Random Politics & Religion #00

You can never go wrong with cleavage!

Not always, sometimes women too, lol.

In all seriousness I'll tell a true story.
I used to have a russian cleaning lady.
Not so long ago she couldnt come work for me anymore cause she was going to move. She recommended someone else though, someone she knew from an organisation that does housekeeping services for the Belgian catholic church. She asked me if i had a problem with the new lady being a muslim and wearing a headscarf, tbh I couldnt care less as long they get the job done.

Now this new lady has come cleaning here a couple of times....yet i have never seen her wear her headscarf! Apparently she only wears it when she's cleaning in a catholic church.

My point being, most Muslims are the same like many christians, they say they believe in god X or Y whenever they feel its needed to express their belief, but they are not strictly practicing their belief.

Usually not sometimes.

Look at magazine covers. Want to sell a magazine to men? Put a pretty woman on the cover. Want to sell a magazine to women? Put a pretty woman on the cover.

Sometimes its the same woman. Poses will differ though.

How can you, as a Christian, try to use this as an argument against Islam?

Before you disregard the Old Testament completely, the point is not whether you think its laws apply to you or that Jesus has come to ease these laws (something mentioned in the Quran so we generally believe in it), it's that, as a Christian, you believe that the OT is the word of God. The same God who revealed the New Testemant (who somehow has begotten a son and has a third part called the Holy Spirit). This means that you believe in a God that once prescribed these harsh punishments, yet at the same time, you criticize another religion for having the same punishments prescribed because they're cruel and morally reprehensible.

I wouldn't take charlo's assessment of Islam too seriously.

Or on anything for that matter.

It's a yes or no question.

Personally I would say no to those things, and show mercy instead.

Let's at least wait for Charlo's response.

"How" is not a yes or no question.

Endoq, I'm sorry. I expected such "personally" response since this is usually how it ends when you speak with the average Christian (every Christian has a personal view on what being Christian means and how to interpret the Bible) but Charlo seems to have arrived at the "definitive truth", so I was kinda curious as to how he'd answer this.

You either believe these punishments were once prescribed by the God you believe in or not. If they were, you cannot argue against another religion on the grounds that these very punishments are morally reprehensible.

Uh.. I was talking about administering the punishments.
Proving the origin of those laws is literally like trying to prove God exist. And we know how that argument goes...

Fair enough, even though that was not the subject of my initial post at all.

And if that was your personal opinion, then you should also know that there are strict requirements for these punishments to be administered in Islamic jurisprudence, to the point that sometimes you wonder if they were ever meant to be applied, or rather be thought of as deterrents.

Fixed.

When is the last time a Christian beheaded someone or stoned them to death?

Doesn't Islam say God can hear without ears, God can see without eyes. But then he can't beget a son without having sex?
Doesn't islam say the word created or was the creator of the universe.
Who's the word is Islam. JESUS!
It's funny how you limit his powers.
Does he not have the power to come as spirit, flesh and reside in heaven at the same time?
Because these manifestations each have names they are separate?
Does your arms have seperate identities from your legs?
Or are they not both part of you with different names?
The problem is you limit God by your own imagination.

The Quran does not say Jesus came and eased the laws, what are you talking about.
The Quran states jesus spread the Quran (no evidence of this) then Allah tricked everyone in believing he died, basically deceiving people to believe in Christianity. Then Allah multiplied that deceitful belief as the strongest from then till today. Then have Muslims hate those very people he deceived. For no reason.

I find this comparing to the Old Testament hilarious from Islam. The Quran basically acknowledges every single one of the acts of the Old Testament.

I don't disregard the Old Testament. The laws are still valid as a demonstration of gods morality.

Matthew 5:17-20English Standard Version (ESV)

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

It's the punishments and how those laws are applied that changed because Jesus came.
The punishments were for a time in the world were 'every thought was wicked and evil.'
People burning their babies in sacrifice, raping, murdering, beastiality, etc.
For people who had a mission to for-fill. To keep them from evil. Not only that God didn't force these people, they accepted the contract with God. They witnessed many miracles and believed in afterlife. So death didn't hold the fear. Only pain of death as is quoted in the laws 'for fear.'
Did Abraham fear for his son? No because God had promised his son would be he father of nations, and he believed him. That was his measure of faith.

It's like when you have children growing up. Your morality doesn't change but the punishments change as the child grows and understands.
Islam takes us back to these punishments until the end of times. That the world hasn't and won't change.
The difference is we don't have to obey the laws through harsh punishment anymore, we have a mentor and guide and someone we give our loyalties to willingly in Jesus, because in him God came to us as a servant and equal, proving his love for us by dying for us. God gives us something to grasp and worship in Jesus.
In Islam you can't know God or have such relationship with him.

John 15:13New English Translation (NET Bible)

13 No one has greater love than this—that one lays down his life for his friends.

Then proving he was who he said with his miracles and resurrection.
I believe in a God that loves me and has done all this to have a loving relationship with me.
You believe God has done all this so we simply bow down to him and obey him like a tyrant. Which sounds illogical.
Why give us free will if that is the purpose?
What benefit does that give him if he is the all powerful God you think?
But then Allah does name himself the greatest deceiver after all.

Another good bait and switch though.
Are either of you going to answer the question. Do you believe in these punishments today?

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant, even to the parts in between brackets in my response.

It did.

Nope.

I read the whole of your post, reached this paragraph, and thought: "yes, finally he is starting to address my point".

...nope.

The morality doesn't change, so it's not a morality issue. Thanks for proving my point.

And even if we choose to accept your reasoning for the evolution of the laws, punishments are supposed to get harsher the more you grow up, no the other way round.

Can't you answer without giving a sermon, or going in circles?

Stoning and beheading is very relevant today to the west. If you want and agree with these punishment I suggest you go live in a place with sharia. I'm glad you gloss over it and reveal your position on this issue. WE DO NOT WANT THIS IN THE WEST. It has no place and is against our laws.
A great example of how sharia is incompatable with our laws.

Which parts of the Old Testament does the Quran not acknowledge?

Morality of the Old Testament is not the issue. Thank you for agreeing.

A 20 year old is not under the same restrictions a 6 year old is under, they have more freedom. Government laws are not gods.

/sigh When did this become about applying "Sharia law' in the west? And can't you see the little flag next to my name?

The parts that have been changed.

No, it's about the morality of the God of both the New and Old Testaments.

That's not a good analogy. Children have more restrictions on their actions, but adults face harsher consequences for their actions.

Surprisingly enough, the religion of the offender only really seems to make the record if they are Muslim.
Statistically, this is probably one.
Here's the basis for the assumption.

Past my 4th response to Charlo I realized there was no point in taking anything he says seriously. A lot of what he posts is complete fabrication. He makes FOX news look like the Harvard Business Review.

Don't bother bro, he doesn't actually want to know. He has an agenda that anyone with a basic high school education can see through.

If anyone really wants to know which parts are fabrications they can either ask Zeig or me or they could google it themselves.

This is pretty disturbing (I know it's RT, but still)
Leaked documents claim US police plant evidence on black suspects

This is neither new nor news. It is standard operating procedure for the police. It has been for far longer than I have been alive.

Its nice that they caught an instance of it, it would be nicer to see some cops go to jail and some framed people get out, but somehow I don't think that will happen.

I loled - Kill people who flaunt the Quran.

Lol your the one who brought it up as a parallel why we should accept it in today's world from Islam and sharia.


Lol again your the one who brought it up. This was a response to this ignorant mocking. Why did you even write it if you didn't want to discuss it?



Since my initial post on the subject. Go and check the vids on the last page.
Unless you think I'm trying to warn Muslims in countries already under these laws?
We have 100 sharia courts already in the UK. Muslims are advised to sort legal matters there instead of the lands police, courts.
And there have been protests wanting more powers.
People just need to be informed on what exactly sharia brings.
You both seem to be happy with the laws your both currently under. So I can assume this is the version of sharia you both agree with.


This was specifically in response to the harsh punishments in the Old Testament. Quote or tell me which of these the Quran refutes.
When you try and compare to the OT you ironically doubley convict your own faith. The Quran affirms every one of these punishments or actions.


No it's about the difference in punishments. Which has been addressed. The morality is the same in both, I've already quoted Jesus as stating this, why are you still bringing this up?


I'm refering to gods point of view looking at humans as a father as an analogy. The harsher punishments as an adult don't come from your father do they?

So let me repost this again


Although I think we can all see by your responses you do. Although you feel ashamed to admit it.

As for maldini I've refuted him on multiple occasions now with evidence (which all he can do is call lies, apparently the pew results are fabrication so are a lot of the hadiths and commentary I've quoted and wiki) if you read back. He has reduced himself to mocking and changing the subject. I havnt got time for that.

While I understand Zeig's perspective. One thing I don't understand is how you could possibly make a connection here. This is a mentally disturbed individual whom perpetrated a crime. End of story. What makes you think you could possibly know more than the American police involved in the investigation?

This is what concerns me most. Why has the UK gov't even allowed this to become reality in the 1st place? The American citizens would go ape ***if something like this ever surfaced within our country. At least I hope so.....

17 schools in Nashua, New Hampshire will be closed tomorrow after the school district received detailed threats against students and teachers. Several schools were threatened and as a precaution they will all be closed on Monday. They may be opened again on Tuesday. This is the third district in a week that has received a threat. The schools are working with the police to determine if it's a credible threat.

This is set-up under arbitration laws in the UK.

Basically the same thing that Christian arbitration firms do in the US. Some US firms have used them to settle disputes with employees

As disgusting as it is that we live in a world where this is very much a reality, it could be a lot worse. It could be that there were 17 mass shootings in Nashua instead. And at this point, even if it were based on hearsay or some sort of holiday joke, at least we take threats like this seriously enough to be proactive about it. This scenario beats the hell out of the "Good Guy with a Gun" mentality that many people have started to adopt.