Job Balance?

As a career WHM, I can say being easier on me really depends solely on if the person has any idea what they're doing. If they just full time their DD set, use zerk, and never swap to DT I will let them die for being a moron.

Still, BLU doesn't have unlimited points, and this conversation makes it seem like they do. Everything is situational. If my WHM sucks, I equip White Wind and Winds of Promy. BLU has a lot of utility, but if they're making use of that utility other DDs are generally doing a lot more damage.

There is no BLU issue. Your argument is based on the premise PUG groups are the only thing that exists in this game. Now from a real design pov. Designing "balance" off of that is terrible. If a job is too hard to play for people, that is a different subject, but that isn't what we are talking about.

Like I already stated earlier, PUGs will always take the least resistant / stupid proof strat, even if it kills slower. Wanting to throw BLUs at everything for them, regardless of how good / bad / whatever they are is irrelevant because this is how PUGs work. Nerfing BLU will just inevitably make w/e feel the safest be what they do next. Remember RNG strats before enmity changes?

You guys then try to validate a nerf to a buff that doesn't just hurt BLU, but hurts everyone that plays with that BLU.

Also, you can summon trusts basically everywhere in this game. So the argument you can't be capped haste everywhere is moot even more. Though you guys shouldn't be arguing what BLU can and can't do out of group content as justification for nerf to begin with.

Okay, in your example, yes, an entrusted precision will provide a good bonus. That is a large chunk of additional accuracy to which other DDs do not have access.

Let's use the same situation as I mentioned. In that case, you're losing vex/attunement, not fury/frailty. Dropping fury/frailty is always going to be a blow to DPS potential, it doesn't matter what job you're using.

Again, you have a total of 150 acc from precision/torpor with dunna, 200 with Idris. A BLU is not going to make up that huge of a difference without outside buffs, and even going into a max acc set won't change that.

For the shadows point: you are NEVER going to use Occultation in any fight with AoEs, as it literally becomes a waste of MP and set points.

Easier cures, I'll give you that. Magic fruit is a great single-target and white wind is a costly but powerful AoE option.

But come on, SC properties? We all know just how easy it is to chain these days.

I will concede that when you are just starved for accuracy and the NM does a ton of AoE damage/debuffs, BLU's native accuracy bonus will be a very large boon.


Thank you. For every bit of utility we set, we lose offense. Set points and even spell slots are not unlimited. We also lose DPS by actually using that utility. Stopping to cast White Wind or Winds of Promy not only has the actual cast and MP cost associated with it, but also initiates that dreaded delay.

However, I won't deny that cocoon is busted for only 1 set point and a 1:30 duration 50% defense boost. Hence the previous suggestion with MG and cocoon not stacking.

Probably overlooked from the past because of how pointless DEF was before that update. Afania your posts are just going in a loop at this point, PUG isn't the end all be all of this game. I haven't joined a PUG in over a year for anything.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-- Pastor Martin Niemöller

Seriously, though, how can those of you that cried so hard and so long for a Bst nerf, which resulted in SE taking away something that Bst had had since the job was created, not see that changes should also be made here for the sake of consistency and... balance.
Your arguments are invalid.

BST was different, it needed a deserved adjustment and it never got that. Being able to do what they do (less so now that SE nerfed reviatlizers) was unfair.

Give blus jug pets and ready and they wouldn't have been whining about nerfing it.

BST also used to charm things that would later want to eat them. Your argument is invalid.

No, no arguments are invalid. That's a ridiculous thing to suggest. I disagree with a very large amount of discussion in this forum, but it doesn't invalidate their position. Dismissing people based on differing opinion is how you ruin the implementation of any single thing ever.

If we're arguing for balance and consistency, removing the haste from mighty guard will not fix all of the issues with the DD meta in the game. There are so many more problems at hand. If you want to argue for balance, focusing on one issue is not the way to actually find that balance.

I've already stated my opinion that some changes to BLU would actually be good. But there is so much more to it than that.

I didn't claim PUG, or rather avg player that's not top end, is the only thing exist. I only claim they make up majority of population and design balance issue shouldn't ignore these people because they are the majority.

RNG strat has major cons, ra doesn't kill faster than melee so its still balanced because there's penalty for picking rng over melee. So does bst. All these safe PUG strategy are a lot less efficient.

At least both sides are on the same page that blu is possibly more beneficial to PUG. So the real argument is should SE make adjustment based on 80% of player base? And my answer is yes.

Not to mention, if you're going the utility route for BLU. Tizona becomes the best weapon. Resulting in another DPS loss really from main handing Almace.


As for BST, it still is broken. They literally took nothing away, but gave an inconvenience. It still is a tank and DD at the same time on high level monsters. It is like RUN with Lionheart staying in full DD gear and full DT at the same time with a personal White Mage at the same time. Unless you're bad at BST it really changed nothing for you.

You can't really suggest people to drop vex attunement to accommodate none blu DD when we are talking about PUG here.

When I mentioned SC property I meant CDC light with itself, resolution from war and drk doesn't. Not the difficulty to make sc.

Torcleaver is a strong WS for DRK and it does that with light. Can't speak for WAR but they have other benefits via Savagery/Blood Boon and mighty strikes.

The trait was a silly thing to go after, considering bigger things. The ACC potential on some higher end BLU weapons is obscene.

AG Almace - 37.5

Tanmogayi +1 - 36
Colada - 20-40(45?)
Nibiru Blade - 38.25

The raw ACC stat from AG Relics for two hand users is still 10+ ACC below. And even among other DW jobs, like dancer, their values don't quite reach those heights.

That's the problem though that I'm trying to point out. Doing a nerf to BLU doesn't hurt PUGs. They will just flock to w/e they are told is best next.

I think part of my problem is I've never been a big fan of nerfs in games unless something gets added that is essentially a bug/exploit. I also feel like there are underlining issues, that the problem is much more than BLU and MG. You can't fix the PUG problem by nerfing BLU. I mean honestly. I would love nerf to BLU just so I can beat the stuffing out of Oraen again on parses.

Maybe they should start doing more content again that had VW similarities to make more jobs feel worthwhile, regardless of strength.

Basically, maybe the issue isn't the job, but the content.

Yes we can. We can easily suggest dropping vex/attunement. There are plenty of fights where it doesn't matter in the least. If we're talking convenience for PUGs, there is not much more convenient than fury/frailty on everything and killing it before it kills you. It is the absolute pinnacle of braindead. Throw DDs and buffs/debuffs at the enemy and watch it die.

No, Resolution does not chain with itself without Lionheart. Neither does Pyrrhic Kleos or Expiacion or tons of other WSs. But Ukko's > Ukko's does and Rudra > Rudra or Evis > Rudra or so many different combinations.

I agree that savagery is great, but pug don't pick dps just base on one benefit war provides, instead it's everything.

Anyways, I feel I already said what needs to be said, and this topic has been going on for months, then repop every few weeks. It's pretty much always been same people saying the same things in this discussion. You either agree with the opinion or you don't. So I'm just gonna stop here.

Yes they do.

AG Twashtar - 37.5
Taming Sari - 22 DEX, 20 accuracy. Total of 36.5 accuracy.
Skinflayer - 15 base accuracy, up to 15 DEX, up to additional 20 accuracy (25 with pellucid)

The differences in total acc are miniscule. However, the gains to offensive power are exceptional. 3 TA, 22 STR, 20 attack on a max Taming Sari. Up to 6 TA on Skinflayer. Come on.

Read what I was reply to before making a sweeping statement:


I don't see Entrust as a qualifier there and I was replying to just that statement. So, again, read first before trying to call people out. You just raid Draylo's response.


Also we aren't talking about Mage DPS currently we are talking about Melee DPS. That is such a red herring.

None of those combo's reach BLUs potential +93.75, so not quite as high, as I said.

The point was more to illustrate the disparity compared to two handers who are pigeonholed into AGing a relic to even begin reaching those heights. And only one of those jobs has ACC bonus traits. Which I admittedly didn't directly mention. Good ol' meds.

Holy ***, you ignored literally every aspect of Llewelyn's post and just made up your own. That is impressive.

The original comment to which you replied was discussing solely entrust. Draylo was talking about entrusting haste rather than DEX or STR.

NOWHERE did he mention mages. Erinys is a piercing fight, Teles prohibits CDC usage. Come on, man.

DNC also gets a lot more accuracy in gifts (64 vs 36).

I'm just surprised he didn't include, "you heard it hear guys" this time.

DNC and THF can get up to 83.75 accuracy from a mainhand Twashtar and perfect offhand skinflayer. BLU can get up to 88.75 with a mainhand Almace and perfect offhand Colada. So, yes, a whole 5 accuracy at the loss of 5 TA.

You can't talk about AG Almace and then complain that people need to AG another weapon. That's not even factoring in that AG empyreans are far more expensive than AG relics.

BLU has the potential to negate that with Higher ACC bonus traits if need be.

I didn't ignore I assumed the latter. I was literally replying to Draylo's statement about the Indi-stats being miniscule. Entrust was part of the context but it wasn't what I was implying when I mentioned the stats listed, which should be fairly obvious because I included the Geomancy+ values from idris which isn't applied to entrust, do a little thinking first.


You mentioned 2 of the nine fights that BLU can't be used for while he said that BLU wasn't the best DPS for two of the fights so you missed something that he posted aswell.

I did assume he was talking about how mostly mage dps is used on the Reisen Helm fights, so you are somewhat right in that aspect.


Also Draylo throwin out that I don't know that Indi-Haste (Entrust) + Haste 1 caps haste is pretty dumb, since I do that all the time.

Blu rareley sets more then ACC bonus 3 which is what DNC gets and they get another 64 ACC from job gifts while BLU gets 36 so even setting another Acc trait which would be the absolute max DNC still get more native accuracy.

At the loss of plenty of offensive stats and utility spells, yes.

You are just trying to save face at this point, you were wrong just accept it. We were talking specifically about entrusted spells.