Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-11-25 02:55:15  
A response to Nausi's tabloid article:
No, one in five British Muslims doesn't support Isis.

Edited:
Quote:
The newspaper’s headline claims that one in five British Muslims have some sympathy for Jihadis. This assertion is based on a polling question whether respondents have “sympathy with young Muslims who leave to UK to join fighters in Syria”.

Respondents were allowed to say whether they had “a lot” “some” or “no” sympathy with such people travelling to Syria.

The problem with the Sun’s interpretation of this poll is that people travelling to Syria are not necessarily going to fight on the side of jihadis.

The open wording of the question means that any number could have this group of people going to fight Isis in mind.

There are two things about the way the poll is structured that are likely to inflate the percentage rate saying they have sympathy.

The first and most important is the wording of the question. “Sympathy” is a very broad term and does not necessarily imply full-blooded support. People who say they have sympathy with something might be saying they understand why someone has come to do something, even if they think it is wrong. They may even simply be saying that feel bad for a person in that situation.

Secondly, the fact that respondents were allowed to say they had “a lot” or “some” sympathy rather than a forced choice between “some” or “none” is significant. Methodologically, the moderate choice in a poll is disproportionately likely to be picked; this inflates the number of people with sympathy.

There are also questions about whether it is possible to accurately poll British Muslims, who make up about five per cent of the UK population, with a telephone poll with a 1,000 person sample size.

The biggest problem with the poll is that if you ask non-Muslims the same questions, they actually provide very similar responses.

The same poll question, asked for Sky News in March to all GB residents – found that 14 per cent of the general population had some “sympathy” for young Muslims leaving to fight in Syria.

What are the consequences of this?

Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.

Coverage like The Sun’s front page gives the impression that at least a part of the Muslim community support atrocities.

People carrying out such hate crimes presumably think, for some reason, ordinary Muslims have some sympathy with the Paris attacks.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 08:24:54  
Apropos to nothing, I found this while looking for a different image and it felt extremely relevant to all of us here.

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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 08:26:30  
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.


There's a lot of really, really terrible things that can be inferred from this information and it's really disheartening to me to think how many are probably true.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 08:37:05  
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.


There's a lot of really, really terrible things that can be inferred from this information and it's really disheartening to me to think how many are probably true.
Don't forget what happened after 9/11.

Hate crimes skyrocketed against Muslims almost immediately in the US.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 08:42:38  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.


There's a lot of really, really terrible things that can be inferred from this information and it's really disheartening to me to think how many are probably true.
Don't forget what happened after 9/11.

Hate crimes skyrocketed against Muslims almost immediately in the US.

Yeah, I know. Disturbing then, disturbing now.

Ignorant people picking on easy targets that have next to nothing to do with, or in common with, the aggressors.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 08:48:44  
What I don't like is the half-assed way humans are doing this.

Let's either kill everyone or have world peace. Stop half-assing this ***where we only kill specific groups of people, damn it!
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-25 09:54:38  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.


There's a lot of really, really terrible things that can be inferred from this information and it's really disheartening to me to think how many are probably true.
Don't forget what happened after 9/11.

Hate crimes skyrocketed against Muslims almost immediately in the US.
Skyrocketed?

Source?
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-25 09:59:52  
Washington D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier who approves almost zero conceal carry permits says armed citizens should take action in the next possible attack.

Quote:
"Your options are run, hide, or fight," says Lanier. "If you're in a position to try and take the gunman down, to take the gunman out, it's the best option for saving lives before police can get there," she tells Cooper.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 10:02:51  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.


There's a lot of really, really terrible things that can be inferred from this information and it's really disheartening to me to think how many are probably true.
Don't forget what happened after 9/11.

Hate crimes skyrocketed against Muslims almost immediately in the US.
Skyrocketed?

Source?

Hate Crimes Against Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-11-25 10:09:47  
ISIS is claiming they were responsible for the bombing in Tunisia
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 10:10:43  
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.


There's a lot of really, really terrible things that can be inferred from this information and it's really disheartening to me to think how many are probably true.
Don't forget what happened after 9/11.

Hate crimes skyrocketed against Muslims almost immediately in the US.
Skyrocketed?

Source?

Hate Crimes Against Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs
Heck, I thought that was common knowledge.

If a Christian sect decided to bomb several buildings in the name of their religion, people are going to attack that sect just because radicals of that sect were terrorists. People are *** up that way.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 10:12:26  
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
ISIS is claiming they were responsible for the bombing in Tunisia
ISIS claims that they were responsible for the diarrhea you get from eating Taco Bell. Doesn't mean it's true.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 10:19:59  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
ISIS claims that they were responsible for the diarrhea you get from eating Taco Bell. Doesn't mean it's true.

I would like to go on the record as stating that Taco Bell is too frequently maligned, its character attacked relentlessly with both libel and slander regarding the adverse effects its food supposedly causes in the human digestive tract.

I have eaten more Taco Bell than is societally acceptable to admit. I have never once been plagued by gastrointestinal distress secondary to my consumption of their inauthentic -- yet never-the-less delicious -- Texmex cuisine.
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-11-25 10:41:15  
Never said it was true, just posting what I saw
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 10:52:17  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
ISIS claims that they were responsible for the diarrhea you get from eating Taco Bell. Doesn't mean it's true.

I would like to go on the record as stating that Taco Bell is too frequently maligned, its character attacked relentlessly with both libel and slander regarding the adverse effects its food supposedly causes in the human digestive tract.

I have eaten more Taco Bell than is societally acceptable to admit. I have never once been plagued by gastrointestinal distress secondary to my consumption of their inauthentic -- yet never-the-less delicious -- Texmex cuisine.
Obviously ISIS is attacking Taco Bell so it can never become the powerhouse depicted by the movie Demolition Man.

ISIS is afraid of having TexMex being the sole food offered at any dining establishment in the near or fictitious future.



Beware the Bell!
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 11:05:28  
People of the future better hope that the Taco Bell diarrhea jokes are just that; jokes.

Otherwise the three seashells are going to be getting a workout.

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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-11-25 11:17:04  
http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aOmMD3N_460sv.mp4
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-25 11:46:18  
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.


There's a lot of really, really terrible things that can be inferred from this information and it's really disheartening to me to think how many are probably true.
Don't forget what happened after 9/11.

Hate crimes skyrocketed against Muslims almost immediately in the US.
Skyrocketed?

Source?

Hate Crimes Against Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs


I appreciate the source, but as the article says...

Quote:
Following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the number of hate crimes directed against Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs escalated dramatically. In 2001, Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs were victimized in nearly five percent of the total number of hate crimes reported that year (481 out of 9,730), a seventeen-fold increase over the prior year.

While an increase of 17 times over the prior year is notable, if that increase then takes you to a whopping 5% of the total number of hate crimes, I would hardly call that "skyrocketing" nor would I call a whole 481 reported incidents in total "skyrocketing".

Just saying
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-11-25 11:49:39  
Valid source provided, nausi tries to diminish it by redefining a word to suit his denial.
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By Jassik 2015-11-25 11:52:08  
It doesn't really matter what you would call skyrocketing, a 17 fold increase in a single year IS skyrocketing. I'd suggest looking at what the remaining 95% are as a frame of reference.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 11:56:49  
While the arbitrary use of the word "skyrocketing" is questionable, to be even with relation to the American population, assuming approximately 5M Muslims in American and 74.5M African Americans, the same year would have required ~7167 hate crimes against blacks, which would have been nearly 75% of hate crimes.

While may be close to the accurate number given the nature of our country and its racial/ethnic makeup*, if you tease that out a little further still, to increase in the same proportion, there would have to have only been 423 hate crimes against blacks in the prior year.

Which is, sadly, in no way accurate.

So while you may dislike the use of the word "skyrocketing" and feel it slightly sensationalist, there was a prominent, statistically-significant increase in the amount of hate crimes versus Muslims in the U.S. following 9/11 for reasons that really aren't very hard to understand.

Scared, ignorant people lash out against something they view as a threat.

*Edit: Also, with the growing number of Hispanics in the U.S. and the ever-present amount of immigrants from various Pacific Rim nations, the remaining 20% (that is, not the 5% toward Muslims, 75% toward blacks) seems insufficient to account for hate crimes toward other ethnicities and religions.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 11:56:58  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Valid source provided, nausi tries to diminish it by redefining a word to suit his denial.
Nausi may be full of ***, but don't make it sound like you don't do the exact same thing when it goes against your argument.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 11:59:47  
~290 million Americans in 2001 and less than 10k hate crimes for the year?

Life is good in America. Hate crimes aren't an epidemic as some people state they are....

If you believe the media, everywhere in the nation there's a hate crime every second.....
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By Jetackuu 2015-11-25 12:00:36  
Ramyrez said: »
People of the future better hope that the Taco Bell diarrhea jokes are just that; jokes.

Otherwise the three seashells are going to be getting a workout.


You have been fined 0 credits for awesomely referencing Demolition Man.
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By Jassik 2015-11-25 12:01:03  
Ramyrez said: »
While the arbitrary use of the word "skyrocketing" is questionable, to be even with relation to the American population, assuming approximately 5M Muslims in American and 74.5M African Americans, the same year would have required ~7167 hate crimes against blacks, which would have been nearly 75% of hate crimes.

While may be close to the accurate number given the nature of our country and its racial/ethnic makeup, if you tease that out a little further still, to increase in the same proportion, there would have to have only been 423 hate crimes against blacks in the prior year.

Which is, sadly, in no way accurate.

So while you may dislike the use of the word "skyrocketing" and feel it slightly sensationalist, there was a prominent, statistically-significant increase in the amount of hate crimes versus Muslims in the U.S. following 9/11 for reasons that really aren't very hard to understand.

Scared, ignorant people lash out against something they view as a threat.

Look at the increase in hate crimes against non-muslim arabics, hindus, etc. Locally, we had an Indian family have rotten beef thrown at their business. That says two things: 1. They knew they were Hindu and 2. They didn't care, it was just an excuse to exercise some racism.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 12:01:11  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
~290 million Americans in 2001 and less than 10k hate crimes for the year?

Life is good in America. Hate crimes aren't an epidemic as some people state they are....

If you believe the media, everywhere in the nation there's a hate crime every second.....

Would it be too existential of me to suggest that all crimes are hate crimes in some fashion, if not necessarily the legally-designated fashion?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 12:03:19  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
~290 million Americans in 2001 and less than 10k hate crimes for the year?

Life is good in America. Hate crimes aren't an epidemic as some people state they are....

If you believe the media, everywhere in the nation there's a hate crime every second.....

Would it be too existential of me to suggest that all crimes are hate crimes in some fashion, if not necessarily the legally-designated fashion?
Then you would have to redefine the current definition of hate crime as "racially-motivated" crimes.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-25 12:05:17  
That's what I meant with the last bit.

Ah well.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-25 12:16:55  
Don't give us the PC *** though. (not attacking you or anything, just a statement)

I mean, everyone knows that hate crime statistics are really racially motivated crimes, not "I hate you, so let me kill you" type crimes.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-25 12:20:06  
Jassik said: »
It doesn't really matter what you would call skyrocketing, a 17 fold increase in a single year IS skyrocketing. I'd suggest looking at what the remaining 95% are as a frame of reference.

No, it isn't, not when the total number of "hate crimes" reported is under 500 or ~5%. That's not even two per day across a country of 300 million. Hardly supportive of the 'hate filled America was out for Muslims' that's floating around here.
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