Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0

Pettp says :

Lobo: 2151/2151 (100%) [3000]

when I Deploy it says :

Lobo [Sharpshot Head]: Engaged TP=0 HP%=96


(I change armor when he engages)


so i am confused , how Pettp says 3,000 and Engaged says 0

would have to look into whatever it is that is saying stuff when you deploy

So, with the August 2017 update buffing H2H weapon DMG, PUP became a more viable melee DD job, fighting alongside the puppet. Incredibly, looks like the "MNK update" had the effect of allowing PUP to more than keep up by improving the master's damage and WS numbers, and PUP is a better damage dealer than MNK when you account for master and puppet (purely from a DPS perspective, the aspect where MNK has an edge is if you want to reduce TP feed and use some of the job's defensive perks like Mantra - but to me, that's a situation that parties rarely call for).

Heyoka gear is also relatively new and useful with pet haste and master/pet acc. These changes have caused me to update my sets a bit. Just wanted to drop my sets here to share.

Kenkonken will generally be best for total DPS any time you can reliably maintain AM3 and melee with both master and puppet, since the OA2-3x aftermath affects both. However, PUP does have other strong options: Ohtas are still good, though perhaps less of a clear-cut #1 non-Mythic choice now that we have so many other places to add good master/puppet hybrid gear that has pet haste and you could use a stronger master-focused H2H (though the Acc for master and puppet on Ohtas is still very nice, and makes them a great choice for content with accuracy needs).

From a master-only perspective, Verethragna > Godhands > Comeuppances+1 > Jolt Counters (+1) is roughly the order of precedence. Condemners are also good, but require rather good augments to match Jolts, so YMMV depending on your tolerance for dealing with Oseem.

Sets below do not include Heyoka+1 or extremely expensive HQ accessories (Moonbow+1, Varar+1), but obviously those would warrant using if you're one of the few who has them.

1. Full master TP set:
ItemSet 352730
Notes:
- As a Kenkonken user, I use this set when building to 3000tp to get AM3 as quickly as possible. Then I switch to a hybrid set.
- I don't completely ignore puppet when there are slots with an arguably better master-only option that is still rather close to something with really good pet stats (e.g. Shulmanu Collar, Tali'ah body versus a Herc Vest with very good master augs) - head is somewhat debatable, as you could use something like a master-focused Herculean Helm with TA+4/good Acc... but Tali'ah+1 is a very nice hybrid piece for the slot and I personally tend to stick with it.
- Full master focused back: DEX+20, Acc+30/Atk+20, DA+10% (Stp+10 is also a reasonable choice)

2. Hybrid set (Mythic AM3 up, or a weapon other than Kenkonken or Ohtas):
ItemSet 352731
Notes:
- Some flexibility in pet haste choices, but keep in mind that you'll want to shoot for 26% pet haste (despite possibly not actually hitting cap of 256/1024 gear haste, I also find 25% based on gear listed stats adequate if you have a combination that hits that number)
- For non-Mythic users, you might choose some pieces with a little more multiattack (Samnuha Tights, Herculean gear), which don't give quite as much benefit when OA2-3x AM is up. Crit on Heyoka is pretty good for an AM3 KKK user though, so considering it also has good acc/pet acc I like to lean toward that.
- Cape is DEX+20, Acc+30/Atk+20, Pet Haste +10%

3. Ohtas hybrid set:
ItemSet 352732
Notes:
- Requires less pet haste in non-weapon slots due to the 10% on the weapon itself, freeing you up for a master-only augmented mantle, less pet haste in other slots, etc.

All of the above have some flexibility, particularly in how you account for Accuracy needs (in general, Heyoka is good for any high acc purposes since it has a ton for both master and puppet), and for Herculean augments, etc. But to me, this is a good balance and it's what I use. Please feel free to provide alternative suggestions, I'm not saying these are the ONE WAY to gear (and accounting for both a master and puppet makes that a lot harder to even do for PUP as compared to other jobs trying to rank "best" DPS pieces for each slot) - but it should be helpful for people looking for where to start.

In any case, your key priorities will be:
- Make sure your puppet has capped gear haste
- Make sure you and puppet have sufficient accuracy
- Pet Store TP is perhaps a little less of a priority than it was before August 2017, now that the master got a buff to H2H/WS damage through weapon DMG adjustments - that improves master's standing as far as master:puppet damage ratio goes.

Also, I'd like to update with "standard" pet attachment setups but will need to come back to that in a later post. If anyone has some suggestions on that, please feel free to add :)

Found the issue.

Its the space (Physical Space) where the pet has to be.

If there is not enough space, he will stand by and not attack (if far from mob) or just go and attack nonstop w/o WS :(

just needed to re-position my pet on the proper distance for him to do his stuff :D

Ty tho.

Nope, problem still happening on open area.

Do you guys think it might have to do with trusts? :(


our pet stand around and don't do ***from far away (No Attack / No Weapon Skill / Nothing)

><

Oh so your pet isn't even getting close? Well of course it wont attack from far away (unless it's a ranged one or magic)

It standing away is bunch of normal AI things based on distance deployed, head and/or if using II animators

Wich animator are you using? I hardly use ranged pup anymore long as your within 17.9 yalms pet will be able to deploy. Usualy as dd for certain mobs ve head ss body. Can build tp insainly fast then deal multiple random ws physical and ranged while up close.

RNG Pet.

both our pets are on RNG

They will either DD up close, not WS, or run away from mob (Animator PII) and stand there like "Um........" not Attack or WS :(

sometimes they do same but are fine when they run away, they attack normally and WS on cue.

not sure if its the trust, the game or update ><

Just getting Frustrated at it.

we even try to "Retrieve" > run away a bit > "Deploy" (Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't)

just making this experience of duo-ing JP a very stressful and frustrating one for both Me and Mysticat.

Are you swapping animators in macros? thatll cause the not wsing part up close. and using PII at all will make it stay out of range, though it should still range attack.

Yeah there is a glitch where animator swapping can semi permanently make your pet do nothing but auto attack. SE deleted all bug reports links to videos of it being done and talk of it jp side and have basically just left it at that. Only way to really "fix" it is to deactivate and activate and don't restart the glitch. Been like that for at least a few months now

Anyways 99% of the time using rng auto (especially something like just jping) you shouldn't be using the II animators. You want your pet to run in and melee

oh?
so during JP we do not want our RNG pet to stay away from mobs? :O

ok, that is an idea.


no Animators are not being swapped cuz its already set (Pet: RNG BLM WHM RDM) = "Animator PII" (Pet: MNK PLD)= "Animator P +1"

We will try to put our "Animator P +1" in mog house and see what happens and then try to do with "Animator PII" in mog and see what happens.

Ty for the suggestions Both of you :)

If the issue still there, I will post again @...@ (Hope its not needed tho)

Also what a good way to PUP JP (we both around 230~240 JP into our PUP.

Just missing those JP before we can End Game with it ^^; (or so I heard).

Not just jp. Honestly while I'm sure they exist I can't think of a single time you'd actually use rng pet and not have it melee

As far as animators the fact it's even a rule probably means at some point it's being swapped. I'd recommend completely killing that rule and swapping animators based on the situation you are playing. Because it's really the situation that you are in that will determine whether keep your auto at a distance is much if any of a boon. Especially when you have the +1 of 1 and the nq of the other

Personally, I'll rarely equip animator p II just to move the white mage puppet out of range should I even be using that build, automatically swapping back to main animator after it moves. Of course it works better to deploy outside of 12 yalms for further range from some aoe and helps you keep current TP if you're fighting. IMO all dps builds should be in melee range unless doing something specific with sharpshot like what Tru did in the Neak video in which it will stay at a distance anyway due to the head.

As far as this weaponskill lockout, I haven't experienced it to help with the issue.

Ah ok, ty for the help guys :)

I was using "Animator PII" so pet doesn't get hit with AOE crap but you make a valid point too, if he melee, he gets TP faster ^^

Any suggestions on which zone/mob to do?

We been doing following:

Victory Smite > Armor Piercer = light > Victory Smite = Double light

OR

Shijin Spiral > Armor Piercer > Victory Smite > Armor Piercer

and for some odd reason I noticed that from time to time our pets will skillchain among themselves..........

Armor Piercer > Armor Piercer = Gravitation > I do Stringing Pummel for Darkness.

not sure why tho ^^;

Still learning about PUP end game myself tbh, but I really enjoyed back in the day and enjoying now ^^

Generally AoE isn't too huge of an issue especially with just jp level stuff but if you use mage or rng heads they wont run in to melee unless you so you can just deploy from farther back and if somehow the mob goes for them move it back.

Assuming you are using one of the skillchain attachments the auto if it has tp and a ws that can skillchain with whatever ws/skillchain just happened they will try to do so though it tends to do it near the end of the skillchain window and of course their AI adds some delay regardless. Wont be 100% but best bet to try and stop it is try to do your ws closer to the beginning of the skillchain window.

A lot of learning pup or at least the auto side is learning how it's AI works with different heads, commands, attachments etc. Then using that knowledge to figure out how to get to do what you want... or at least close to what you want. *shakes fist still can't set ws despite SE promises*

can anyone please post a working pup gearswap, all the ones i have found are broke.

It helps to remember at least how the level 2 skill chains interact when multi stepping.
Fusion > Gravitation > Fragmentation > Distortion > Fusion cycle
Fusion < - > Fragmentation
Gravitation < - > Distortion

I try to avoid Shijin as much as possible and always have the pet close light.

3 Step double light:
Victory Smite > Armor Shatterer (Light 100%) > Victory Smite (Light 150%)

4 Step double light: (Tactical switch after Pummel or pet will open light instead of close it <_<)
Stringing Pummel > Victory Smite (Frag 50%) > Armor Shatterer (Light 150%) > Victory Smite (Light 175%)

5 Step double light:
Armor Shatterer or Shijin :/ > Stringing Pummel or Piercer (Grav 50%) > Victory Smite (Frag 75%) > Armor Shatterer (Light 175%) > Victory Smite (Light 200%)

6 Step double light:
Stringing Pummel or Arcuballista > Daze (fusion 50%) > Pummel or Armor Piercer (Grav 75%) > Victory Smite (Frag 100%) > Armor Shatterer (Light 200%) > Victory Smite (Light 225%)


You can't make darkness with Sharpshot alone as both you and the pet lack Distortion or the T1 properties to make it. Armor Piercer has Gravitation, same as Pummel, although Pummel also has liquification which when followed by Daze (impaction) will make fusion for a longer chain.

To make darkness you need one of the other 3 frames for Distortion or Scission. String shredder or howling fist > knockout followed by Pummel.

Edit: After a re-read I think you're mixing up Shatterer and Piercer or calling them both the same thing, but they have different properties Fusion and Gravitation. Still, Shatterer > Piercer makes gravitation, following that with Pummel gets you nothing. Follow Grav skillchains with Victory Smite for Fragmentation that the pet can make light off.

Awesome, we been doing following:

String Shredder > Armor Shatterer = Fusion Skillchain > Victory Smite = Light Skillchain > Victory Smite = Double Light Skillchain

With that mob HP goes from 100% ~> 47~51% (Depends on DMG of WS)
Then next one kills it.

Also seen it do this:

String Shredder > Arcuballista = Liquifaction Skillchain > Armor Shatterer = Fusion Skillchain > u]Victory Smite[/u] = Light Skillchain > Victory Smite = Double Light Skillchain

We're definitely Getting the hang of this :)

ty so much for the info guys.

This info and the info as well the guidance of "Teuphist" really made our PUP into a way better PUP. (Still a lot of room to grow too, but getting there.)

Was looking at what combinations would be best for a Hybrid set. Losing Samnuha Tights is a pretty hefty DPS loss for the Heyoka Subligar. Pet haste ideally would be best in the head slot, being that is our weakest slot. But, the Heyoka head only has 6% haste(pet/master)

It depends... Samnuha are good in capped acc situations, but (a) I tend to find them lacking in acc a lot of the time (even on my other light DD jobs where I'm not considering a pet at all), and (b) they do absolutely nothing for the puppet.

On the other hand, Heyoka give a ton of acc to both master and puppet, a gigantic chunk of pet haste (9% on NQ), and while they lack multi-attack they do give a very hefty master crit rate. Sacrificing multiattack for crit is also probably less of an issue for Kenkonken users, so perhaps take that into consideration as well. (And for KKK users, also probably have some stronger rationale for giving up some master-only DPS to use a piece that helps ensure the pet has adequate acc regardless of manevuers/attachments to land those OA2-3x pet melee strikes)

There's also the point that for some people, SR gear can be a real pain. I'm lucky enough to have perfect Samnuha, but for anyone who doesn't have that (or close to perfect augs) Heyoka are a really appealing alternative in a slot where there aren't a whole lot of great other options.

All that being said, yeah, Samnuha are my default "master only" TP piece for sure, unless I reeeeealy need the acc from something else. I don't have much problem giving them up for a hybrid set though.


From a pet perspective, head is one of the stronger puppet DPS slots if you go with Tali'ah+1 for the nice combo of high acc for both master and puppet, and pet Store TP (harder to get than pet haste anyway, so I like to take that where I can get it). I manage to cap pet haste without the head slot. I suppose Herculean Helm is a consideration here as well, but if you go that route you pretty much have to pick a hat that's either shitty for the puppet (master augs like TA+4/Acc), or shitty for the master (pet Store TP, and maybe pray for master acc on the same piece).


For me, my default hybrid set (Kenkonken) is like I posted above, using 3/5 Heyoka along with Tali'ah+1 head and Herculean Boots (Heyoka is a bit less impressive here, and I have very strong Herc boots with augs of TA+4/Acc&Atk+30something/DEX+8 or so). I can totally see the argument for Samnuha Tights though, and if you have zero acc issues on master/puppet those probably do win. If you really needed Acc, Heyoka is solid in any slot though.

A more subtle perk of the Heyoka set (and the Su3 sets in general) is the defensive value: really strong Meva and solid HP+. Greatly reduces the danger from AoE, and where defense is a concern at all it's a nice bonus. Similarly, I've found some situations where it's really quite helpful on my NIN MNK using Kendatsuba Su3 gear in such cases. I wouldn't necessarily pick the gear primarily for the defensive value (at least in the vast majority of cases), but when you're talking about stuff that's pretty close offensively I don't mind making the defensive bonuses the tiebreaker.

It's the lack of STP more than anything. For Master that is. You are rolling with one STP for yourself.

Hmmm, that's an interesting thought. Might be worth using Dedition Earring to make up some Stp, and you can probably handle the acc hit if you're using heavy Acc in most slots... That's one I'll have to look into.

Normally, you're right, I roll with a rather low STP set and I wish I could fit more in there. But, when the puppet has OA2-3x up, it's a hard call for me to say it's worth using a gear slot that gives absolutely nothing for the puppet when the alternative has some significant benefit to both master and puppet (heavy acc, a ton of pet haste, and a ton of master crit isn't bad by any means - even if it's not necessarily ideal when thinking just about the master).

Again though, definitely Samnuha when acc is satisfactory and you're thinking more about the master.

at what point can a PUP Actually start to Tank successfully in End Game Content?

Omen
Vagary
Aeonic Clears
ETC....


I've been hearing different versions of it.

100 JP for Animator P (or +1)

550 JP for Su3 armor

1,200 JP for Max Elemental Capacity Boost

(Master Only) for all of the Above.


I personally see how having 1,200 or Master be helpful but not sure if it's needed considering the right attach / armor would provide a solid setup.

Ok whoever said su3 is dumb because pup has been tanking fine before that existed and you don't need anything from that.

In theory with good gear could do some at zero jp but I'd wait for at least the fi4st elemental capacity bonus preferable the 2nd everything after that is gravy. As fae as why that's wanted the thing is you'll almost always wish you had more capacity. Yeah you can work with less but being able to equip more of certain kinds 9e higher tiers is not to be underestimated light for example is almost always trying to jam as much optic fibers arms and the flash one as possible which uses up your might capacity fazt

I've tanked end game content since 100jp.
It's just alot easier when over 1200, and I really like the Heyoka set as well.
It's especially good for reclaing hate if recovering from a hate reset.

I see, that explains how we are tanking w/o any issues and w/o Su3 armor (We at 915 JP) ^^


Yes, I like the enmity+ for pet as well (even tho I do not have any of armor yet) but would be a nice set for when pet provokes (working on a method to make it work).

Can vs should
Can tank so long as you have the right gear on I assume @0jp, Just makes it easier and more viable 1200+
Af+3 legs, Reis h2h with -5dt mix/match other gear for higher -dt and -pdt, decent regen from both maneuvers and oil+3, and max regen vorseals. What it can do, and when it can do it at a min I would assume 100+ jp is a good starting point for anything 129+
Have had master for a long time and have tanked all but Unity PW.
Though I know a few pup who are all around better than I am with gear and knowledge, I do think 100jp is where you can start to tank

My issue with it, it's not really a hybrid set. It is just a pet set. Almost all slots are buffing the Automaton

100JP and some decent Pet:DT- armor (Taeon or Rao sets, Anwig Salade). Heyoka is really more for enmity, to be honest. Nice for keeping hate with melees or recovering from an enmity reset though (or for master+pet Acc gear).

1200 is better, yeah, but FAR from necessary. I was tanking a ton of stuff before I had 1200 gift, with no issues that were caused by a lack of gifts.


I disagree with you on that one. The only slot I use that's pet only is Enmerkar earring because it's so damn good for pet DPS.

Most of my other slots help master AND pet, which makes sense if you're using a hybrid build where both master and puppet should have high TP gain and lots of WS/SC (especially true under Mythic AM3).

Heyoka gear gives a ton of acc to both master and pet, which is important on high level content. Set I posted is still a bit under 1200 before buffs (1180-something), which is about what you want for more difficult stuff (obviously less necessary on easier content). Pet Acc on gear also helps free up your thunder slots for DA/crit attachments, which is nice. And while Heyoka lacks multiattack, it does have a boatload of crit for the master. It's totally designed as hybrid TP gear, it's clearly not helping pet ONLY.

Other slots like Shulmanu Collar and a hybrid mantle (pet haste, but otherwise master focused with Acc/DEX) clearly help both. I don't really use anything that ONLY helps the pet, except for Enmerkar Earring which is just really damn good. I do list some accessories that are master only though: Moonbow, Niq Ring, Brutal.

Still, Samnuha are definitely a viable option. I definitely use them when I just care about my own TP gain (building 3k TP for Mythic AM, fighting without a DD pet by my side, etc.) They give absolutely nothing to your pet though, so it's really not a hybrid piece. If your puppet is already haste capped and fine on acc without legs slot, go for it and buff the master more with that slot. It's really hard to say there is one clearly best/only way when you're talking about as many variables as you have with considering master and puppet, attachment/maneuver flexibility, WS/SC damage from both master and puppet, etc.

Think it's more along the lines of, Heyoka isn't overwhelmingly great for the Automaton. Since accuracy on high level targets for the Automaton is rarely an issue. As for the Crit hit rate, it does very surprisingly little in terms of master DPS.

Mostly just holding out some hope for Relic(maybe Sept?) for proper hybrid builds. Since, I was tinkering in the DPS SS trying to find what's the best DPS set while capping pet haste. All were huge trade-offs.

Dropping of Samnuha or Herc feet were huge drops for me. My Herc feet have : on them.