aoe effect to pty aura. For example SJ rdm - gives haste1 to pty, SJ nin - grants 10 DW, SJ pld grants MDB+25, SJ war grants DA+15%. obvious testing to not overpower is needed.
SMN- Allow things such as hastega to be chosen from menu, and when used the avatar shows up for 1 second to cast, and isnt dependent on avatar even being called. Do not put these on any BP timers etc, But have a "summon mode" and "supporting mode" like dark arts and light arts. Boost physical BP a bit and magical (10% would balance enough) when in "Summon mode". Basically smn would just do aoe buffing on a smaller time than wont affect much.

TANK JOBS
PLD- Standard for Tank. give them a job trait to their flash, that it reduced mob stats too, like -30 all. Helps endgame mages where RUN is obviously king because of the effect it has to mages.
RUN- honestly is in good shape, just wish they had up to cure3.
NIN- Yonnin shouldn't give any negative effects to acc, give them a bigger enmity boost while under its effect. Have more nijitsu's (self haste, -dt, reflect,), and get rid of tools, its stupid. Shadows on nin main should absorb nearly all aoe attacks in game (#shadows depending, on strength every 400dmg~1shadow). Nin tanking is useless because every aoe wipes all of them now.

HEALING
WHM- Give WHM a job trait -25% dt at 99 with 2100 jp for survivability. just give them erase2 (removes 3 effects).
SCH- Nuking is fine, make storms AOE by default. Could he helpful to have a little better healing abilities, idk what though.
RDM- Really should be a healing class/debuff class again, its needed in game. Merit spells should be normal, add merit spells that would do something better. My Idea is spells that themselves enhance spells such as "Potential" Increase all spell-buffs by +5, "Heavy armor" Increase all defensive spells effects by +10% and duration + 75%.

PET
BST- Good spot for pet jobs. Change ready range to like 12'. Close enough to worry about running in, far enough to do so semi safely.
DRG- Game has so many DD's, Drg could finally become a pet job for real and would be very simple. New polearms, Amazing pet stats, trashy master stats. Have pet 100% of time, JA on 0 sec cooldown to re summon, -10% status penalty for first 2 mins, if re summoned within last 2. Give pet defensive stats close to that of automatons. Have the breath attacks work like ready moves, polearm lowers recast to 10 secs etc, and have them do good dmg that MAB gear on master would affect. (semi new nuker)
PUP- Is where it should be I feel. Solo's well and does pet job stuff great. I am unsure where to change them directly, a little DPS boost on master would be nice. Maybe give a sub menu for healing bot magic etc.

Nuking
BLM- The one and only true nuker, its that way in most any game/book/fantasy/etc. Its fine as is.

Fine, my completely off the top of my head percentage might not be the right one. But IDK, it doesn't seem that unfair to let H2H have some unique advantage over other weapon types, tied to delay (which sorta kills two birds with one stone by also addressing the MA inherently causing overcapped delay issue in buffed scenarios).

I guess we could just say buff WS strength to compete with the CdCs, Resos, and stacked Rudra's of the world. But that's not nearly as interesting to talk about to me ;)

PUG represents majority of playerbase and top end players are minority. From a game design pov I don't understand why balance should base on small group of highly skilled and well geared player instead of majority.

Majority of mediocre geared none blu DD is struggling to compete a spot with blu in same lv gear, why is it not an issue SE should address?

Just FYI, SE has traditionally make adjustments based on majority of playerbase, not small group of top end well geared skilled player. That's why they nerfed bst when PUG bandwagoned it, then nerfed super revit when PUG spams T3 with bst 1hr.

It's something SE, or any game dev has been doing and should do.

BST was doing that to the hardest content in the game... not PUG stuff. SE doesn't always nerf things simply because they are flavor of the month, there are plenty of examples from the past. SCH Modus Veritas, PUP Magic Mortar, DRK twilight scythe, etc.

Bring back the dagger buffs so we cant argue about how stronk rudras is

I don't know why I need to say this again, I really don't. Make your own parties. It is not that hard.

They ARE suffering a penalty by picking BLU. They are losing out on the highest DPS in favor of DPS + utility. You can't claim that you understand BLU is not the best DD and then claim that by replacing the stronger DDs with them that the group is not losing anything.

What is this free geo bubble that we're gaining? 35 accuracy with the T3 trait does not make up for 75 from a Dunna precision or 100 from an Idris. RNG, RUN, DNC, and DRG also have access to Accuracy Bonus 3. BLU is not the only job with accuracy.

Let's talk about this "massive acc trait" that you mention. The vast majority of the time you're not going past tier 3. If you do, you sacrifice defenses and utility. When I set Anvil Lightning for T4, I lose white wind, barrier tusk, and HP bonus trait. That is a balanced trade-off for 13 extra accuracy. If I want to set accuracy bonus 6, I lose A LOT of traits as well as tenebral crush. I can also lose Erratic Flutter. Uh oh, now I need support to hit delay cap. There are actually trade-offs to the job.

Alright, fine, the group needs accuracy. Then replace vex/attunement with precision/torpor. That does not change the ability to cycle entrusted haste.

I have zero pieces of HQ adhemar or amalric gear. I do not have "every DD accessory".

Again, there is a penalty. You don't get to say "slight penalty" or "no penalty" interchangeably.

KKK is the exception to the rule Cap. Really just don't like the fact you really just can't cap your delay unless you're either using KKK or capped magical haste. Whereas any other job that subs nin can cap delay with just haste II.

Free bubble means 1 extra buff slot gained from not having to entrust haste.

Example, if you need acc and vex attunement, your geo do Torpor frailty, vex attunement. Both geo rotate entrust precision.

Entrust precision is +50 acc if I get my numbers right? Adding 35 acc T3 trait like you suggested, blu gets 85 acc more than another DD without acc JT, before counting gear acc.

If you use none blu DD then buff would be torpor precision, vex attunement, rotate entrust haste to hit same lv of haste and hit rate. You lose frailty as the result, which is quite a bit of dps, on top of shadows, easier cures, and more work on whm, and possibly lack of Sc capabilities between ws. Last time I checked, war and drk spamming reso still don't generate sc dps. In that case choosing blu over another higher dps job isn't dps lose anymore.

In situations that you bring vex attunement, you usually won't change it to DD bubbles either.

Also those who ask me to make my own parties, Im not here to present opinion about job balance because I play other DD job(I don't), I gain nothing from nerfing blu and lose nothing regardless how se adjust it. I don't advocate blu nerf because I have war drk mnk sam drg or something.

I'm just saying it from a game design pov. Unless I have the ability to hand out a dd slot to every DD on the planet blu onry issue remain unchanged.