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Random Politics & Religion #00
Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2015-10-31 00:29:49
LOL. I've seen lame personal attacks in here, but that one was quite a stretch. No wonder Jassik liked it.
You didn't find what I asked for to begin with, and if there isn't an easy example to be found then it supports my point anyway. You'll have to excuse me for not doing a full-scale statistical analysis in the time from when the topic was brought up until now, though. I get paid to do that kind of stuff, so if you want to discuss a fee system I would be glad to research random P&R topics more in depth to suit your needs.
Pointing out your bias where you cling to your initial assumption that first time offenders could never go to jail for decades by immediately assuming this instance is an outlier was not a personal attack. It was stated sarcastically, but last time I looked that was still allowed.
No, I didn't meet your requirements. I stated in the initial post what requirments it didn't meet. Not sure why you, Nik, and KN somehow think I missed the part where he will not be staying in jail for decades, when I said that.
Like I stated in my first post I was curious about those parameters you created.
In one brief search I found someone who last year was facing life in prison for a first time nonviolent offense.
(This is the part I tried to emphasize, I'll bold or underline next time) Because the crime carries the ability to incarcerate someone for up to 99 years and the law allows all portions of the substance (in this case brownie) to be measured as the drug (thc). Those are two interesting facts, in my opinion.
Instead of making you curious about your initial assumption it made you defensive with the immediate dissmisal of this case being an outlier.
My assumption is that spending decades in prison for a first time pot or nonviolent offense is probably not within the normal distribution mainly because we plea out the majority of cases in the US. Defendants have the book thrown at them in terms of potential charges, which leads to potential sentencing of decades, in order to negociate from a position of strength.
So, this case was probably well within the normal distribution**, I assume. Whether you or I find that acceptable or not is a matter of opinion, and one we probably won't agree on ...so eh.
**in terms of potential sentencing to actuao time served
Bahamut.Ravael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-31 02:12:16
It's worth noting that while I do use words such as "outlier" in the purely statistical sense, I also tend to use such terms colloquially. If I call someone average looking, it's safe to assume that I didn't quantify their looks on a numerical scale and literally equate them with a mu value, but if you want to pretend that it makes me a bad statistician then I guess you're entitled to whatever cheap shots make you feel better.
I also doubt such sentencing follows a normal distribution in the first place, but that's beside the point.
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Phoenix.Xantavia
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 449
By Phoenix.Xantavia 2015-10-31 02:30:24
I think he can hold out until the next GOP debate on Nov 10, which should be more focused on policy for a few reasons, namely its on Fox. But whats the point? He sucks at debating, his whole team knows this along with the rest of the country. There is no path he can take to increase his standing, just get out. I thought they weren't going to be on Fox again after Megan Kelly was a big ol' meanie to some of the candidates? Or was it just Trump who said he wouldn't show up again?
Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2015-10-31 03:20:52
Getting back to what Sparth was saying
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Get caught with pot as a teenager and get decades in prison. More if you're a certain skin tone.
I think he could be referring to the rockefeller laws from the 70's in New York, and similiar laws in Michigan.
Quote: Under the Rockefeller drug laws, the penalty for selling two ounces (57 g) or more of heroin, morphine, "raw or prepared opium," cocaine, or cannabis or possessing four ounces (113 g) or more of the same substances, was a minimum of 15 years to life in prison, and a maximum of 25 years to life in prison. The original legislation also mandated the same penalty for committing a violent crime while under the influence of the same drugs, but this provision was subsequently omitted from the bill and was not part of the legislation Rockefeller ultimately signed. The section of the laws applying to marijuana was repealed in 1979, under the Democratic Governor Hugh Carey.
The adoption of the Rockefeller drug laws gave New York State the distinction of having the toughest laws of its kind in the entire United States — an approach soon imitated by the state of Michigan, which, in 1978, enacted a "650-Lifer Law," which called for life imprisonment, without the possibility of parole for the sale, manufacture, or possession of at least 650 grams (1.43 lb) of cocaine or any Schedule I or Schedule II opiate.
It is more complicated than he stated. Brief search found people who if living in the same house or driving in the same car as the owner of the drugs also receiving the mandatory sentences.
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By Jassik 2015-10-31 09:43:53
The prevalence of and use of purposefully vague trafficking laws is scary. According to the former Idaho state prosecutors', having any manner of disposable packaging constitutes an intent to distribute regardless of the quantity, though I'm not sure if they ever successfully applied the law that way. It's just an example of how the public image of minor drug crimes shapes how laws are applied even when it makes no sense.
Another big part of the push for aggressive prosecutions and plea deals is that a lot of prosecutors and judges are elected. They can't let things like fairly applying the law get in the way of conviction rates when their job is on the line.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-10-31 11:22:55
Getting back to what Sparth was saying
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Get caught with pot as a teenager and get decades in prison. More if you're a certain skin tone.
I think he could be referring to the rockefeller laws from the 70's in New York, and similiar laws in Michigan.
Quote: Under the Rockefeller drug laws, the penalty for selling two ounces (57 g) or more of heroin, morphine, "raw or prepared opium," cocaine, or cannabis or possessing four ounces (113 g) or more of the same substances, was a minimum of 15 years to life in prison, and a maximum of 25 years to life in prison. The original legislation also mandated the same penalty for committing a violent crime while under the influence of the same drugs, but this provision was subsequently omitted from the bill and was not part of the legislation Rockefeller ultimately signed. The section of the laws applying to marijuana was repealed in 1979, under the Democratic Governor Hugh Carey.
The adoption of the Rockefeller drug laws gave New York State the distinction of having the toughest laws of its kind in the entire United States — an approach soon imitated by the state of Michigan, which, in 1978, enacted a "650-Lifer Law," which called for life imprisonment, without the possibility of parole for the sale, manufacture, or possession of at least 650 grams (1.43 lb) of cocaine or any Schedule I or Schedule II opiate.
It is more complicated than he stated. Brief search found people who if living in the same house or driving in the same car as the owner of the drugs also receiving the mandatory sentences.
I was being intentionally hyperbolic but indeed yes, I was referring to the Rockefeller drug laws and the subsequent inmates who were given exorbitant prison stints.
The point of bringing this is up was to remind everyone that marijuana being the 'ok' drug to mention, use casually and demand become legal has not always been this way and infact many of the people herded into prisons not that long ago have had their lives irreparably ruined by the war on drugs.
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-10-31 17:08:21
Four dead in Colorado shooting
Gun violence on Halloween? Come on man...I guess some people just don't like slashers.
By Jetackuu 2015-10-31 21:04:53
Dude, even I find that in poor taste. Somewhat.
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-01 10:37:46
Hope they're not black, that means they'll get 10x the punishment cause America is so racist and all.
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11404
By Garuda.Chanti 2015-11-01 10:55:43
Hope they're not black, that means they'll get 10x the punishment cause America is so racist and all. In even poorer taste.
You are better than that Nasui, even with a sarcasm tag.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-11-01 15:49:03
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By Yatenkou 2015-11-01 17:18:20
At leaast he's not like Swaggernaut was that one night in RT.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-11-01 17:44:57
P&R Thread dying of boredom.
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 25993
By Anna Ruthven 2015-11-01 19:36:52
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By Jassik 2015-11-01 19:49:24
Gay Hitler, you say?
By Yatenkou 2015-11-01 21:06:31
He only had one nut.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-11-02 06:26:51
An underachieving Democrat.
Bahamut.Omael
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 400
By Bahamut.Omael 2015-11-02 06:57:12
It's been done.
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-11-02 09:39:13
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »The point of bringing this is up was to remind everyone that marijuana being the 'ok' drug to mention, use casually and demand become legal has not always been this way and infact many of the people herded into prisons not that long ago have had their lives irreparably ruined by the war on drugs.
you gotta stop living in the past man!
join us in the now!
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Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-02 16:24:20
Libs rejoice!
Someone has finally taken the courage to stand up and declare "criminal" the hate speech that it is.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-11-02 16:25:36
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Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11404
By Garuda.Chanti 2015-11-02 19:14:52
The Keystone pipeline is officially dead.
TransCanada Requests Suspension of U.S. Permit for Keystone XL Pipeline
Move comes in face of expected rejection by Obama administration; could put off request until after 2016
WSJ
(Well at least until oil goes over $120 / barrel.)
Quote: The company behind the Keystone XL pipeline on Monday asked the U.S. government to suspend its permit application, throwing the politically fraught project into an indefinite state of limbo, beyond the 2016 U.S. elections.
Calgary, Alberta-based TransCanada Corp. sent a letter to the State Department, which reviews cross-border pipelines, to suspend its application while the company goes through a state review process in Nebraska it had previously resisted. The move comes in the face of an expected rejection by the Obama administration and low oil prices that are sapping business interests in Canada’s oil reserves.
“In order to allow time for certainty regarding the Nebraska route, TransCanada requests that the State Department pause in its review of the Presidential Permit application for Keystone XL,” the company said in the suspension request reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. “This will allow a decision on the Permit to be made later based on certainty with respect to the route of the pipeline.”
The announcement marks a turning point for the company’s effort to get the pipeline approved. Its executives have repeatedly said over the years they wouldn’t back down from seeking a permit in the face of political or economic uncertainty. Low oil prices have called into question to what extent oil companies would need the pipeline and President Barack Obama has repeatedly said he doubted the pipeline would benefit the U.S.
TransCanada’s move comes as the State Department was in the final stages of review, with a decision to reject the permit expected as soon this week, according to people familiar with the matter.
A State Department spokesman didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. It must now decide whether to accept the company’s request or proceed with a final decision.
TransCanada in September signaled it was shifting its strategy when it dropped state legal challenges and efforts to seize land in Nebraska for the pipeline. Company officials hoped those moves would extend the review process in Washington while details on the Nebraska portion of the route were worked out.
The shift reflects headwinds the project continued to face from the Obama administration.
In public remarks made after the November midterm election, Mr. Obama said he had doubts about the project. He has said it would create few jobs, not lower gasoline prices and could affect climate change, an important second-term priority for his administration. The U.S. review process, which has lasted more than seven years, has escalated into a broader debate on the economy, energy production and climate change.
As proposed, the Keystone XL pipeline would move as many as 830,000 barrels of oil a day, mostly from Canada’s oil sands to Steele City, Neb., where it would connect with existing pipelines to Gulf Coast refineries. Up to 100,000 barrels of that oil would come from North Dakota’s booming oil fields. If completed, the pipeline system would span 1,700 miles and cross six U.S. states.
TransCanada first applied for a permit with the State Department, which reviews cross-border pipeline projects, in September 2008. The company has faced many setbacks both in Washington and in Nebraska, where opposition from landowners and environmentalists delayed the permitting process.
TransCanada has spent at least $2.5 billion on the project, whose total cost if built was estimated to be at least $10 billion due to delays and increased permitting costs.
“The route in Nebraska has been uncertain for years, the only difference now is TransCanada knows they are about to have their permit rejected so they are scrambling,” said Jane Kleeb, executive director of Bold Nebraska, the activist organization fighting the project in Nebraska and around the country. “It is time to reject and give farmers, ranchers and Tribal Nations peace of mind their land and water is protected.”
The company has insisted it won’t abandon the pipeline route as long as shippers continue to back it. The company’s chief executive, Russ Girling, has said Canadian oil producers want a more direct way to access the U.S. Gulf Coast.
No major oil-sands player has publicly backed away from a commitment to Keystone XL, but the urgency of market access as an issue has waned in line with the drop in crude oil prices. The cancellation or suspension of several large oil-sands projects, including one abandoned by Royal Dutch Shell PLC last week, may further ease concern about limited pipeline capacity.
Keystone XL also has faced unexpected resistance in Alberta, home to Canada’s oil sands, with the election in May of a left-leaning government that has adopted a lukewarm approach to the project. Premier Rachel Notley has questioned the need for greater access to the U.S. market, which buys nearly all the oil that Canada exports. Ms. Notley instead has signaled her support for alternative routes such as a proposed pipeline that would link to Eastern Canadian refineries.
TransCanada also lost a staunch ally when Canada’s longtime ruling party lost its mandate in federal elections earlier this month, prompting the ouster of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who once called Keystone XL a “no-brainer.” His successor, Prime Minister-elect Justin Trudeau has signaled support for Keystone XL but isn’t expected to make it a signal issue in U.S.-Canadian relations.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-11-02 19:22:03
Not once was there an argument made for how this Canadian pipeline would benefit the US.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-11-02 20:41:36
angry lil' fella arentcha?
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-11-02 20:47:48
Nah, dismissing nausi is easy.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-11-02 20:50:17
Libs rejoice!
Someone has finally taken the courage to stand up and declare "criminal" the hate speech that it is.
Well it's already clear the Dems want to make the 2016 election about felons. I guess it's some strange political calculation attempting to woo the astroturf black lives matter movement. A rich white woman is taking her rightful place at the head of the Democrat party and plantation politics goes bye bye. They need another in. Just like Democrats think all Latinos are illegal aliens, they think black Anericans are felons.
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サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-11-02 20:50:58
Nah, dismissing nausi is easy.
Ignorantly dismissing anyone is easy.
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-02 20:51:30
Nah, dismissing nausi is easy.
Vic, watching you dive after red meat is hilarious on my end.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-11-02 20:52:05
Its never ignorance to dismiss nausi, or in this case, your fictional ramblings.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-11-02 20:53:05
Nah, dismissing nausi is easy.
Vic, watching you dive after red meat is hilarious on my end.
Right back to...nobody cares. Like I said, easy.
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