Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0

haha that's true but it does mean a pup has to actually do the testing since no one else will...

Is it worth it to make an Automaton: Cure Potency set for whm frame? Can someone post the applicable gearset? The only gear I can think of that has any Pet: Cure potency stat is Naga set from escha zitah.

I'm not really a fan of running around with whm auto but it's not useless for that purpose. Naga gives a bunch of fast cast and auto mp and while the cure potency isn't super amazing vivii valves give so much but would let you cap with only 1 light maneuver but so does AF+3 legs by itself.

I was looking at the af+3 legs. So OF2+Vivi Valve 1/2 + light Maneuver. I'm bad with math. That's an easier way to cap cure potency than using full Naga?

Anyone have a list of item with Pet: Enmity ?

For now heyoka set + domesticator earring but i don't want to look all the item ^^ so if someone have a list ^^

That's 51% so yes less gear required

Oh groovy! Thanks. How are you able to calculate these things, I'd like to be able to make my own combinations and not have to guess the stat values.

RE pet/automaton enmity gear: Only other piece I know is

Rimeice Earring
Domesticator's
Heyoka set (looks BIS)
(alternate feet: Durgai Leggings)

Couldn't find any Rings/Back or Neck pieces that PUP can use to get additional enmity.

Durgai Leggings and Rimeice Earring are the only others I can think of

Just add them. Values for armor are listed on them and wiki's have values for the attachments

Where the confusion comes up is when you start throwing Optic Fibers into the mix. I don't know how that factors into the calculation. The wiki page gives a base value for just having the attachment, but then there's a bonus to using the associated maneuver. That's the issue I have.

Generally speaking even though a lot of things haven't really been tested (or if there is it's not linked or if it is it's more just stating numbers) it's safe to assume OFs work. But honestly I wasn't even considering optic fibers when doing the math that was just base 1 light maneuver values listed. With OF1/2 assuming they work you'd cap without any gear with 1 light maneuver

So a few months ago I put together a lua for my wifes PUP that sort of manual swaps at the click of a hot key because I couldn't get things like pet.engaged ect. to work in GS. I am going back on this thread and seems like people have found a way for GS to detect pup actions before they happen? Is that true, is an enmity set or a WS skill set possible now without manual entries?

Also are there any updated sets posted? I went a few pages back and only found a few hybrid sets, wondering what people are wearing for pup DPS and pup tank now-adays.

Also,is pup mage viable? I see the +3 Relic boots give it a nice boost.

Edit: Lastly, what attachment sets are people using for pure DPS and/or dps/tanking(Just needs to keep hate, mob isn't too threatening damage wise)

Yup those are the only ones. Max pet enmity set will be 5/5 Heyoka (or +1) and Domesticator/Rimeice earrings. Since Heyoka feet have more enmity and a boatload of other stats, those should be the choice over Durgai (which did serve me pretty well in the old days when the enmity+15 from earrings+durgai was all we had besides Strobes/Flashbulb).

Worth noting that this is actually a really useful set if you do a lot of tanking, especially on anything with hate reset moves. It's a really noticeable difference in how well you can get hate back on the puppet, or hold it off melees much better than not using enm+ gear. I personally keep my enmity set in a macro, and even when I'm not focusing all out on enmity+, I'll usually manually swap into it when I see flashbulb/strobe timer is almost ready (unless I'm just not concerned about hate or really not wanting to swap out of pet DT gear for some reason).

One specific place I make very good use of a max pet enmity set is in Omen on Kyou, where we go with 2 tanks and just let the puppet eat Unfaltering Bravado and die. I re-activate, pop on my enmity+ set, and get hate back off the backup tank to do it all over again (it's kind of sad in a way to see the puppet just dying again and again... lol).

Also great Meva gear for the master, which is nice when you have to do something like wade into magical AoE range for a repair, re-positioning the puppet, etc.

To top that all off, they're pretty solid hybrid master/puppet TP pieces, with lots of accuracy for master and puppet, pet haste to fit into many builds and maintain capped gear haste (especially helpful for using Kenkonken and/or Moonbow Belt/+1, where you don't have the luxury of large chunks of pet haste from Ohtas/Klouskap), and decent other DD stats with all that crit.

I tend to use 3/5 NQ Heyoka in my hybrid set (master+puppet both TPing) to maintain 26% pet haste while using KKK/Moonbow+1. It's a very attack-starved set to be sure, but the name of the game there is really TP generation and keeping the SCs flowing like crazy, especially with OA2-3x Mythic AM up on master+puppet (which also helps make it not quite as big of a loss to give up some multiattack from Herc hands/feet or Samnuha Tights).
ItemSet 350425
(Cape is DEX+20, Acc+30/Atk+20, 10% pet haste)

Thats a beautiful hybrid set capu.

Atm i don't have the relic feet, but i have made a test on apex crab, no geo and got a 84K MB with 3 ice mnv.

On pet attch., focus on MB one, MAB+++, ice converter of course and the 2 water attch. who boost MAB.

for master gear i have this atm (herc leg pet INT 14 MAB 29 and ambus pet macc 30 mdmg 20) and H&H for the 20 pet ele skill

ItemSet 354819

2 things i have to test, tisphita + incursion cape because those item focus on MAB

Hi.

I was thinking to try frog ambuscade using pup.

Can anyone share sets/attachments to aim to beat D or VD, or give some tips as im really new to pup.

Thanks in advance.

dt/dd set if you have things setup to swap to pet ws gear might want to consider disabling it. If you do it manually use your own judgment on your pet surviving at a given moment.

VE/VE. OFs, ARk 4, MJ4, analyzer, steam jacket, then whatever DD ones you want/need. I'd recommend TS, attuner, coiler II maybe stabilizer if you need the acc. Light, fire, water all day everyday. repair/mulsim use will vary depending on your sets

Sorry, forgot to check the thread for a couple of days. clearlyamule pretty much laid out the setup I was using for D Ambu, along with Ohtas, Anwig, 4/5 Taeon (Acc/DA/DT), Shulmanu, Incarnation, JSE cape, Thurandaut/Varar, Domesticator's/Enmerkar Earring.

Note that after OD runs out, the last 25% are kinda annoying and slow to solo. I wouldn't really recommend trying to spam D solo if you can do Normal under 5 minutes.

Last time I just really didn't get great damage on on D even using Overdrive. I have no trouble holding him and surviving. but doing enough damage to take him down in time solo is a challenge.

I'm not using any Taeon for -dt set. so lacking DA/Acc there.
but I should have plenty of acc anyway. using tali'ah legs +2 and heyoka body. I have all the rest of the gear.. well wasn't using shulmanu, was using shepherds.

if you have DA on all those taeon dt pieces, that will make a big difference in skillchain frequency.


LOL i feel a fool for forgetting analyzer though.

but when using special moves, Its more time/cost effective doing D using an Abdhaljs seal than Normal. its well worth the time difference. because you need to take the time to reset overdrive and you use 1/2 as many seals to get same hallmarks.

Taeon's mostly nice because it allows you to dt up while still having meaningful stats for tp and ws. On top of just pulling that nice double duty it allows you more wiggle room on siding dt/acc out in slots.

Plus those double DA proc overdrive bonecrushers are pretty nice. Speaking of pumping up bone crusher. If you aren't gaining tp that fast flameholder might be viable way of increasing dmg.

Once again, focusing on the damage of a single 3x Ice Maker nuke is extremely misleading. Yeah, you can get good damage on a target like a crab where the first nuke will be a good element. Over time though, you'll probably do less than half the frequency of nukes as any mage who is awake, have several "bad element" casts where the puppet does something dumb for 2nd cast (water on a crab? sure!), have to constantly deactivate to refill MP and avoid Aspir-hell, etc. It's just not viable for a fast paced CP party due to MB frequency, and you will not get anything near those kinds of numbers on any mob of serious value (e.g., Omen/Ambu/difficult Geas Fete NMs).

That being said, yeah, that's a nice nuking gear set if you ever manage to find a target where slower paced strong nukes are ideal. Would also need to ensure it's a mob where it isn't critical to choose the correct element nuke, at the risk of the puppet AI screwing up the fight.

If you DID want to try to nuke on targets more difficult than level 130ish Apex mobs, there's also a good chance that stacking more Macc to avoid resists would have more value than MAB. Tali'ah gear is good across the board for this (and in a more Macc-oriented set, would prob beat Rawhide Mask, Naga Gloves, Herc legs).

Additional nuke gear comments:

Weapons:
1) It's very possible (perhaps even likely?) that fully upgraded Ohtas have a non-displayed pet Macc+70. We already know that Pet Acc+70 is listed, but they also give an unlisted Pet Ranged Acc+70. Would not surprise me much if they have Acc/Racc/Macc, as those are so commonly paired together on PUP gear. Testing would be annoying enough that I don't care to do it myself, but if someone could manage to get regular resists without using pet buffs from weapon slot, then use Ohtas and do enough nukes to demonstrate a significantly reduced resist rate, that would strongly support unlisted MAcc+70 being a thing. In addition, Ohtas have the pet: haste+10% which helps on individual spell recast timers.

2) If Ohtas don't have Macc... Ohrmazd (pet Macc or MAB up to 25 from snow slot) or Condemners (highly variable) may be the best weapon option. If you're not interested in playing with random augments, R15 Nibiru path D or Tinhaspa are your main choices.

Animator:
Probably obvious to everyone, but Animator P II (or +1) is your top choice for nukes. Divinator II below that.

Body:
If, like 99%+ of PUPs, you lack Udug Jacket (by far the BiS body for nuking), Tali'ah Manteel+2 is a good and considerably more attainable alternative. Tali'ah has almost the same Macc (46 versus Udug's 45), but obviously loses out on the large chunk of MAB. Also something you probably want anyway as a great master TP body and pet melee/ranged Acc piece.

Rings:
Tali'ah Ring (Pet: Macc+6) should now also be included in a PUP nuking set; only significant benefit from ring slots. Only other things that would have minor benefit are pet haste (Thurandaut/+1) for individual spell recast, or master INT to give some minor benefit to ice maneuver burden accumulation/overload risk. Both of those are such minimal benefits that I'd just err on the side of tossing on a D.Ring or something else with master defensive value.

Back:
I would assume the combo of pet level+1 and Macc/Mdmg on Ambuscade mantle will usually outweigh Argochampsa's Pet: MAB+12, but perhaps not if Macc is a total non-issue. I muled my Argo Mantle long ago though, and don't particularly care to bother with it for inventory-1.

Legs:
I would expect Pitre+2/+3 legs to be the strongest nuke legs once they are unveiled, and they should be coming pretty soon (December update?), so maybe don't spend a ton of time on augmenting a pair of pet nuking Herculean Trousers if you don't already have them. I'd imagine for most people, Tali'ah +1/+2 will do the job just fine in the meantime (and maybe won't be a big enough difference between those and Pitre+2 to justify the currently high cost to upgrade relic gear).

Feet:
Like Psylo, I'm currently using AF+3 feet (and even the +2s are better than Tali'ah). Pitre+3 would be ideal in probably any situation, and even Pitre+2 are better than any other alternative except for situations where you're really trying to max out Macc (in which case AF+3 might still be best). However, Relic +2/+3 feet are also obviously still pretty pricey, especially for such a niche piece and even more so when when we have a very good option already in AF that people might already have (and at least AF have an additional - and far more common - use in Repair macros).

I got too frustrated w/ the randomness trying to upgrade taeon pieces into usefulness.
I wasn't around when alluvion skirmish was a big thing. barely started up again right before Reisenjima was added.

Then again, pup supertanking yorcia skirmish might make farming this a bit feasible....

This is actually highly unlikely. SE has come out and said for the stat pet:acc it means racc too just they haven't been consistent in putting it down. Same is true for att/ratt. This is why pretty much all rng augments actually have a acc/racc slot and a macc slot.

A simple qualitative test is actually relatively easy and even quantitative from what I've read isn't too terrible. Been meaning to delve into it more thoroughly for posting but life has been crazy but the cliff notes from what I remember is some jp bloggers using mage frames to test macc/meva in general due to how the auto particularly when using scanner actually scans for resist rate effectively and wont cast if it's too high. So if you can set up/find a target that is under that threshold and have some other gear should be easy to find something as big as 70.

Speaking really huge bonuses never forget stewpots. Literally the single biggest boost you can get. A tad expensive but it's 3 hours and a group food and also happens to be the best player macc food and one of the best pet acc/racc foods as well so other people will probably enjoy the effects and split costs

Honestly Alluvion skirmish system was the best rng augment system they've made ever in the game. It's still random and that sucks but it's about 3-4 times better than in terms of the system than reisen and infinitely better than all the older ones. That said the content is waaaaaaaaaay past it's prime so supplies are terrible and even at it's prime dusk was always terrible.

I largely keep it because of those benefits and because I got the bulk of the augment back when stuff was plentiful... and it serves double duty for bst and well meh at making new side grade dt (though things that have been released with more I've done). I'm also in the odd position of doing a lot of stuff where autos are my only source of dmg while they also are the tanks. It's far from necessary for pups who already have other dt sets it's just has some useful niche benefits

Good notes, thanks.

That makes total sense on the testing thanks to the built in scanner, perhaps it won't be as hard as I thought! Can just go get some reasonably high level mob and start with 0 Macc gear, increasing it until the puppet casts appropriate spells to indicate the baseline "acceptable Macc". Then drop below that threshold, ensure you aren't getting casts, and try adding Ohtas to see if that changes things. If I get some time soon I may poke around with this, but if someone gets to it first please post your findings!

Good tip on the stewpot too.

I will say that, especially for people with multiple mules, when there are bonus events like Red Mog Pells, it's a great opportunity to get stacks of +1 stones. That also increases available supply from people trying to convert to money. Ambuscade skirmish stones sometimes come up too, as well as login points.

Just this past week I tossed random stones from Pells at a Taeon body for some miscellaneous stuff for my RUN - FC (leaf), Phalanx (dusk), and Meva (snow). Got a stack of +1s of each type of stones and got max augment on all three (took like 4 leaf, 5 dusk, 8 snow).

Alluvion armor results aren't THAT bad to get what you want. Since you can isolate a slot and lock in once you get a good augment, it's a lot less frustrating than the Reisenjima/Oseem pieces that reroll ALL augments stats. For Taeon, I found it wasn't all that difficult to get DA+5 or DT-4% augs with +1 stones. Snow is kinda the harder one to get max augments, but even that is doable to get a decent result. I also never had that bad of a time doing TA+2% augs when I needed those for light DD jobs back when Taeon was king.

I still rock a 4/5 Taeon set as my default PUP tanking gear, with capped DT/Regen and Meva+22~25. Didn't want Pet: DA or Acc on my tanking set since I used a lot of PUP tank with SCH/BLM backline doing SCs, so I really didn't want to give the puppet any more TP than necessary and have it screw up SCs. I also make use of Heyoka gear (enmity), and I have Rao DT pieces around but rarely end up using them - still get plenty of use of my Taeon stuff on current endgame content.

I actually had a set of Taeon DA+5, Acc/Racc+20~25, Haste+5% back when that was ideal pet DD gear. Think I still have a couple of those pieces in a locker, but I prob re-augmented a couple at some point. Perhaps I'll re-aug my existing pieces with some DT- for a hybrid tanking/pet DD set for scenarios like this month's ambuscade...

Worth noting that the legs slot is probably one of the lower priorities for hybrid pet gear, since Tali'ah legs have good DT along with lots of Acc. I'd focus first on hands/feet first for hybrid stuff, as I often like to keep relic body when the puppet is doing damage, and either Anwig or Tali'ah head depending on preference for pure DT- or offense/STP.


EDIT: Oh, and this reminded me I didn't get a chance to comment on this from the other day... I also have +15 STR/DEX/VIT on my Ohrmazd, and I've never seen anyone with higher. I wonder if the initially reported stats were just wrong and 15 is really the cap. Would be similar to leaf slot, which people initially said was possible to go up to DT-5%. I think later everyone agreed that DT-4% is the real cap. I threw a TON of leaforbs at my H2H and never beat DT-4% there. I didn't try as many Dusk, was pretty satisfied with +15 there.

For dusk slot, it's also curious that the other player attributes (STR, CHR) have an INDIVIDUAL reported cap of +17, but when they show up paired it's STR and CHR +15 cap (similar to most other augments where the paired value has a lower max than the single stat). I wonder if 17 was just something people assumed as a max for the Duskslot when they saw a single attribute +17...

Looking now at the chart, I also see the -slit -tip -dim stones also show paired attribute stats of +15, and single attribute of +17. Really makes me think that the true Duskorb max is Pet: STR/VIT/DEX+15, unless someone can attest to having higher or provide any proof.

Yeah I think the 17 might have been assumed based on another weapon? All I know is I've hit 15 multiple times never higher.

dt one is fairly easily explained to the fact people were mixing up dt and pdt a lot early on.

Actually that reminds me if you are going to get into alluvion skirmish for pure pet peices I definitely recommend playing around with Ohrmazd. Snow slot offers decent acc/macc/meva/mab, leave offers 2nd highest dt, crit rate, DA, or even combined da/crit and some other stuff, dusk gives 15 to 3 stats that will improve pretty much every ws or up to 200 tp bonus. Got like 2-4 per character that are basically my go to's unless I need a ton more acc or going all out on dt. Or for some reason I'm in a situation where I want to not swap weapons and something else has a bonus I want so basically meleeing or wanting to hold tp to force that auto to hold tp until skillchain. At least until I finish KKK

I'm gonna test it on our next Kei and will post result.

I will prepare a more macc set to check it too on Kei.

A little question about lua and motenten.
When i use atl+F10 all the gear swap in kitting mode, ok for that.

If i made a kitting.tank and a kitting.dd where i can put the condition like :

did i need to create a function job_state_change(stateField, newValue, oldValue) or something else ?

The reason Reisenjima Augments are better than Alluvion skirmish augments are because of where the cost lies.

Reisenjima the cost is in getting the initial gear piece. Augments may be less controlled than alluvion, but they are CHEAP.

Alluvion the augments are very expensive. Just because you got lucky with some augments, doesn't mean they are not that bad. They ARE that bad.

I've sunk several millions of gil into augments and had absolutely nothing to show for it with Alluvion. The time sink and cost are simply not worth it the vast majority of the time.

Even if Reisenjima are not always great, MAGA makes it much more bearable.

I have been thinking about getting augments for my Ormazd. Definitely want those pet stats for ws's. I usually wait for compaigns for cheap upgrade pieces and hope I get lucky. depends if I can get a cheap way to get upgrades.