Random Politics & Religion #00

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フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » Random Politics & Religion #00
Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-24 10:22:03  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I can see how reality would get in the way of the party with pipe dream utopian ideals.

Why so pessimistic? Most of the reasons given as obstacles to progress are pretty big sins: greed, jealousy, etc. I don't expect Utopia, but this place could certainly get a ***load better than is.

Why so pessimistic? Because most of the "progress" is rooted in giving more money and more power to an organization that has proven time and time again that it doesn't know how to properly manage either one. You can pretend all you want that the government has our best interests in mind, but reality says otherwise.

Where is the fault in comprehension you think?

Not giving capitalism it's due credit for being the sole reason for bringing almost everyone on the planet out of poverty.

or

Thinking the US system which isn't capitalism is actually capitalism?

Placing the fault is difficult, but in general I just attribute it to misplaced faith in government. Yes, the government does good things that everyone likes to point whenever this point is brought up (national parks, roads, etc.), but the waste, bloat, and overall corruption is often overlooked for the sake of optimism. What the government needs is liposuction, and we're giving it overpriced band-aids instead.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 10:22:57  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I can see how reality would get in the way of the party with pipe dream utopian ideals.

Why so pessimistic? Most of the reasons given as obstacles to progress are pretty big sins: greed, jealousy, etc. I don't expect Utopia, but this place could certainly get a ***load better than is.

Why so pessimistic? Because most of the "progress" is rooted in giving more money and more power to an organization that has proven time and time again that it doesn't know how to properly manage either one. You can pretend all you want that the government has our best interests in mind, but reality says otherwise.

I didn't say anything about big government. I'm talking progress like equality, clean energy, doing away with many terrible communicable diseases, etc. A lot of the roadblocks in making the lives of the masses better aren't political in nature, they're made political to serve the interests of the people who profit off them.
 
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By 2015-09-24 10:43:48
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-09-24 10:44:55  
Answering the real questions with clarity.
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By fonewear 2015-09-24 10:51:04  
The way to get out of poverty is to stop being poor it's really that simple people !
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-24 10:52:02  
fonewear said: »
The way to get out of poverty is to stop being poor it's really that simple people !

Just grab oneself by the bootstraps eh? Why didn't they think of that?

Just like slaves should have just run away, eh?
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By fonewear 2015-09-24 10:52:19  
Josiahkf said: »

The American dream is to not wake up !
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By fonewear 2015-09-24 10:54:13  
Jetackuu said: »
fonewear said: »
The way to get out of poverty is to stop being poor it's really that simple people !

Just grab oneself by the bootstraps eh? Why didn't they think of that?

Just like slaves should have just run away, eh?

I don't remember poor people wearing boots !
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By fonewear 2015-09-24 10:55:02  
Don't worry the Pope will take care of all the poor people. Just convert to Catholicism.
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By fonewear 2015-09-24 11:02:08  
The Pope told me he used up all his English and that Olive Garden is not truly authentic Italian cuisine !
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 11:03:26  
fonewear said: »
Olive Garden is not truly authentic Italian cuisine
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-09-24 11:03:53  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Answering the real questions with clarity.

Thats how he answers all of the questions, its what stirred up the Muslim talk.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:07:39  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Answering the real questions with clarity.

Thats how he answers all of the questions, its what stirred up the Muslim talk.

The way he answers some questions is great. Others he invokes Miss South Carolina.
 
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By 2015-09-24 12:34:15
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-24 12:37:38  
Drama Torama said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Those countries where poverty is rampant also don't have capitalistic economic systems.

My argument was completely with the "everyone on the planet" statement, which was just pants-on-head idiocy. Large swaths of the world are still very, very poor.

The economic systems of many of those countries are hobbled by the fact that the rule of law is often specious at best, which undermines any real economic activity; hard/impossible to enforce contracts, etc

First, I qualified everyone with "almost" which does clue you into a different group of people than "everyone".

Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
reason for bringing almost everyone on the planet out of poverty

Secondly I more meant it as those brought out of poverty have done so via capitalism. Obviously capitalism isn't everywhere, therefore everyone isn't out of poverty.

The natural state of human existence is tyranny, poverty, and oppression. We have existed in that state for millennia. It is only when we adopted capitalism that we began to change that.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-24 12:40:52  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I can see how reality would get in the way of the party with pipe dream utopian ideals.

Why so pessimistic? Most of the reasons given as obstacles to progress are pretty big sins: greed, jealousy, etc. I don't expect Utopia, but this place could certainly get a ***load better than is.

Why so pessimistic? Because most of the "progress" is rooted in giving more money and more power to an organization that has proven time and time again that it doesn't know how to properly manage either one. You can pretend all you want that the government has our best interests in mind, but reality says otherwise.

Where is the fault in comprehension you think?

Not giving capitalism it's due credit for being the sole reason for bringing almost everyone on the planet out of poverty.

or

Thinking the US system which isn't capitalism is actually capitalism?

Placing the fault is difficult, but in general I just attribute it to misplaced faith in government. Yes, the government does good things that everyone likes to point whenever this point is brought up (national parks, roads, etc.), but the waste, bloat, and overall corruption is often overlooked for the sake of optimism. What the government needs is liposuction, and we're giving it overpriced band-aids instead.

It's more than that though, there's a whole chorus of people who don't recognize that having bloated governments jump into the markets makes them less capitalistic. This is largely because the voice pointing it out is actively censored and discredited.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:46:04  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
First, I qualified everyone with "almost" which does clue you into a different group of people than "everyone".

It's not even close to almost, though. Over 3 billion people live in true poverty, most without electricity or running water. That's at minimum 25% of the world's population living in near middle ages conditions. Whether there is a correlation or causal relationship between capitalism and prosperity is almost impossible to determine. There aren't really any capitalist countries on earth, and of the ones that could be considered capitalism or not capitalism, the sample size is incredibly small and subject to an unbelievable number of variables.
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-24 12:49:49  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The natural state of human existence is tyranny, poverty, and oppression. We have existed in that state for millennia. It is only when we adopted capitalism that we began to change that.
I can see why we don't agree if you honestly believe that.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-24 12:58:06  
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The natural state of human existence is tyranny, poverty, and oppression. We have existed in that state for millennia. It is only when we adopted capitalism that we began to change that.
I can see why we don't agree if you honestly believe that.

Yeah people really thrived during the eras of mercantilism and feudalism.

And those soviets really thrived after communism too.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 13:00:57  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The natural state of human existence is tyranny, poverty, and oppression. We have existed in that state for millennia. It is only when we adopted capitalism that we began to change that.
I can see why we don't agree if you honestly believe that.

Yeah people really thrived during the eras of mercantilism and feudalism.
Why do you think they want to revert back to feudalism and call it "progression"?
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-24 13:03:40  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The natural state of human existence is tyranny, poverty, and oppression. We have existed in that state for millennia. It is only when we adopted capitalism that we began to change that.
I can see why we don't agree if you honestly believe that.

Yeah people really thrived during the eras of mercantilism and feudalism.
Why do you think they want to revert back to feudalism and call it "progression"?
You're full of zingers today!
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 13:14:18  
In feminist news:

Hillary Clinton Tells Lena Dunham She’s ‘Puzzled’ by Women Who Aren’t Feminists

Quote:
Hillary Clinton wants women to wear the feminism label with a badge of honor.

In an interview with Lena Dunham, the presidential contender said she’s “puzzled” by women who refuse to identify as feminists, although they fit the definition and support gender equality.

“I’m always a little bit puzzled when any woman of whatever age, but particularly a young woman, says something like, ‘Well, I believe in equal rights, but I’m not a feminist.’ Well, a feminist is by definition someone who believes in equal rights,” Clinton said during an interview for Dunham’s new site, LennyLetter.com

Politico released an exclusive preview of the interview, which will be posted on Dunham’s online digital newsletter on Sept. 29. Dunham co-created LennyLetter with “Girls” executive producer Jennifer Konner.

“I’m hoping that people will not be afraid to say, ‘That doesn’t mean you hate men,’” Clinton added. It doesn’t mean you want to separate out the world, so you’re not a part of ordinary life — that’s not what it means at all!” Clinton said. “It just means that we believe that women have the same rights as men, politically, culturally, socially, economically.”

I will refrain from commenting on this, but I do think this is interesting to say the least.
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-24 13:16:12  
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The natural state of human existence is tyranny, poverty, and oppression. We have existed in that state for millennia. It is only when we adopted capitalism that we began to change that.
I can see why we don't agree if you honestly believe that.

Yeah people really thrived during the eras of mercantilism and feudalism.

And those soviets really thrived after communism too.
*sigh*
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-09-24 13:17:04  
That is because when the movement was born there were no other connotations to it. So yes, a woman believing in equal rights would be feminist.

The fact that the concept was recently hijacked by misandrists is unfortunate, but doesn't change the meaning of feminism. Have you noticed how we always say "neo-feminism" or "tumblr feminism"?
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 13:20:51  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
That is because when the movement was born there were no other connotations to it. So yes, a woman believing in equal rights would be feminist.

The fact that the concept was recently hijacked by misandrists is unfortunate, but doesn't change the meaning of feminism. Have you noticed how we always say "neo-feminism" or "tumblr feminism"?
I'm not against the whole "label women as feminists" concept. And I know the rabblerousers are generally at the fringe of the ideology.

Which is why I am refraining comment on this. I just posted this because I thought it was interesting to say the least.

Also, for Fone.
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-24 13:21:41  
See "Big Red" aka "Chanty Binx"



ugh!
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By fonewear 2015-09-24 13:33:15  
I don't hate men...(I just hate myself) said every feminist ever.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-24 13:34:12  
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The natural state of human existence is tyranny, poverty, and oppression. We have existed in that state for millennia. It is only when we adopted capitalism that we began to change that.
I can see why we don't agree if you honestly believe that.

Yeah people really thrived during the eras of mercantilism and feudalism.

And those soviets really thrived after communism too.
*sigh*

I can feel the contempt all the way here on the other side of the tubes.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-09-24 13:35:31  
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By fonewear 2015-09-24 13:42:44  
This is what I imagine England looks like:

Actually I'll end up being like this drunken bum some day as well !
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