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Random Politics & Religion #00
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-07-17 09:51:32
Are you asserting that all these people committed these atrocities in the name of their christian god?
I would assert that all LGBT hate crime is religion-fueled, whether actively or as a tacit factor in their overt malignancy.
I'd say some of it is simple human fear of the unknown, which is often amplified/coddled by religion.
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 09:53:26
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »I'd say some of it is simple human fear of the unknown, which is often amplified/coddled by religion.
I think that at this point in time -- given that even religionChristianity and Judaism, at least -- gave the silent wink-nod to homosexuality in years, modern religion is very much to blame. It wasn't an "unknown" until religion gave the banhammer to the entire concept of sex for pleasure.
By "modern" I mean, oh, about the past 300 years or so.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-17 09:53:37
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Are you asserting that all these people committed these atrocities in the name of their christian god?
I would assert that all LGBT hate crime is religion-fueled, whether actively or as a tacit factor in their overt malignancy.
I'd say some of it is simple human fear of the unknown, which is often amplified/coddled by religion.
Is there any evidence of this or are you going on your feelz prejudices and bigotry?
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 09:54:50
Is there any evidence of this or are you going on your feelz prejudices and bigotry?
Ragnarok.Nausi
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-17 09:55:00
I mean honestly, would most of you accept and admit that you have many prejudices against Christians and Christianity?
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 09:58:19
I mean honestly, would most of you accept and admit that you have many prejudices against Christians and Christianity?
Oh sure....but I hate almost everyone so... /shrug
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Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-07-17 09:59:05
Army of God
The point being Nausi that you think your religion, or well I should say Christianity as I don't recall if you've ever said what faith you subscribe to, is on the whole good and not bad like those muslim fellas. What you don't seem to understand is its mostly about perspective. All religions seem to fuel some kind of fanaticism whether it be the muslim faith or christianity or judiasm or whatever else. At the heart of each religion it really seems to be a genuine and a good idea but like with all other things humanity gets a hold of it and well everythings up for grabs at that point.
Would you denounce your religion if a group of people started committing acts like this in its name or would you defend it and write them off as fanatics?
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 10:02:45
oh I thought he meant sanctioned by the pope...
/loses the round
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 10:07:44
I mean honestly, would most of you accept and admit that you have many prejudices against Christians and Christianity?
I admit I have negative feelings toward them and eye them with suspicion and disdain.
That probably meets at least a textbook definition of prejudice, so yes, I suppose I would have to agree.
The different is I don't want to deny them their right to be Christian and exist with all the freedoms I have, I just want the freedom to not have them influence my life with their own Christian judgments.
By Jetackuu 2015-07-17 10:09:26
Quote: prej·u·dice
ˈprejədəs/
noun
noun: prejudice; plural noun: prejudices
1.
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
Nope.
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 10:10:20
Army of God
The point being Nausi that you don't think your religion, or well I should say Christianity as I don't recall if you've ever said what faith you subscribe to, is on the whole good and not bad like those muslim fellas. What you don't seem to understand is its mostly about perspective. All religions seem to fuel some kind of fanaticism whether it be the muslim faith or christianity or judiasm or whatever else. At the heart of each religion it really seems to be a genuine and a good idea but like with all other things humanity gets a hold of it and well everythings up for grabs at that point.
Would you denounce your religion if a group of people started committing acts like this in its name or would you defend it and write them off as fanatics?
Also applies to atheists, and it is probably why atheists are so mistrusted, even among other atheists.
Fanaticism of any stripe is ***-all annoying and I am not innocent of getting a little too fervent in religious discussion myself.
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 10:11:18
Quote: prej·u·dice
ˈprejədəs/
noun
noun: prejudice; plural noun: prejudices
1.
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
Nope.
I would actually state that there is some degree of prejudice involved in most of us who view Christianity negatively across the board and consider the good the exception to the rule, as there is also actual experience of many Christian people and organizations doing very good things for people.
VIP
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-17 10:11:59
I mean honestly, would most of you accept and admit that you have many prejudices against Christians and Christianity?
Since people are making judgments based on the religious dogma, and not the person, it's not really a prejudice. I personally don't have a problem with religion, I have a problem with religious activism. Believe whatever makes you happy, but keep it out of legislation and public education.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 10:13:59
I mean honestly, would most of you accept and admit that you have many prejudices against Christians and Christianity?
Honest question, do you think you have prejudices against LGTB, Islam, Mexicans, Immigrants, Obama, Black people?
let's get deeper into this question because I think what we are looking for is more prejudiced to think ill of them...
I'm always shocked when gay men aren't snappy dressers which is prejudiced in a way but probably not the one you are looking for
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 10:16:05
I mean honestly, would most of you accept and admit that you have many prejudices against Christians and Christianity?
Since people are making judgments based on the religious dogma, and not the person, it's not really a prejudice. I personally don't have a problem with religion, I have a problem with religious activism. Believe whatever makes you happy, but keep it out of legislation and public education.
I guess this is true enough, but I know for me, if someone describes themselves and "Christian" is in the first 10 words they use, I've already judged them as someone who I'm going to have issues with because if they're addressing their religion that fast then it's going to be involved in every. damn. conversation. "I did this with Church! My pastor said this! I just put my faith in Jesus and hoped for the best! Say some prayers for my uncle going into surgery!"
This is my personal experience and I'm not going to tell you every single devout Christian is like that, but it does put me in a position where I just assume the worst and wait for someone to prove to me otherwise, and that's wrong.
Pragmatic, to a point. But still wrong.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-17 10:17:39
I mean honestly, would most of you accept and admit that you have many prejudices against Christians and Christianity? I do not have any prejudice.
I consider you solely based on what you say, with the assumption that you're being genuine when you speak.
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 10:17:48
I'm always shocked when gay men aren't snappy dressers which is prejudiced in a way but probably not the one you are looking for
I'm always shockeddisappointed when lesbians aren't smokin' hot.
Because as soon as I find out, I'm thinking about it.
It's just instinctual and I try to, you know, not do that.
But I'm just not that good of a person.
I blame the internet.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-07-17 10:19:24
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 10:20:26
Well, Al Gore invented it.
So I think it's fairly obvious who is really to blame.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-07-17 10:21:20
Al Gore can be blamed or given credit for a few things, the internet is not one of those things.
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 10:22:09
Al Gore can be blamed or given credit for a few things, the internet is not one of those things. 
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 10:29:24
Or when a Korean is bad at video games!
My boss hired a girl that he thought was asian and would therefore (stereotypical) be good in math. In a karmic/alanis morrisette ironic twist it turned out she was a stereotypical eskimo in that she was a raging alcoholic....
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 10:36:01
turned out she was a stereotypical eskimo in that she was a raging alcoholic....
Give her a break. She was probably also raped by her uncle.
 Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-17 10:57:32
News here said the shooter was someone who admired ISIS "efforts". So I guess it's an act of idolatry.
Which is also what I've been thinking is one of the most dangerous things born from ISIS. Lot of young muslims around the world with bitter lives who see these guys as someone to emulate. One of the things IS has been doing really well is public propaganda, something the West is failing to counter-act very well. Which is odd because we (the west) have been doing that -and doing it well towards our enemies and citizens- for decades.
Maybe different approaches are called for. Mil and I read an article few days ago about de-radicalizing a teenager in Denmark. I'm not sure this would work in the US because of how combative police and civilian interactions are, but maybe it would work in other parts of Europe and maybe Canada.
How I was de-radicalized
 Ragnarok.Zeig
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1604
By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-07-17 11:13:58
Back-read and I'm not really sure what point Nausi is trying to get across. Islam incites violence while Christianity doesn't? So we should be harsher on them in the media(ironic)?
Any kind of dogma can be used to incite violence amongst its followers against their "adversaries". Your point is probably "well but Islam does more so than others!" but then, as Sparth pointed, you're only doing extremists a huge service by perpetuating the narrative that this is how a "true", or "devout" Muslim be: a delusional mass-murder whose main mission on Earth is to take on the infidels in the name of Allah...which doesn't really help any efforts of reform.
I came across this today, and I wonder what you think about it:
Christian mob attacks Mulsims during Eid prayer in Indonesia
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Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-17 11:16:08
If it's not in USA it doesn't count!!
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 11:22:58
One of the things IS has been doing really well is public propaganda,
The problem with that I have is, what exactly is their propaganda saying that makes anything they're doing not seem like inhumane terrorism?
Or are they doing the thing that the Central/South American cartels/North Korea/etc. do where they supply food and medicine to the people they're terrorizing and blaming the violence on "the enemy"?
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 11:25:30
If it's not in USA it doesn't count!!
yeah the process in which the goalposts move further away is fully automated now.... so don't even try it!
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